ordnance Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: What sort of society allows innocent people to fear, be intimidated by or be afraid of reprisals from 'a criminal gang' when they are the innocent victims of a criminal act?.......the only answer is to "up the stakes" start by reintroducing corporal and capital punishment.......plus violent criminals serve the full sentence given.....no early release no parole! That will never happen, so its sort of pointless talking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Reading some of the updated reports on the incident it would appear that PC Andrew Harper was hit by a pursuing police vehicle, does that mean that if cause of death was a result of being hit by the police vehicle they may get off with just a charge of attempted burglary, or at worst involuntary manslaughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Lets hope that a backlash from this incident will lead to some clamp down on the, "do what they likeys". Intimidation fears from these people are very real, its how they avoid prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ordnance said: That will never happen, so its sort of pointless talking about it. It's not "sort of pointless" at all! If no one talks about it, and we let the limp PC snowflakes continue to control society.....it certainly won't! The police have revealed that the 10 suspects in the murder of PC Harper were all arrested at the council run Caravan Park they are currently forensically examining! They have applied and been granted a 36hr extension to keep them in custody! Edited August 17, 2019 by panoma1 Update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 Realistically it wouldn’t have helped in this case being armed. I’m not sure what he was doing being in the way but could he have been deploying a stinger? The travelling community don’t respect anybody and it’s nice to see them getting some well deserved flack in this instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Cranfield said: Lets hope that a backlash from this incident will lead to some clamp down on the, "do what they likeys". Intimidation fears from these people are very real, its how they avoid prosecution. Yep. Having personally very closely witnessed almost 60 years of so called gypsy fairs, I can vouch for the intimidation and menaces. It is indeed very real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, al4x said: Realistically it wouldn’t have helped in this case being armed. I’m not sure what he was doing being in the way but could he have been deploying a stinger? The travelling community don’t respect anybody and it’s nice to see them getting some well deserved flack in this instance are you sure as they are very religious catholic people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, andrewluke said: are you sure as they are very religious catholic people Would you happen to be a snowflake? Or was that comment tongue in cheek which I hope it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, Good shot? said: Would you happen to be a snowflake? Or was that comment tongue in cheek which I hope it was. what do you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 3 hours ago, al4x said: Realistically it wouldn’t have helped in this case being armed. I’m not sure what he was doing being in the way but could he have been deploying a stinger? The travelling community don’t respect anybody and it’s nice to see them getting some well deserved flack in this instance No and they won't help in every case, the idea is its a option when it could help a option that they don't have at this time. For example when a officer was stabled to death outside parliament, when a senior officer was hiding in his car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good shot? Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 minute ago, andrewluke said: what do you think It's more relevant what you think.😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Cranfield said: Lets hope that a backlash from this incident will lead to some clamp down on the, "do what they likeys". Intimidation fears from these people are very real, its how they avoid prosecution. You know it won't the police government etc wouldn't want to look raciest.,they will continue to do what they want with no fear of the police or any other authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, ordnance said: You know it won't the police government etc wouldn't want to look raciest.,they will continue to do what they want with no fear of the police or any other authority. And that may well spawn more Tony Martins! If society continues to sacrifice law and order and protecting the public on the alter of what is and what is not politically correct, then incidents of people taking the law into their own hands can only increase! The day may not be too far away where victims will be forced to combat violence against them, their family and their property, by not waiting in vain for the police to protect them, or by turning the other cheek, but by acting themselves, employing more violence against the perpetrator, than that which the perpetrator may use against you!....then we can watch the **** will really hit the proverbial fan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 17, 2019 Report Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, panoma1 said: And that may well spawn more Tony Martins! If society continues to sacrifice law and order and protecting the public on the alter of what is and what is not politically correct, then incidents of people taking the law into their own hands can only increase! The day may not be too far away where victims will be forced to combat violence against them, their family and their property, by not waiting in vain for the police to protect them, or by turning the other cheek, but by acting themselves, employing more violence against the perpetrator, than that which the perpetrator may use against you!....then we can watch the **** will really hit the proverbial fan! That won't happen either, things will just go on the way they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 21 hours ago, panoma1 said: And that may well spawn more Tony Martins! Socially awkward loners, that think it is ok to take potshots at people scrumping apples, that keep illegal weapons at home and are unrepentant for taking the lives of someone running away? Nah don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 21 hours ago, ordnance said: That won't happen either, things will just go on the way they are. Yep, for now anyhow, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 35 minutes ago, henry d said: Socially awkward loners, that think it is ok to take potshots at people scrumping apples, that keep illegal weapons at home and are unrepentant for taking the lives of someone running away? Nah don't think so. No blame attached to the criminals who burgle people's homes and provoke such reactions then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: No blame attached to the criminals who burgle people's homes and provoke such reactions then? Not until a prominent "snowflake" gets publicly turned over big time by the criminals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, panoma1 said: No blame attached to the criminals who burgle people's homes and provoke such reactions then? So it is ok to shoot at people scrumping apples and running off as well as burglars? Does your FEO/doctor/countersignatory know your thoughts on this? Your attitude seems to be that these things are the correct thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, henry d said: So it is ok to shoot at people scrumping apples and running off as well as burglars? Does your FEO/doctor/countersignatory know your thoughts on this? Your attitude seems to be that these things are the correct thing to do. Does your psychiatrist know why you are a regular apologist for the perpetrators of crime..........and show no support for the victims? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 18, 2019 Report Share Posted August 18, 2019 Quote Does your psychiatrist know why you are a regular apologist for the perpetrators of crime..........and show no support for the victims? Just because someone is a victim of crime, does not give them the right to take the law into their own hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 hours ago, ordnance said: Just because someone is a victim of crime, does not give them the right to take the law into their own hands. Perhaps not, but perfectly understandable in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 hours ago, ordnance said: Just because someone is a victim of crime, does not give them the right to take the law into their own hands. But it does give them the right of self defence when under threat.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 hours ago, ordnance said: Just because someone is a victim of crime, does not give them the right to take the law into their own hands. I think you need to add the following to your statement after the comma! "That the Police have failed to deal with appropriately" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartyboy Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, mel b3 said: But it does give them the right of self defence when under threat.👍 Two things to remember with any form of self defence: is it necessary and is it proportionate to the threat? Tony Martins actions were not proportionate as the level of violence he offered, far exceeded what was shown towards him. It was not necessary either as, at the time of shooting, the 'victim' was trying to escape with his back to Martin. Thats the simple matter of facts. However, I can sympathise with him. And none of us where there, so cant comment on whether he genuinely believed he was left with no other option but to fire that gun to save his own life. Or if he fired that gun out of anger and frustration or as punishment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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