Retsdon Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I suppose everyone has read about the tragic accident that killed a young lad on his motorbike near Northampton and how the driver of the car, an American diplomat's wife, left the country under the protection of diplomatic immunity. It's reported today that the US has turned down a request from the UK to waive that immunity. Any thoughts? For my own part, after reading the details of what happened, I'm probably with the Americans. A very sad story altogether though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I'll admit to not knowing the full details but how can a non diplomat clain immunity. I was, it seems wrongly, always under the impression diplomatic immunity was only available to certain high ranking officials. Off to Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildrover77 Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 She was the wife of a ‘spy’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Very sad all round, local TV News say she apparently told the Police that she had no intention to leave the country when being interviewed. The Chief Constable of Northampton Police has written to the Embassy requesting her attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) Feel for the parents, they just want closure and to know what really happened. They probably never will now. Also nothing is more guilty than leaving the country and getting immunity. Edited October 7, 2019 by ShootingEgg Words in wrong order, Monday morning issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Very sad, but if your going to have diplomatic immunity it has to be just that. Immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 I read the UK and US agreed a deal where everyone working at the facility could have diplomatic immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: Very sad, but if your going to have diplomatic immunity it has to be just that. Immunity. Did not the U/S twice try to have this revoked for a middle eastern diplomat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, guzzicat said: Did not the U/S twice try to have this revoked for a middle eastern diplomat? I remember a drunk driving/ vehicular death case but it wasn’t prosecuted. But there you go. Nobody is going to retaliate against the US but they still have to respect it. The US would not retaliate against Britain but if your going to respect it for Russia you have to respect it for the US. I don’t agree with Diplomatic Immunity but if two countries make a pack to honor it then you honor it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 If she has it she is within her rights to use it. Like it or not it's just how it is. Feel for the family and you'd think the diplomatic service for USA would talk to her and get to crux of what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, figgy said: If she has it she is within her rights to use it. Like it or not it's just how it is. Feel for the family and you'd think the diplomatic service for USA would talk to her and get to crux of what happened. unfortunatly this............... if it was truly an accident.........she should wiave her immunity....and face the court here....but for reasons known only to herself she has decieded not to..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Diplomatic immunity may be waived by the country of origin of the diplomat in the case of a serious crime unconnected with diplomatic duties. Individuals cannot waive their own immunity. This has happened before in cases such as manslaughter, so it would be entirely possible for the US to act to ensure this criminal will be prosecuted. But it won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Not sure I could sleep well or face myself in the mirror knowing I’d effectively ‘done a runner’. She is going to have to struggle with this for the rest of her time. Hopefully she’ll see sense and return of her own free will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Christopher Jones Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Retsdon said: I suppose everyone has read about the tragic accident that killed a young lad on his motorbike near Northampton and how the driver of the car, an American diplomat's wife, left the country under the protection of diplomatic immunity. It's reported today that the US has turned down a request from the UK to waive that immunity. Any thoughts? For my own part, after reading the details of what happened, I'm probably with the Americans. A very sad story altogether though. Its "The Special Relationship" at its best, its a one way street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Scully said: Not sure I could sleep well or face myself in the mirror knowing I’d effectively ‘done a runner’. She is going to have to struggle with this for the rest of her time. Hopefully she’ll see sense and return of her own free will. I am afraid you are assuming she has the same honour/honesty ethic as yourself, I bet this will just fade away & she will forget/ be forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, guzzicat said: I am afraid you are assuming she has the same honour/honesty ethic as yourself, I bet this will just fade away & she will forget/ be forgotten. Well, yes I am. You have to assume people are basically decent, until proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Even if she returned she would be untouchable as long as the immunity is in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 Well the old saying that “nobody is above the law” is a myth after all! Perhaps Boris could grant himself diplomatic immunity and stick two fingers up to our remainer Parliament, and the UK could leave the EU as planned on 31st October........without fear of being chucked in the slammer? 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Well the old saying that “nobody is above the law” is a myth after all! My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 A very sad case indeed and it would not be unreasonable for the US to waive the immunity when faced with a serious allegation such as this. Let's hope the US will rethink and do the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzicat Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Scully said: Well, yes I am. You have to assume people are basically decent, until proven otherwise. Surely she proved that by fleeing after giving her word to stay Edited October 7, 2019 by guzzicat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 She may have returned to the US under 'advice', not necessarily her choice. Could very well be that her lawyers looked at the case, decided that it all looked a bit dicey and she was likely to end up in court/the slammer which would be a bad look and told her that she should leave..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, guzzicat said: Surely she proved that by fleeing after giving her word to stay It certainly looks that way. Perhaps she was influenced by her husband. Hopefully her conscience will get the better of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted October 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zapp said: Diplomatic immunity may be waived by the country of origin of the diplomat in the case of a serious crime unconnected with diplomatic duties. Individuals cannot waive their own immunity. This has happened before in cases such as manslaughter, so it would be entirely possible for the US to act to ensure this criminal will be prosecuted. But it won't. I think you're being a bit hard calling her 'criminal'. As someone who has more than once made the same mistake that she did, I can envisage what happened as if I'd been there. She'd been in the country a month or two. She came out of the gates of the air base onto an empty road, and not having 100 percent adapted to driving on a different side of the road, she inadvertently turned onto the wrong carriageway. If there are no other cars in sight to remind you to drive on the 'wrong' side it's a very easy thing to do, and I've both done it myself several times, and also more than once been a passenger when other people have done it. She had her 12 year old son in the car with her and if they were talking or whatever... But this time, instead of it being an 'oops!!' moment, she ended up taking out an oncoming motorcyclist. I feel very sorry for everyone involved. I think that initially she probably had no intention of leaving. She admitted her fault to interviewing officers, and assured them that she had no plans to go anywhere. But then I suspect that the US Embassy people persuaded her that it would be better for her and her family to just go. Perhaps they felt that as she had no criminal intent - but was rather the accidental participant in an unfortunate set of circumstances - it was their job to look after her (as family of an American diplomat) and save her further distress. Of course, that is cold comfort for the family of the unfortunate motorcyclist but I can see where they're coming from. Edited October 7, 2019 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted October 7, 2019 Report Share Posted October 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Retsdon said: I think you're being a bit hard calling her 'criminal'. As someone who has more than once made the same mistake that she did, I can envisage what happened as if I'd been there. She'd been in the country a month or two. She came out of the gates of the air base onto an empty road, and not having 100 percent adapted to driving on a different side of the road, she inadvertently turned onto the wrong carriageway. If there are no other cars in sight to remind you to drive on the 'wrong' side it's a very easy thing to do, and I've both done it myself several times, and also more than once been a passenger when other people have done it. She had her 12 year old son in the car with her and if they were talking or whatever... But this time, instead of it being an 'oops!!' moment, she ended up taking out an oncoming motorcyclist. I feel very sorry for everyone involved. I think that initially she probably had no intention of leaving. She admitted her fault to interviewing officers, and assured them that she had no plans to go anywhere. But then I suspect that the US Embassy people persuaded her that it would be better for her and her family to just go. Perhaps they felt that as she had no criminal intent - but was rather the accidental participant in an unfortunate set of circumstances - it was their job to look after her (as family of an American diplomat) and save her further distress. Of course, that is cold comfort for the family of the unfortunate motorcyclist but I can see where they're coming from. I agree with this 100% 38 minutes ago, Scully said: It certainly looks that way. Perhaps she was influenced by her husband. Hopefully her conscience will get the better of her. I understand where your coming from. But if I made a mistake and the law couldn’t touch me I wouldn’t voluntarily go to jail. It wouldn’t bring the kid back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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