Rewulf Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, henry d said: Is exactly where cajones like that should stop. Doesn't stop you 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I think I see the problem with this Brexit thingy now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Prove otherwise? Why should we do all the research? Because we are not making the claims 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 18 hours ago, Cosmicblue said: Armsid So you were in your 20s, so now you are in your 60s - same as me. The list of Grumbles From the top - the motor industry is truly global (2nd largest industry vertical in the world after pharma), the woes of the industry have nothing to do with the EU. The industry responds to global trends, where the growth markets are and cheapest labour (i.e. Audi build the Q5 in Mexico). For the automotive assembly industry here in UK it is dependent on open borders in the EU so that they can ship stuff back and forth - i.e. BMW build engines just south of Brum, some of the manufacturing steps are done in the EU and the components re-imported (tariff free) back to the UK. All bets are off with Brexit - most likely the plants in UK will be scaled back/closed - that's why getting that 'deal' is so important. The challenges of the Steel industry are well documented and have nothing to do with the EU - you will have to look to China for that and where the steel that's made is actually consumed. Pension funds have issues for lots of reasons - poor administration, people are living longer, financial crash of 2008 damaged values and earnings rates - many things none of which are EU related. We could feed ourselves true - supermarkets would then only sell seasonal veg and fruit - much of what we eat is imported all the year round. The NHS - a favourite political football. The NHS kicked off in 1948 - back then we men lived to about 66 and women to around 77. The NHS is fundamentally doomed for many reasons: 1) Technology/science/research has discovered more ailments and methods of healing us coupled to ever more sophisticated treatments all of which cost money - lots of money. 2) People are living longer because of (1) above 3) All the technology and treatments require even more highly qualified staff that need to be paid a salary that reflects the skills, value and dedication. Roughly speaking there are 320,000 nurses and about 150,000 doctors. Their salaries do not reflect the dedication and professionalism - against overwhelming demands. Giving each individual a £2 pay increase each year increases that wage bill by £1m - plus NI and pension costs. Nurses salaries need to be increased by say £5,000 across the board to make it worth doing the job - they have to pay their Uni fees now so they can take care of us lot. I have a dear friend working a night shift right now in cardio-thoracic ITU - people hanging on the very edge of life so providing minute to minute care so their families can take them home a week or two. We don't pay those amazing people anywhere near enough. So the NHS is in a doomed loop: Increased life expectancy>ever more expensive treatments/staff>needs more money>increased life expectancy - repeat. It's only a matter of time before the NHS has to transition to two-tier care system (like the US) where those with money can have private healthcare and the rest get the baked-potato version. Does this having anything to do with the EU? The world of 40 years ago has nothing to do with 2019 (except we have screwed over the climate in the intervening years) No - absolutely nothing - we do have EU nurses and doctors though. The EU and Brussels Yup - totally agree - the EU leadership and Brussels machinery has got too powerful and lost sight of the reason that it was created. Stick to commerce and stop trying to meddle with pointless stuff that just keeps bureaucrats busy and the EU would be a good place to be. The EU thing got broken because of our useless politicians (all countries) who were happy to take the salary rather than manage our collective futures - hence the mess we are in now. All sad, but aftraid your'e right. You didn't mention a huge worldwide population growth which I feel the levels of migration reflect this, countries have static square miles and are getting somewhat full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Why do remainers ( I’ll make a sweeping generalisation here to comply with remainer tactics ) constantly claim that those who wish to leave the EU, want to relive the ‘70’s? 😃 I don’t want us to stop trading with Europe at all, I simply resent the EU’s intent to absorb the UK into its empire. If however, the EU states we cannot have one without the other, then I want us to leave completely. All this scaremongering of recession, catastrophe, looking into the abyss, WWIII( 😂) the collapse of the housing industry, scurvy and ticktallerooo didn’t work, because 17.4 million ( the majority ) STILL voted to leave! So please, stop with the hysterics, cos it didn’t work and still isn’t. Incidentally, there is a brutal interview by Piers Morgan ( like him or loathe him he knows how to treat a politician ) asking the leader of the Libdems about her views on democracy, doing the rounds on FB. I don’t know how to do the link but it is well worth viewing. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I think I see the problem with this Brexit thingy now... Your right our Parliamentary democracy is broken and not fit for purpose. We need a more proportional system to marginalise the extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, oowee said: Your right our Parliamentary democracy is broken and not fit for purpose. We need a more proportional system to marginalise the extremists. Are they only extremists if they don’t agree with your point of view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Scully said: Why do remainers ( I’ll make a sweeping generalisation here to comply with remainer tactics ) constantly claim that those who wish to leave the EU, want to relive the ‘70’s? 😃 I don’t want us to stop trading with Europe at all, I simply resent the EU’s intent to absorb the UK into its empire. If however, the EU states we cannot have one without the other, then I want us to leave completely. All this scaremongering of recession, catastrophe, looking into the abyss, WWIII( 😂) the collapse of the housing industry, scurvy and ticktallerooo didn’t work, because 17.4 million ( the majority ) STILL voted to leave! So please, stop with the hysterics, cos it didn’t work and still isn’t. Incidentally, there is a brutal interview by Piers Morgan ( like him or loathe him he knows how to treat a politician ) asking the leader of the Libdems about her views on democracy, doing the rounds on FB. I don’t know how to do the link but it is well worth viewing. 