TRINITY Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Retsdon said: How so? Have not got a specific link but many slots on national news with French foreign minister openly stating this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) That's what I thought. Which just goes to show that you can't trust the national media to report things correctly. With all their talks of 'bloodbath' and 'ripping each other apart', etc, etc, they're trying to sell newspapers, not to report accurately. What Le Drian actually said was - Je pense que sur les questions commerciales ou sur le dispositif de relations futures, que l'on va engager, on va s'étriper pas mal. Mais ça fait partie de la négociation, chacun va défendre ses intérêts. But instead of translating correctly, the media (deliberately?) jumped on the colloquial usage of 's'etriper' which, while the verb literally means to eviscerate, when it's used in the context of bargaining actually means 'indulge in hard or difficult haggling' But of course 'hard negotiations' doesn't sell newsprint or generate comments anything like as effectively as 'bloodbath'! Anyway, the correct translation should have been . 'Je pense que sur les questions commerciales I think that about trade questions,ou sur le dispositif de relations futures or about the framework of future relations, que l'on va engager, which we are going to start debating, on va s'étriper pas mal. we're going to have fairly tough discussions. Mais ça fait partie de la négociation, But it's part of the negotiation, chacun va défendre ses intérêts. everybody will defend his interests.' Hardly newsworthy - so they just made stuff up instead and printed it. And it's not right. No matter what one's view of Brexit is, the process is not served by a media that disseminates what is basically emotive fiction in order to stir up unnecessary controversy. Edited February 18, 2020 by Retsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 And perhaps some of the people in this current 'Conservative' party should listen to the man who many regard as having been the founding thinker of modern conservatism. In his 'Reflections', Edmund Burke said, 'In states there are often some obscure and almost latent causes, things which appear at first view of little moment, on which a very great part of its prosperity or adversity may most essentially depend. The science of government being therefore so practical in itself and intended for such practical purposes—a matter which requires experience, and even more experience than any person can gain in his whole life, however sagacious and observing he may be—it is with infinite caution that any man ought to venture upon pulling down an edifice which has answered in any tolerable degree for ages the common purposes of society, or on building it up again without having models and patterns of approved utility before his eyes.' But of course, this lot are not Conservatives, or in fact political thinkers of any kind. They're chancers and spivs, with the odd crackpot thrown into the mix, and they're going to do terrible harm to the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted February 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Edmund Burke said Edward Gibbon said of Burke "the most eloquent and rational madman that I ever knew" Samuel Johnson when considering Burke "found him a dishonest politician" I have not read him myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRINITY Posted February 18, 2020 Report Share Posted February 18, 2020 The worlds largest concentration of spivs and chancers are the eu politicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) For no reason other than it made me start to cry then laugh, I present.... https://youtu.be/Zqf_RnEK4uE ”turning our back on the world” - god, I’m depressed. Edited February 19, 2020 by SpringDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, SpringDon said: For no reason other than it made me start to cry then laugh, I present.... https://youtu.be/Zqf_RnEK4uE ”turning our back on the world” - god, I’m depressed. Link wasn't working She speaks of all the hate, but is oblivious to all the hate that she is filled with And when will these idiots learn, that is is the EU we have left, NOT Europe, unless there is a mjor continental shift, we will always be in Europe!!! Edited February 19, 2020 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 An example of why young people with little or no experience of life......shouldn’t have the vote......bleating that all the over 75’s with no future, ganged up on us young people! What a dipstick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Yes but I know somebody who thinks she wont 2 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Link wasn't working She speaks of all the hate, but is obvious to all the hate that she is filled with And when will these idiots learn, that is is the EU we have left, NOT Europe, unless there is a mjor continental shift, we will always be in Europe!!! She is a stooge, nobody organises their thoughts that clearly speaking off the cuff when a camera is stuck in their face. Fake interview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 hours ago, Retsdon said: <SNIP> No matter what one's view of Brexit is, the process is not served by a media that disseminates what is basically emotive fiction in order to stir up unnecessary controversy. I’ve removed the bulk of your quote to avoid duplication. Never a truer word spoken on this or any other thread. It is an issue that is not reserved to the media either, the profligacy of opinion dressed up as fact, mis-quotes, comments out