BREXIT

[Mice!]

27 minutes ago, oowee said:

Strangely enough I was just thinking this morning how in so many ways Scotland is showing England the way forward. 

I'm guessing you just mean on alcohol?

[JohnfromUK]

Despite being in "The Mail", This is quite illuminating; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7510479/SIR-ROBBIE-GIBB-wheres-outrage-Brexiteers-demonised.html

It was part of a wider look at the 'threatening language' used by various MPs here; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7509345/When-comes-abuse-heres-proof-Labour-cohorts-bad-else.html

Edited September 27, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[Scully]

9 hours ago, henry d said:

Strangely the reverse has been proven true here in Scotland with minimum pricing for alcohol and a drop in alcohol sales.

I’m not sure I follow the logic as it relates to my post, regarding ‘want to sell’,  but if you’re referring to alcohol, I’m sure it’ll simply be a glitch rather than a trend. 

[henry d]

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not sure I follow the logic as it relates to my post, regarding ‘want to sell’,  but if you’re referring to alcohol, I’m sure it’ll simply be a glitch rather than a trend. 

No it is a trend. Shops want to sell, people want to buy, but can't afford it. One shopkeeper said they no longer sell/stock white cider as those who prefer it can no longer afford it. That's a good thing in the long term for health, however expanding it to your story it could have an awful lot of unintended consequences if people cannot afford things that they rely on for good health and have to buy, for instance, cheaper less healthy food.

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, JRDS said:

Still no comment on the you tube clips and the actions of those commenting there after, I wonder why?  Don't worry as Geoffrey said the Turkeys cant delay Xmas forever and a GE will see public opinion reinstated which ain't what the the likes of you and the ex civil servant want.     

Since you asked so nicely...

On the youtube clips I see public servants talking and acting in good faith at the time. Sure, some of them may well have been paying it lip service as they did not believe the leave option would transpire.Lots happened since and the realities of what the vote may actually mean led them, for various reasons, to adjust their position.

I understand the attraction to espouse the accusations of treachery but wonder how much of it is just regurgitating what you have been fed and how much is well thought out reasoned thinking trying to take into account different perspectives.

[ShootingEgg]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

is just regurgitating what you have been fed and how much is well thought out reasoned thinking trying to take into account different perspectives.

Sounds like you're talking about the EU here and what they spew out at us and have done over the years... 

To the remainers, 

The vote was had the result was leave, now accept it and let's get on with our lives, leave as it was voted for and be positive about the future. 

[henry d]

I'm positive that certain sections of society are going to be impacted by brexit in ways that they could not imagine and the impacts will be negative.

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, henry d said:

it could have an awful lot of unintended consequences if people cannot afford things that they rely on for good health and have to buy, for instance, cheaper less healthy food.

I remember my cousin telling me that when he was a child in rural Aberdeenshire in the late 50s / early 60s the family diet  was pretty much based around mince, tatties and neeps. He said that in the summer months there was a bit more variety, but those were the staples. Healthy enough surely?

[ShootingEgg]

1 minute ago, henry d said:

I'm positive that certain sections of society are going to be impacted by brexit in ways that they could not imagine and the impacts will be negative.

Ah because you can see into the future through your crystal ball... Righto.. 

[henry d]

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

I remember my cousin telling me that when he was a child in rural Aberdeenshire in the late 50s / early 60s the family diet  was pretty much based around mince, tatties and neeps. He said that in the summer months there was a bit more variety, but those were the staples. Healthy enough surely?

Possibly back then, however I am pretty sure that mince now is different than mince now. We have done our own in the past and it is much better than the mush supermarkets churn out.

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Sounds like you're talking about the EU here and what they spew out at us and have done over the years... 

To the remainers, 

The vote was had the result was leave, now accept it and let's get on with our lives, leave as it was voted for and be positive about the future. 

What version of leave was voted for, sorry it must have passed me and quite a few other people by?

If Boris manages to weasel through a no deal exit on 31st October then let's come back and assess where our lives and the outlook on a positive future are on the 1st December.

