BREXIT

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

Great post!

😂 I'll summarise. 

Do whatever the EU tell you or else. 

If you want any kind of trade deal, you play by our rules, end of. 

You WILL relinquish sovereignty, there are no nations in Europe, just states, eventually, there will be one state, the EU, You will NEVER  get to vote on this. 

When we have complete control, voting will be unnecessary, as there will only be the EU as government. 

You will buy what we want you to buy, you will live how we tell you to live, individuality is to be discouraged. 

The UK will receive extra punishments, as it dared to believe it could break free, its spirit of free thinking and innovation must be crushed, this will be achieved by sending all 3rd World migrants to them, and any useful industries it possesses will be shipped over to mainland EU. 

Once the EU army has been inaugurated, these measures can be achieved by force if necessary. 

Hopefully our 5th column UK politicians will destroy the will to fight from within. 

This is the plan. 

[panoma1]

12 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

😂 I'll summarise. 

Do whatever the EU tell you or else. 

If you want any kind of trade deal, you play by our rules, end of. 

You WILL relinquish sovereignty, there are no nations in Europe, just states, eventually, there will be one state, the EU, You will NEVER  get to vote on this. 

When we have complete control, voting will be unnecessary, as there will only be the EU as government. 

You will buy what we want you to buy, you will live how we tell you to live, individuality is to be discouraged. 

The UK will receive extra punishments, as it dared to believe it could break free, its spirit of free thinking and innovation must be crushed, this will be achieved by sending all 3rd World migrants to them, and any useful industries it possesses will be shipped over to mainland EU. 

Once the EU army has been inaugurated, these measures can be achieved by force if necessary. 

Hopefully our 5th column UK politicians will destroy the will to fight from within. 

This is the plan. 

Great post! Lol!

[ditchman]

8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Great post! Lol!

when you look at the change over the last 40 years.............and then look to the next ...say 20 years....that is not a tongue -in-cheek post........it send a ice cold feeling down my spine..

[Scully]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

Every Country within the EU ultimately has responsibility for its own actions and for it's citizens now.  

'Now' as in presently. This will change given time; it is the ultimate aim. 

[Rewulf]

36 minutes ago, ditchman said:

...that is not a tongue -in-cheek post...

I know,  the scary thing is that the remainers predict it in their rhetoric. 

And whilst they believe it to be a good thing, the cold reality is that it will be far from being so. 

Dress it up how you want, the EU  is a fledgling totalitarian state, and needs to be stopped. 

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I know,  the scary thing is that the remainers predict it in their rhetoric. 

And whilst they believe it to be a good thing, the cold reality is that it will be far from being so. 

Dress it up how you want, the EU  is a fledgling totalitarian state, and needs to be stopped. 

Dress it up how you like but co-operation is the future. Just need to agree what that is. 

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Dress it up how you like but co-operation is the future. Just need to agree what that is. 

What is Co operation? What does that entail? 

Verhofstadt have told us straight what he thinks it is, a superstate, controlled by Brussels, with national governments powerless, its not a pipe dream, its happening. 

Yet you talk about agreeing to what it entails? 

We never got the chance, neither has any electorate in Europe until 2016, and then only because they thought they had it in the bag. 

The few that voted on treaties, got ignored if they didn't play ball, and they would ignore our vote if they thought they could get away with it. 

It's insidious, it's corrupt, they know it, Europe knows it, and they don't even care we know it. Because there's nothing you can do about it, with no mechanism in place to remove it, until now... 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

The 4th Reich!

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

😂 I'll summarise. 

Do whatever the EU tell you or else. 

If you want any kind of trade deal, you play by our rules, end of. 

You WILL relinquish sovereignty, there are no nations in Europe, just states, eventually, there will be one state, the EU, You will NEVER  get to vote on this. 

When we have complete control, voting will be unnecessary, as there will only be the EU as government. 

You will buy what we want you to buy, you will live how we tell you to live, individuality is to be discouraged. 

The UK will receive extra punishments, as it dared to believe it could break free, its spirit of free thinking and innovation must be crushed, this will be achieved by sending all 3rd World migrants to them, and any useful industries it possesses will be shipped over to mainland EU. 

Once the EU army has been inaugurated, these measures can be achieved by force if necessary. 

Hopefully our 5th column UK politicians will destroy the will to fight from within. 

This is the plan. 

Brilliant thought and word power that reflect almost exactly my thoughts - which I'm too thick to express anything like as well.

[Dave-G]

No apolagies for linking to this if its been done elswhere - needs listening to... 