of context, etc is overwhelming and even when genuine facts are presented they are lost in the mire. No matter which side of the debate is being favoured the same holds true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 15/02/2020 at 23:49, Raja Clavata said: Would you care to highlight a positive of Brexit thus far? Yes, we are free of all those useless free loaders in Brussels on their trumped up wages and crazy pensions ALL out of the citizens pockets. Need more ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 15/02/2020 at 23:49, Raja Clavata said: Would you care to highlight a positive of Brexit thus far? To be honest, I can't see a single negative. What's not good about it? As long as we don't get locked into some stupid exit deal that ties our hands forever and a day its all going really well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Vince Green said: its all going really well Haven't left yet........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 49 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Haven't left yet........ We've left. Didn't you see them removing our flag from the EU building? What remains is to negotiate our future relationship. As things stand it doesn't appear Boris and David Frost will be giving up anything that ties us to the EU in any significant way. If that results in WTO terms for trade, so be it. If it results in increased prices, so be it. I knew it was a possibility when I ticked Leave on the ballot. Not saying that as someone who is comfortably well off either. It may well hurt me financially but it's pain I'm willing to suffer for the UK to be a free and sovereign nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said: We've left. Didn't you see them removing our flag from the EU building? What remains is to negotiate our future relationship. As things stand it doesn't appear Boris and David Frost will be giving up anything that ties us to the EU in any significant way. If that results in WTO terms for trade, so be it. If it results in increased prices, so be it. I knew it was a possibility when I ticked Leave on the ballot. Not saying that as someone who is comfortably well off either. It may well hurt me financially but it's pain I'm willing to suffer for the UK to be a free and sovereign nation. An unfortunate word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger-Mouse Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: An unfortunate word! lol Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said: Didn't you see them removing our flag from the EU building? And that's about the extent of it so far. For all practical trading purposes the UK is still in the EU. 42 minutes ago, Mr_Nobody said: If that results in WTO terms for trade, so be it. If it results in increased prices, ... If the UK leaves without any kind of arrangement at all, increased prices are going to be the least of anyone's worries. Which one of the following do you think we should join? Of should we go it alone like Mauritania? Trade bloc Population Gross domestic product (USD) Members 2006 2007 growth per capita Economic and monetary unions EMU 324,879,195 10,685,946,928,310 12,225,304,229,686 14.41% 37,630 17[show] OECS 593,905 3,752,679,562 3,998,281,731 6.54% 6,732 6[show] OII 504,476 12,264,278,329 14,165,953,200 15.51% 28,081 3[show] CCCM 6,418,417 39,616,485,623 43,967,600,765 10.98% 6,850 12[show] EEA 499,620,521 14,924,076,504,592 17,186,876,431,709 15.16% 34,400 30[show] Customs and monetary unions CEMAC 39,278,645 51,265,460,685 58,519,380,755 14.15% 1,490 6[show] UEMOA 90,299,945 50,395,629,494 58,453,871,283 15.99% 647 8[show] Customs unions CAN 96,924,486 281,269,141,372 334,172,968,648 18.81% 3,448 4[show] EAC 127,107,838 49,882,030,443 61,345,180,041 22.98% 483 5[show] EUCU 574,602,745 15,331,827,900,202 17,679,376,474,719 15.31% 30,768 33[show] GCC 36,154,528 724,460,151,595 802,641,302,477 10.79% 22,200 6[show] MERCOSUR 271,304,946 1,517,510,000,000 1,886,817,000,000 12.44% 9,757 5[show] SACU 58,000,000 1,499,811,549,187 1,848,337,158,281 23.24% 6,885 5[show] Preferential trade areas and Free trade areas AANZFTA-ASEAN+3 2,085,858,841 10,216,029,899,764 11,323,947,181,804 10.84% 5,429 15[show] ALADI 499,807,662 2,823,198,095,131 3,292,088,771,480 16.61% 6,587 12[show] AFTZ 553,915,405 643,541,709,413 739,927,625,273 14.98% 1,336 26[show] APTA 2,714,464,027 4,868,614,302,744 5,828,692,637,764 19.72% 2,147 6[show] CARIFORUM-EUCU-OCTs 592,083,950 15,437,771,092,522 17,798,283,524,961 15.29% 30,060 67[show] CACM 37,388,063 87,209,524,889 97,718,800,794 12.05% 2,614 5[show] CEFTA 27,968,711 110,263,802,023 135,404,501,031 22.80% 4,841 8[show] CISFTA 272,897,834 1,271,909,586,018 1,661,429,920,721 30.62% 6,088 11[show] DR-CAFTA-US 356,964,477 13,345,469,865,037 14,008,686,684,089 4.97% 39,244 7[show] ECOWAS 283,096,250 215,999,071,943 255,784,634,128 18.42% 904 15[show] EFTA-SACU 68,199,991 1,021,509,931,918 1,139,385,636,888 11.54% 16,707 9[show] EAEC 207,033,990 1,125,634,333,117 1,465,256,182,498 30.17% 7,077 6[show] NAFTA 449,227,672 15,337,094,304,218 16,189,097,801,318 5.56% 36,038 3[show] TPP 25,639,622 401,810,366,865 468,101,167,294 16.50% 18,257 4[show] SAARC 1,567,187,373 1,162,684,650,544 1,428,392,756,312 22.85% 911 8[show] SPARTECA 35,079,659 918,557,785,031 1,102,745,750,172 20.05% 31,435 21[show] Pacific Alliance 218,649,115 1,371,197,216,140 1,525,825,175,045 11.28% 6,978 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Which one of the following do you think we should join? We can join whatever we like now, as a true sovereign nation. Try doing that in the EU BTW those stats are REALLY old..