[Yellow Bear]

Just now, Raja Clavata said:

What version of leave was voted for, sorry it must have passed me and quite a few other people by?"

One could equally state -- "What version of remain was voted for, sorry it must have passed me and quite a few other people by?

Sorry but this is as equally valid as your constantly regurgitated comment.

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

Ah because you can see into the future through your crystal ball... Righto.. 

It's already a given that scientific research will take a massive knock from a no deal Brexit -actually, from any Brexit.  https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/perspective/science-and-brexit.aspx

Look what happened to the Swiss. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/06/switzerland-scientific-exile-no-deal-brexit-britain-eu-immigration

[henry d]

2 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Ah because you can see into the future through your crystal ball... Righto.. 

There is already a panic over medication and medical supplies such as dressings and even rubber gloves, so yes I can, and so can others. How many sauces that are on the supermarket shelves rely on tomatoes? The UK does a few toms for the market but can't supply that size of market. 

Without a deal we will see problems with foodstuffs deteriorating in the back of lorries, demand will outstrip supply and I would not be surprised if we saw some looting or civil disobedience around food as the poorest cannot afford to stock up and tend to live hand to mouth.

Anyone can see some distance into the future and hopefully there will be some sort of deal and we can avoid the above.

[Newbie to this]

26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

What version of leave was voted for, sorry it must have passed me and quite a few other people by?

If Boris manages to weasel through a no deal exit on 31st October then let's come back and assess where our lives and the outlook on a positive future are on the 1st December.

The version of leave is the one that was promised by both sides of the argument and the sitting government in the run up to the referendum, " A vote for leave, means leaving the EU in it's entirety"

Yes let's assess it on the 1st of December, but let's then reassess in 5 years then 10 years 

[Scully]

54 minutes ago, henry d said:

No it is a trend. Shops want to sell, people want to buy, but can't afford it. One shopkeeper said they no longer sell/stock white cider as those who prefer it can no longer afford it. That's a good thing in the long term for health, however expanding it to your story it could have an awful lot of unintended consequences if people cannot afford things that they rely on for good health and have to buy, for instance, cheaper less healthy food.

I was talking about a businessman who wanted to sell goods to people who want to buy them, whereas you’re referring to a government policy to prevent ( by pricing out ) people buying something they want, from people who want to sell them it, but are prevented from doing so due to that policy. Unless I’ve got it wrong of course. 

[SpringDon]

6 minutes ago, henry d said:

<snip>

Without a deal we will see problems with foodstuffs deteriorating in the back of lorries, demand will outstrip supply and I would not be surprised if we saw some looting or civil disobedience around food as the poorest cannot afford to stock up and tend to live hand to mouth.

<snip>

Don’t understand why. There has been no suggestion of closed borders or refusal to sell to the uk. There may well delays at port (a day? Two days?) once the flow restarts, that delay becomes the new normal and is part of business.

Mps seem to have done very little for several years (other than shouting about brexit), yet day to day life seems to be unchanged. This is because the “work” is performed by the civil service (and its derivatives) and the infrastructure remains in place. Why would this change afterwards.

Some people accuse brexiteers of searching for a unicorn but it would appear that some think they already have a unicorn in the eu. But it’s actually a donkey with a toilet roll taped to its forehead. And it’s filled with worms.

I voted remain to preserve the status quo but now realise change is required and that’s not going to happen unless we leave. Which is not going to happen so it’s back to sleep for me and masses.

[Retsdon]

6 minutes ago, henry d said:

There is already a panic over medication and medical supplies such as dressings and even rubber gloves, so yes I can, and so can others. How many sauces that are on the supermarket shelves rely on tomatoes? The UK does a few toms for the market but can't supply that size of market. 

Not sure about this one. Here in Saudi I usually shop at Carrefour, and I can buy pretty well everything (other than pork products and alcohol) that I would find on the shelves of a supermarket in Britain .And although some things are more expensive than in the UK (cheese for example), others are probably cheaper. I suppose there might be temporary disruption, but these days everything is global (like the local supermarkets both here and in northern Thailand stock Marmite!) and I can't imagine that any short-term glitches in the supply chain won't soon be ironed out.