🙂 is it this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, oowee said: Your right our Parliamentary democracy is broken and not fit for purpose. We need a more proportional system to marginalise the extremists. Well tackle that, AFTER we leave. When parliament eventually allows a GE. in other news, turkeys don't vote for Xmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, Scully said: Are they only extremists if they don’t agree with your point of view? Interesting point but anyone at the margins of the middle ground must be by definition. We all (most) want to trade with the EU and all (most) want to avoid the empires clutches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Gordon Bennett! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, andrewluke said: is it this one Yes it is. Thanks for that. At last we have someone asking politicians the relevant questions! Questions I would like to ask them myself. Perhaps it’s just a BBC thing. 🤔 I now know what advice to give my two currently uni’ student offspring if they ask me which way they should vote! 👍 Daughter graduated yesterday actually, but is now doing her Masters, so still relevant. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I had an email from a friend who sits on a Lib Dem held town council. The whole council is decidedly uneasy about what Swinson announced about simply cancelling Brexit. Words ranged from disconcerted to mildly alarmed, and I think that's about as a middle of the road, middle of England type person can get! Short of spitting out tea in shock, I don't see how much more seriously they could react Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: I had an email from a friend who sits on a Lib Dem held town council. The whole council is decidedly uneasy about what Swinson announced about simply cancelling Brexit. Words ranged from disconcerted to mildly alarmed, and I think that's about as a middle of the road, middle of England type person can get! Short of spitting out tea in shock, I don't see how much more seriously they could react But it keeps her and her very small party in the news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, henry d said: Is exactly where cajones like that should stop. So we're not entitled to be suspicious of German/Brussels subterfuge? Behave yaself Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I dont c a problem with lib Dems position. We have a deal on the table we dont want. We have no deal that we dont want. A Ge will let the parties put there cards on the table. Where will the Tories be lol and god only knows where labour are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmicblue Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 It's an interesting thread - one group with heads attached to reality and the other group peering through a red mist of rage unable to grasp the grim realities of what lies before them. Rewulf will sharpen his tools and come trolling along very shortly I'm sure. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, oowee said: I dont c a problem with lib Dems position. We have a deal on the table we dont want. We have no deal that we dont want. A Ge will let the parties put there cards on the table. Where will the Tories be lol and god only knows where labour are. We have a vote for leave that we did and do want. Should of already left. Swindon is a joke. If I win I'll do it if I lose I'll throw my toys out the pram and kick up a stink. She only knows democracy if she wins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, oowee said: I dont c a problem with lib Dems position. We have a deal on the table we dont want. We have no deal that we dont want. A Ge will let the parties put there cards on the table. Where will the Tories be lol and god only knows where labour are. I thought all parties had already put their cards on the table , just over three years ago? How many more times are they expected to do that? Until the establishment gets the result it wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said: It's an interesting thread - one group with heads attached to reality and the other group peering through a red mist of rage unable to grasp the grim realities of what lies before them. Rewulf will sharpen his tools and come trolling along very shortly I'm sure. 😀 I'm here! Don't be too hard on yourself buddy, the red mist will clear for you soon, and the grim reality of life outside the EU will become apparent 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said: It's an interesting thread - one group with heads attached to reality and the other group peering through a red mist of rage unable to grasp the grim realities of what lies before them. Rewulf will sharpen his tools and come trolling along very shortly I'm sure. 😀 Servitude to a bunch of nations that see us only as a cash cow and dumping ground for their unemployed or self governance with no vast payments for the privelege of a huge trade deficit with them is a simple choice. We did all the arguing and Govt funded / approved scaremongering before the referendum and Leave against all odds won. In another GE Leave Parties would pick up a majority, what that means if the Tories won't collaborate with the BP is a seperate issue. What amazes me is that anyone in their right mind wants to Remain unless they personally benefit financially. After we ditch the EU the next job is sorting our whole broken Political disgrace of a Parliament and the Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 50 minutes ago, Dave-G said: So we're not entitled to be suspicious of German/Brussels subterfuge? Behave yaself Henry. What, zer Germans are going to attack? Riddle of the sands? Get a grip yourself you xenophobe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said: It's an interesting thread - one group with heads attached to reality and the other group peering through a red mist of rage unable to grasp the grim realities of what lies before them. Rewulf will sharpen his tools and come trolling along very shortly I'm sure. 😀 .....and if anyone wanted a better example of how superior some regard themselves, over those whom wish to leave the EU, you’d be hard pushed to find one. What exactly are these ‘grim realities’ which lay before us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, henry d said: What, zer Germans are going to attack? Riddle of the sands? Get a grip yourself you xenophobe. Well that escalated quickly 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) In reply to Scully it must be not getting the 33 or so pence back in the pound we give them for the 18 odd Billion of hard earned UK Taxpayers money we put in or not having to support the 3 1/2 million of their citizens in the main and running a huge trade deficit with them. Terrifying! Would you invest money knowing you would get a 1/3 rd back on your investment, not unless you were clinically certified and thats without the additional burden of Social Security and Health Care for 3 1/2 million. The madness has to end. Edited September 17, 2019 by JRDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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