Lead ban & BASC

[Farmboy91]

18 minutes ago, clangerman said:

you are right that’s my point i did see it numerous times so i’m no liar that’s all i was after 

i’m to old to see the end the nuts have done such a good job we are on a generation bought up on it’s wrong so it’s a case of when not if now 

When we have our own kind chipping away from in then yes, your right.

 

[8 shot]

14 minutes ago, clangerman said:

Public is not an individual, the public can and do end up getting swept away with the utter tripe spouted by the likes of WJ for example

And that is exactly what the BASC and the other orgs are doing getting swept along with it to. They would rather appease the Anti’s and upset a few members than fight for what we know. The dressing down Duncan Thomas gave us member on the tube is anything to go by they must be on the run, shout and rant at WJ and other not your own side. I’ve played a half decent level of sport and only ever got a rollicking like that when we were embarrassingly beaten. 

[McSpredder]

7 hours ago, stagboy said:

The tiny number of lead-Taliban keyboard warriors are utterly unrepresentative of the pragmatic and sensible majority.

There are about 700,000 FAC/SGC holders in UK.   How many did you have to contact in order to find out the majority opinion?

[ClemFandango]

47 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

There are about 700,000 FAC/SGC holders in UK.   How many did you have to contact in order to find out the majority opinion?

350,001

[Konor]

1 hour ago, ClemFandango said:

350,001

Only if the 350,001 have the same opinion 

[motty]

5 hours ago, andrewluke said:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dumped+pheasants

This is pretty unreliable.

[Scully]

5 hours ago, andrewluke said:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dumped+pheasants

Right! Am back home. 🙂

I’m assuming the video you linked to is the one which was doing the rounds towards the end of the 2018/19 season, and indeed did show a digger shovelling pheasant carcasses into a wood. What it didn’t say however, was that the carcasses had been processed to the extent the breast meat was removed, by the shoot itself, before burying. As far as I’m aware this is not illegal, but am more than willing to hold my hand up if I’m wrong. 
The shoot and the Estate were thoroughly lambasted and criticised by the NGO and their membership to that organisation cancelled.  I phoned the NGO to ask why they hadn’t supported but in fact hung out to dry, the shoot.

I was told that although the shoot had done nothing illegal, they had processed the birds outside the correct quidelines and best practice procedures, in that ( if I recall ) they did not have the correct facilities to do so, nor disposed of the processed carcasses in the same best practise procedures.
They had no facilities to incinerate the carcasses, but if they had, and had in fact done so, then they would have done nothing wrong. 
It’s all about traceability.
I can give a couple of brace to a restaurant in feather and that’s fine, the onus is then on the restaurant owner to do the right thing regards processing etc, but once it’s done on an industrial scale, or you start off the processing process yourself, and don’t have the necessary requirements,  a multitude of rules and regulations come into play. 

[andrewluke]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

Right! Am back home. 🙂

I’m assuming the video you linked to is the one which was doing the rounds towards the end of the 2018/19 season, and indeed did show a digger shovelling pheasant carcasses into a wood. What it didn’t say however, was that the carcasses had been processed to the extent the breast meat was removed, by the shoot itself, before burying. As far as I’m aware this is not illegal, but am more than willing to hold my hand up if I’m wrong. 
The shoot and the Estate were thoroughly lambasted and criticised by the NGO and their membership to that organisation cancelled.  I phoned the NGO to ask why they hadn’t supported but in fact hung out to dry, the shoot.

I was told that although the shoot had done nothing illegal, they had processed the birds outside the correct quidelines and best practice procedures, in that ( if I recall ) they did not have the correct facilities to do so, nor disposed of the processed carcasses in the same best practise procedures.
They had no facilities to incinerate the carcasses, but if they had, and had in fact done so, then they would have done nothing wrong. 
It’s all about traceability.
I can give a couple of brace to a restaurant in feather and that’s fine, the onus is then on the restaurant owner to do the right thing regards processing etc, but once it’s done on an industrial scale, or you start off the processing process yourself, and don’t have the necessary requirements,  a multitude of rules and regulations come into play. 

i haven't linked any particular video just a list of examples

[Scully]

15 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

i haven't linked any particular video just a list of examples

Fair enough; are they all as they claim, or is there another story behind each headline? It’s rarely as black and white as it first appears. 
I’m only asking as I’ve yet to see irrefutable evidence that everything is as claimed. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Scully

[ClemFandango]

1 hour ago, Konor said:

Only if the 350,001 have the same opinion 

Near enough. 

[old'un]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

Fair enough; are they all as they claim, or is there another story behind each headline? It’s rarely as black and white as it first appears. 
I’m only asking as I’ve yet to see irrefutable evidence that everything is as claimed. 

For whatever reason there is a small amount of dumping of unprocessed birds but one of the big problems is like the video showing a tractor dumping a large amount of processed birds and to a lesser degree the dumping of processed birds on a small scale, the antis get tipoff’s of where this is likely to be happening and setup covert cameras to capture this, the footage is then sent to the media and also posted on social media sites with eye catching headlines, unfortunately most of the public do not have a clue of what’s involved with animal processing and only see the images, the headline and the story the antis feed them, some shoots do need to get their act together and stop giving the antis a stick to beat us with.

[Scully]

17 minutes ago, old'un said:

For whatever reason there is a small amount of dumping of unprocessed birds but one of the big problems is like the video showing a tractor dumping a large amount of processed birds and to a lesser degree the dumping of processed birds on a small scale, the antis get tipoff’s of where this is likely to be happening and setup covert cameras to capture this, the footage is then sent to the media and also posted on social media sites with eye catching headlines, unfortunately most of the public do not have a clue of what’s involved with animal processing and only see the images, the headline and the story the antis feed them, some shoots do need to get their act together and stop giving the antis a stick to beat us with.