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Moan, moan on. Sung to the tune of the Floaters and Float on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Retsdon said: And that's about the extent of it so far. For all practical trading purposes the UK is still in the EU. If the UK leaves without any kind of arrangement at all, increased prices are going to be the least of anyone's worries. Which one of the following do you think we should join? Of should we go it alone like Mauritania? Trade bloc Population Gross domestic product (USD) Members 2006 2007 growth per capita Economic and monetary unions EMU 324,879,195 10,685,946,928,310 12,225,304,229,686 14.41% 37,630 17[show] OECS 593,905 3,752,679,562 3,998,281,731 6.54% 6,732 6[show] OII 504,476 12,264,278,329 14,165,953,200 15.51% 28,081 3[show] CCCM 6,418,417 39,616,485,623 43,967,600,765 10.98% 6,850 12[show] EEA 499,620,521 14,924,076,504,592 17,186,876,431,709 15.16% 34,400 30[show] Customs and monetary unions CEMAC 39,278,645 51,265,460,685 58,519,380,755 14.15% 1,490 6[show] UEMOA 90,299,945 50,395,629,494 58,453,871,283 15.99% 647 8[show] Customs unions CAN 96,924,486 281,269,141,372 334,172,968,648 18.81% 3,448 4[show] EAC 127,107,838 49,882,030,443 61,345,180,041 22.98% 483 5[show] EUCU 574,602,745 15,331,827,900,202 17,679,376,474,719 15.31% 30,768 33[show] GCC 36,154,528 724,460,151,595 802,641,302,477 10.79% 22,200 6[show] MERCOSUR 271,304,946 1,517,510,000,000 1,886,817,000,000 12.44% 9,757 5[show] SACU 58,000,000 1,499,811,549,187 1,848,337,158,281 23.24% 6,885 5[show] Preferential trade areas and Free trade areas AANZFTA-ASEAN+3 2,085,858,841 10,216,029,899,764 11,323,947,181,804 10.84% 5,429 15[show] ALADI 499,807,662 2,823,198,095,131 3,292,088,771,480 16.61% 6,587 12[show] AFTZ 553,915,405 643,541,709,413 739,927,625,273 14.98% 1,336 26[show] APTA 2,714,464,027 4,868,614,302,744 5,828,692,637,764 19.72% 2,147 6[show] CARIFORUM-EUCU-OCTs 592,083,950 15,437,771,092,522 17,798,283,524,961 15.29% 30,060 67[show] CACM 37,388,063 87,209,524,889 97,718,800,794 12.05% 2,614 5[show] CEFTA 27,968,711 110,263,802,023 135,404,501,031 22.80% 4,841 8[show] CISFTA 272,897,834 1,271,909,586,018 1,661,429,920,721 30.62% 6,088 11[show] DR-CAFTA-US 356,964,477 13,345,469,865,037 14,008,686,684,089 4.97% 39,244 7[show] ECOWAS 283,096,250 215,999,071,943 255,784,634,128 18.42% 904 15[show] EFTA-SACU 68,199,991 1,021,509,931,918 1,139,385,636,888 11.54% 16,707 9[show] EAEC 207,033,990 1,125,634,333,117 1,465,256,182,498 30.17% 7,077 6[show] NAFTA 449,227,672 15,337,094,304,218 16,189,097,801,318 5.56% 36,038 3[show] TPP 25,639,622 401,810,366,865 468,101,167,294 16.50% 18,257 4[show] SAARC 1,567,187,373 1,162,684,650,544 1,428,392,756,312 22.85% 911 8[show] SPARTECA 35,079,659 918,557,785,031 1,102,745,750,172 20.05% 31,435 21[show] Pacific Alliance 218,649,115 1,371,197,216,140 1,525,825,175,045 11.28% 6,978 4 Not sure what that table is for other than market populations. The growth figures are worthless since the following year, all economies shrank. The eu is now around 2004 levels. As you pointed out, we haven’t left yet. Leaving on wto terms would mean a drop in the price of nearly all imports. And since we run a trade deficit, I imagine any of those unions would welcome another dumping ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: We can join whatever we like now, Like we can build whatever ships we like on the Clyde. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Your people have got possession and complete control of the ball for the next 4+ years. Let's see what they do with it. The only caveat is that if it all goes pear-shaped, let's not have any shifting of the blame. At least have the courage to own the consequences of your actions. It won't be like that though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Like we can build whatever ships we like on the Clyde. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Your people have got possession and complete control of the ball for the next 4+ years. Let's see what they do with it. The only caveat is that if it all goes pear-shaped, let's not have any shifting of the blame. At least have the courage to own the consequences of your actions. It won't be like that though..... Oh that's what you are concerned about, shame the remoaners have been blaming those of us with the cahoonas to quit since the referendum. Go sit in your kitchen and have another brandy, let those of us who are actually involved get on with making OUR country GREAT again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Like we can build whatever ships we like on the Clyde. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Your people have got possession and complete control of the ball for the next 4+ years. Let's see what they do with it. The only caveat is that if it all goes pear-shaped, let's not have any shifting of the blame. At least have the courage to own the consequences of your actions. It won't be like that though..... So who are “your” people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: with making OUR country GREAT again! I thought that was Trump's? But these little slogans they dream up are marvellously catchy. 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: So who are “your” people? This Conservative government. Edited February 19, 2020 by Retsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Retsdon said: I thought that was Trump's? But these little slogans they dream up are marvelously catchy... Yes they are aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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