[henry d]

42 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Brilliant thought and word power that reflect almost exactly my thoughts - which I'm too thick to express anything like as well.

 

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

No apolagies for linking to this if its been done elswhere - needs listening to... 

No, it's just echo chamber politics.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, henry d said:

 

No, it's just echo chamber politics.

Good input henry, very constructive 👍

[oowee]

Are they playing that paper scissors rock game?

[armsid]

REWULF great topic spot on. as i quoted in earlier posts we have been stripped of national identity ALL OUR INDUSTRY we cant even make a nut and bolt pun when Brown was in power he went to recruit jobs from eastern europe TO DRIVE DOWN WAGES.when i asked on the future of europe and our control of our own country no one except a few patriots Rewulf Panoma etc they know who they are spelt it out like Rewulfs latest topic so if he can see the writing on the wall why cant the other writers? This country needs to wake up or one day we will all be just a number in a computer paying our money to an unseen , unaccoutable unelected communist type politburough who will have EVERYTHING THEY WANT AT OUR EXPENSE  rant over

[oowee]

22 minutes ago, armsid said:

REWULF great topic spot on. as i quoted in earlier posts we have been stripped of national identity ALL OUR INDUSTRY we cant even make a nut and bolt pun when Brown was in power he went to recruit jobs from eastern europe TO DRIVE DOWN WAGES.when i asked on the future of europe and our control of our own country no one except a few patriots Rewulf Panoma etc they know who they are spelt it out like Rewulfs latest topic so if he can see the writing on the wall why cant the other writers? This country needs to wake up or one day we will all be just a number in a computer paying our money to an unseen , unaccoutable unelected communist type politburough who will have EVERYTHING THEY WANT AT OUR EXPENSE  rant over

Doomed were doomed Mr Mannering. We have been stripped of heavy industry because our labour is too expensive. The future is the knowledge economy, brain not brawn. The thing such an economy needs the most is connections. Cutting us off from the EU is kicking the country in the bits 🙂 

We will be OK because someone somewhere has a plan. If our labour rates come down enough we can go back to making nuts and bolts compete head on with the Chinese. 

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Doomed were doomed Mr Mannering. We have been stripped of heavy industry because our labour is too expensive. The future is the knowledge economy, brain not brawn. The thing such an economy needs the most is connections. Cutting us off from the EU is kicking the country in the bits 🙂 

We will be OK because someone somewhere has a plan. If our labour rates come down enough we can go back to making nuts and bolts compete head on with the Chinese. 

I have to agree about our labour rates - thanks to the unions influence on the Labour party in days gone by - that youth will not know about.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Dave-G

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Doomed were doomed Mr Mannering. We have been stripped of heavy industry because our labour is too expensive. The future is the knowledge economy, brain not brawn. The thing such an economy needs the most is connections. Cutting us off from the EU is kicking the country in the bits 🙂 

We will be OK because someone somewhere has a plan. If our labour rates come down enough we can go back to making nuts and bolts compete head on with the Chinese. 

Cant agree with this, there was a new series started on Sunday,  Guy Martin in Japan, one of the most successful countries in the world.  He was saying they've done so well because of the one man bands,  small machine shops making bits that the big companies needed, but the country is in trouble because the youth want cyber jobs, not trades where you get dirty or there are dangers.

What your spelling out is this country making nothing,  relying on others, I don't think so, because then they can charge what they like while our country grinds to a halt. 

[Retsdon]

10 hours ago, Dave-G said:

No apolagies for linking to this if its been done elswhere - needs listening to... 

But we're leaving the EU so we're no longer in the club. And this is what happens when you're negotiating from a position of weakness. Don't imagine for one moment that the Americans or anyone else will be any more generous. Britain is going it be like one of those unfortunate girls that are in the newspapers from time to time.

[Rewulf]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

Doomed were doomed Mr Mannering. We have been stripped of heavy industry because our labour is too expensive. The future is the knowledge economy, brain not brawn. The thing such an economy needs the most is connections. Cutting us off from the EU is kicking the country in the bits 🙂 

We will be OK because someone somewhere has a plan. If our labour rates come down enough we can go back to making nuts and bolts compete head on with the Chinese. 

 

4 hours ago, Retsdon said:

But we're leaving the EU so we're no longer in the club. And this is what happens when you're negotiating from a position of weakness. Don't imagine for one moment that the Americans or anyone else will be any more generous. Britain is going it be like one of those unfortunate girls that are in the newspapers from time to time.