No, I think the results of Brexit will be less dramatic but ultimately far more damaging. As they say in the retail business you don't miss the customers you never had, and I think that down the line being outside the single market will mean that an awful lot of new business goes elsewhere. What's the point of the Single Market if it doesn't bring benefit to its members? And if we accept that it brings benefit - which by all objective standards it does - then logic says that being locked out of it will bring the opposite. It's obvious when you think about it. 

[oowee]

26 minutes ago, henry d said:

There is already a panic over medication and medical supplies such as dressings and even rubber gloves, so yes I can, and so can others. How many sauces that are on the supermarket shelves rely on tomatoes? The UK does a few toms for the market but can't supply that size of market. 

Without a deal we will see problems with foodstuffs deteriorating in the back of lorries, demand will outstrip supply and I would not be surprised if we saw some looting or civil disobedience around food as the poorest cannot afford to stock up and tend to live hand to mouth.

Anyone can see some distance into the future and hopefully there will be some sort of deal and we can avoid the above.

Access to fuel is another concern. Yellow Hammer talks of the zero tariff on imports and the subsequent closure of refinery capacity in the UK strike action and blockade. 

1 minute ago, Retsdon said:

What's the point of the Single Market if it doesn't bring benefit to its members? And if we accept that it brings benefit - which by all objective standards it does - then logic says that being locked out of it will bring the opposite. It's obvious when you think about it. 

This ^^^^^ 

[das]

13 hours ago, JRDS said:

I am a year off 55 and a draw down Pension, Brexit may trash my Pension pot but my view of the long term benefit for future generations and my kids is I want out.  I may be totally misguided but to see the UK as a rule taker in an increasingly Federal Europe run by Germany is not for me.  We fought 2 world wars for self rule, I don't live in the past but millions of people died as a result of giving us that.  We joined a trading arrangement many moons ago, fine with that but not the rest.  If our current relationship with the EU was presented to us as if we were joining it would be laughed out of Parliament.  Pay a fortune to run a huge trading deficit and support any volume of their citizens who want to come here with health care, housing, schooling and benefits is madness.  What do we get out of it other than the UK Taxpayer paying our domestic businesses import levies.

A great nail on the head statement. Well said👍

[Scully]

54 minutes ago, henry d said:

I'm positive that certain sections of society are going to be impacted by brexit in ways that they could not imagine and the impacts will be negative.

No doubt, but hasn’t that always been the case, whatever the circumstances?  I don’t see anything which being in or out of the EU which will ever change this. 

[das]

12 hours ago, JRDS said:

Pinched this of the BBS.  Have a listen Remoaners and appreciate the total hypocracy of what has happened since..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4szobfOJuCk

 

Unbelievable!  What a bloody load of Remainer lies. May they rot in Hell for their duplicity

[Raja Clavata]

51 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

One could equally state -- "What version of remain was voted for, sorry it must have passed me and quite a few other people by?

Sorry but this is as equally valid as your constantly regurgitated comment.

What a strange line of reasoning. Doesn't answer the question though does it and we are not debating the remain scenarios, should we conclude you don't answer the question because you can't?

[Newbie to this]

53 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

What a strange line of reasoning. Doesn't answer the question though does it and we are not debating the remain scenarios, should we conclude you don't answer the question because you can't?

But we should be debating the remain scenarios. Will the UK be forced to accept the Euro as our currency? Will we be forced into a single EU Taxation policy? Will our contributions go up? Will Turkey or any other countries for that matter join and become recipient members? 

The list goes on, remaining is full of uncertainty!!! All of which we as the populace of the UK will have very little say on, especially with the veto being rumoured to be disappearing, which is yet another uncertainty!

Edited September 27, 2019 by Newbie to this

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

I'm positive that certain sections of society are going to be already impacted by brexit the EU in ways that they could not have imagined, and the impacts will continue to be negative if we dont leave.

Fixed