What you both seem keen to emphasisze is how, as a nation, we're a bit rubbish. 

And, if the EU doesn't hold our hand and take us to the toilet, we're going to have a accident in our training pants 😂

We had a very successful set of industries, in fact Britain INVENTED  industry, then we joined the EU, and the decline began, is it a coincidence? 

You can talk all day about how we can't survive without being part of a bigger group of nations, that's just the globalist mantra, but in reality, trade agreements have been around for millennia, it doesn't follow that you have to be absorbed into a faceless, unelected beurocracy to be part of one. 

I think we're better than that. 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

 

What you both seem keen to emphasisze is how, as a nation, we're a bit rubbish. 

And, if the EU doesn't hold our hand and take us to the toilet, we're going to have a accident in our training pants 😂

We had a very successful set of industries, in fact Britain INVENTED  industry, then we joined the EU, and the decline began, is it a coincidence? 

You can talk all day about how we can't survive without being part of a bigger group of nations, that's just the globalist mantra, but in reality, trade agreements have been around for millennia, it doesn't follow that you have to be absorbed into a faceless, unelected beurocracy to be part of one. 

I think we're better than that. 

That's a distortion of what we are both saying. Of course we can survive alone. As part of the club we can work to our strengths as a team. Better together is our message nothing more. Trade agreements are not just about we sell you this and you sell us that, there is so much more than this narrow view of an economy. Integration gives far greater power. Ronaldo is of no value without the rest of the team. 

The industries we started have moved on and the UK must move on and keep up with progress. Our standard of living and lifestyle demands higher incomes and they come from knowledge. We will still need people to get their hands dirty but the country must be driven by high value added business. Staying ahead of the competition and working at the cutting edge. We want to be driving the bus not waiting at the bus stop thumbing a lift. 

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, oowee said:

That's a distortion of what we are both saying. Of course we can survive alone.

Well thanks for letting us know 😂

 

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

. As part of the club we can work to our strengths as a team

That's if the team treats you as an equal part of it, with the EU, I don't believe that is the case. There is a definite air of contempt shown to us. 

You'll probably scoff at this point, but I'll demonstrate the truth in it. 

When we voted to leave, the EU could have been more accommodating, less hostile, it could have expressed regret and promised to make transition as painless as possible, without detriment to itself or markets. 

It didn't though did it? 'you will be punished!' was the order of the day, blackmail and threats. There was a point where after a period of reflection, another look at the matter, some late reforms, could have seen the electorate reconsider, but they blew it with their contempt for the UK, and democracy in general. What that happened was, the resolve to leave was strengthened, and will be amply demonstrated in 2 weeks time, how much that resolve has solidified. 

You use the analogy of Ronaldo, but if he is such a big part of the team, why don't they treat him with respect, so he doesn't WANT to leave? 

Now he's going to transfer out and make another team stronger, and maybe come back and make fools of his old one? 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/11/28/the-disinfectant-of-democracy/

[SpringDon]

On 28/11/2019 at 09:13, oowee said:

Every Country within the EU ultimately has responsibility for its own actions and for it's citizens now.  That said every country bends with the wind dependent on the benefits or otherwise of doing so. Trade in all it's forms from goods, to services from people to knowledge, from travel to regulation all work to exert pressure on government to act in certain ways. In some of the arrangements you loose, in some you gain and that is the nature of getting along for greater mutual benefit. The role and purpose of the EU is simply to put a framework in place and a series of common objectives that act as the guiding principles for those arrangements. 

In or out of the EU it is hard to see how those pressures will change. A good example is fisheries. Whilst it is a relatively insignificant industry in the grande scheme of things it does reflect many of the 'Brexit' objective's of taking back control. The fishing community voted heavily to leave. The Brexit party said; ''There will be nothing to negotiate - all the resources defined in UK waters currently held by other EU member states and allocated under an EU system will be automatically returned to the UK" The fishing community believed the lies. 

Through the withdrawl agreement fishing has been tied to the wider trade deal. May agreed to include  "the Parties should establish a new fisheries agreement on… access to waters and [fishing] quota shares." simply because to do otherwise was to embroil the UK in a massively complex  negotiation to exclude French Boats and give the UK access to French markets where a large proportion of UK caught fish, is sold.

Boris strongly objected saying "This is not what was promised to the people of this country,"  "let alone the fishing communities of Scotland. And if history teaches us anything, it is that our European friends will not desist until they have worked out a way to plunder Scottish waters for their fish." However having taken the reigns as PM he quickly realised the stupidity of his argument and signed up anyway because he needed a deal to sell to the UK.  

If Boris gets overall control in the election he has until July 1st to agree a trade deal which will include fishing. There are two principle options.

1. Exclude France and Spain from UK waters and not complete Heads of Terms for trade.

2. Sacrifice the relatively small fishing industry to be able to claim progress. 

The UK is ultimately responsible for it's own decisions. Those decisions are not without consequences. For every action there is an opposite reaction. When we leave the EU we leave the basic framework that provides the guiding principles of fairness that supports those decisions. We will still be subject to the same pressures.

The fishing is relatively insignificant - true. Everything else is half truths or incorrect.

Uk fishing grounds are the most productive in the eu and were sacrificed as part of the conditions of entry into the eec. The uk now only lands around a sixth of the catch from those grounds. The rest is landed by eu fleets.

We do import around 80% of the fish we consume but 3 of the top 5 (cod, haddock and salmon) come from Norway, Iceland and faroe, these would get cheaper. Our exports mostly go to the eu so tariffs would increase.

Two alternatives are we develop a taste for mackerel and herring or we catch more of the species we eat.

But fisheries are not really the problem, they are a symptom of the larger malaise. The common fisheries policy is regarded by some as an environmental disaster yet then an opportunity arises (brexit) to put a large proportion of waters under sustainable management, all people can do is bleat about tariffs.

Surely we can see that the status quo of large protectionist blocs has given us nothing but financial crisis and a climate emergency. It’s time to progress not live in the past.

[Dave-G]

Here's some more cut and paste echo chamber politics about the EU elite gorging in feeding troughs: 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1210863/EU-news-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Donald-Tusk-European-Commission-Council-president-latest?fbclid=IwAR3zzVMgQuYF6Q7OJvZRBkr25Ookn8kL5AtWThZDjtwQLXrrd46H38cyiPw

Edited November 29, 2019 by Dave-G

[oowee]

58 minutes ago, SpringDon said:

The fishing is relatively insignificant - true. Everything else is half truths or incorrect.

Uk fishing grounds are the most productive in the eu and were sacrificed as part of the conditions of entry into the eec. The uk now only lands around a sixth of the catch from those grounds. The rest is landed by eu fleets.

We do import around 80% of the fish we consume but 3 of the top 5 (cod, haddock and salmon) come from Norway, Iceland and faroe, these would get cheaper. Our exports mostly go to the eu so tariffs would increase.

Two alternatives are we develop a taste for mackerel and herring or we catch more of the species we eat.

But fisheries are not really the problem, they are a symptom of the larger malaise. The common fisheries policy is regarded by some as an environmental disaster yet then an opportunity arises (brexit) to put a large proportion of waters under sustainable management, all people can do is bleat about tariffs.

Surely we can see that the status quo of large protectionist blocs has given us nothing but financial crisis and a climate emergency. It’s time to progress not live in the past.

I would agree with the very last sentence. The point of my post being that if fishing is indicative of the demand for change and the proposal going forward is to pretty much maintain the status quo for the benefit of the UK then what hope Brexit? Fishing is the tip of the ice berg but it demonstrates the lack of cohesive argument for the proposal.

If this is not the case and we want to renegotiate the fisheries chapter then Boris's proposal to get Brexit done is immediately sunk. We will have to unwind historical rights, pull our boats back from Norway. Can that be done in 6 months? I think not. 

'Guardian August 2019:-

A case can be made for changes in the EU quota patterns and extra quotas for British boats. A fairer share for inshore (under 12 metre) boats is long overdue.

But such changes demand patient negotiation not confrontation or instant abrogation of centuries-old rights.

Overall, the UK imports 70% of the fish we eat and exports 80% of what we catch. The UK already has most of the quotas for haddock and generous quotas for cod (which is anyway growing scarce once again).

For British boats to catch what EU boats now catch – the so-called “sea of opportunity” – would demand radical changes in British eating habits and/or fish processing and exporting industries. Neither can happen overnight. Where would we wish to export much of the promised El Dorado of fish? To the European Union.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Where would we wish to export much of the promised El Dorado of fish? To the European Union

Be nice to have the fish that's caught in British waters be affordable, rather than having to import cheaper Alaskan pollock and Vietnamese panga. 

Strange how it's cheaper to bring fish in from half way round the world, than from 100 miles away. 

If the EU want to buy it, they can. 

If they don't, we can eat it ourselves, and do a bit of of smug environmental saving at the same time 😁