I agree, the big shoots need to get their acts together, but again, if you have proof of the mass dumping of unprocessed birds ( which isn’t illegal, but morally and ethically wrong ) then share it. 

[old'un]

27 minutes ago, Scully said:

I agree, the big shoots need to get their acts together, but again, if you have proof of the mass dumping of unprocessed birds ( which isn’t illegal, but morally and ethically wrong ) then share it. 

I did not say I had proof of mass dumping of unprocessed birds, I have seen small scale dumping of 10 or 20 unprocessed birds, but I did add for whatever reason, I think you have missed the main point I was trying to make and that was of the publics perception of the videos showing large scale dumping of processed birds and the headlines that accompany them.

[Scully]

19 minutes ago, old'un said:

I did not say I had proof of mass dumping of unprocessed birds, I have seen small scale dumping of 10 or 20 unprocessed birds, but I did add for whatever reason, I think you have missed the main point I was trying to make and that was of the publics perception of the videos showing large scale dumping of processed birds and the headlines that accompany them.

My apologies, I misunderstood. We have on occasion dumped the odd ‘pillowcases’ from the bag, and I agree entirely with the point you were making.
For example, a video I saw some years ago claimed to have proof of hundreds of dumped pheasants in a wood. On closer examination it turned out there were around a dozen or so, and the photographs consisted of those same dozen birds photographed from a multitude of different angles and the posted as proof of a large haul of dumped unprocessed birds. 
We owe it ourselves to get our act together. 
 

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

For whatever reason there is a small amount of dumping of unprocessed birds but one of the big problems is like the video showing a tractor dumping a large amount of processed birds and to a lesser degree the dumping of processed birds on a small scale, the antis get tipoff’s of where this is likely to be happening and setup covert cameras to capture this, the footage is then sent to the media and also posted on social media sites with eye catching headlines, unfortunately most of the public do not have a clue of what’s involved with animal processing and only see the images, the headline and the story the antis feed them, some shoots do need to get their act together and stop giving the antis a stick to beat us with.

I think its all about the headlines too, Look at packham now these dead things on his house gate etc, the pheasant dumping. And now think back years too the Fox hunt ban, 20+foxes dumped in lanes around the country, it is all about grabbing the media, holding focussed attention.

 These people are not about loving animals at all its ideology gone mad, some deaths are acceptable for the greater good. They are fanatics.

 The whole packham/ crow/ gate thing, is ludicrous. Not saying he has anything directly to do with it, but it has to be noted its rather convenient.

I get lots of foxes , just saying. And to get the amount they were dumping back then, they were busy lads, connected a few gathering them to do that.. .

[Penelope]

On 14/03/2020 at 23:32, clangerman said:

are you calling me a liar? i seen the game in his truck for MYSELF 

This old boy, he takes away game for processing? For whom or what? Hardly unwanted, if he is processing it, is it?

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, lancer425 said:

I think its all about the headlines too, Look at packham now these dead things on his house gate etc, the pheasant dumping. And now think back years too the Fox hunt ban, 20+foxes dumped in lanes around the country, it is all about grabbing the media, holding focussed attention.

 These people are not about loving animals at all its ideology gone mad, some deaths are acceptable for the greater good. They are fanatics.

 The whole packham/ crow/ gate thing, is ludicrous. Not saying he has anything directly to do with it, but it has to be noted its rather convenient.

I get lots of foxes , just saying. And to get the amount they were dumping back then, they were busy lads, connected a few gathering them to do that.. .

Indeed it is and assuming that Packham and/or any of his ilk had nothing to do with it, another description is infantile. This is why it can be a mistake to either insult or even concur with such especially when someone has gone to a great deal of effort to put across a point of view when it is generally accepted that in reverting to insults is an admission of defeat for the cause which otherwise may well have proved to be valid. So instead of kicking the old buffers into touch, their presence alone can be a steadying influence against such rash actions. From what I'm seeing, I'm not absolutely convinced that the knowledge - or lack of it -  displayed by many of the younger live quarry shooters is such that they can not be let loose unsupervised. Sufficient funds to buy the transport, clothing, guns, ammunition and a peg where appropriate does not a shooter make. Although not directly aimed at the game shooters, but the Guns in general, BASC recognised this fact some 40 odd years back and the position has certainly not improved since then.

 

[old'un]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

My apologies, I misunderstood. We have on occasion dumped the odd ‘pillowcases’ from the bag, and I agree entirely with the point you were making.
For example, a video I saw some years ago claimed to have proof of hundreds of dumped pheasants in a wood. On closer examination it turned out there were around a dozen or so, and the photographs consisted of those same dozen birds photographed from a multitude of different angles and the posted as proof of a large haul of dumped unprocessed birds. 
We owe it ourselves to get our act together. 
 

No need for apologies, I am one of the worst at getting it wrong, well according to the wife I am.

Coming back on topic but mixing it up a bit, one of the reasons steel shot is being pushed is any game shot with steel is more saleable, well so we are told.

I then find myself asking the question, will sales increase if the market is presented with steel shot birds? or will it still be the case of game dealers being unable to move such large numbers of birds come mid-season?

Edited March 16, 2020 by old'un

[Farmboy91]

3 hours ago, old'un said:

No need for apologies, I am one of the worst at getting it wrong, well according to the wife I am.

Coming back on topic but mixing it up a bit, one of the reasons steel shot is being pushed is any game shot with steel is more saleable, well so we are told.

I then find myself asking the question, will sales increase if the market is presented with steel shot birds? or will it still be the case of game dealers being unable to move such large numbers of birds come mid-season?

You never know, we might end up having to release more birds 😏😂

[rbrowning2]

1 hour ago, Farmboy91 said:

You never know, we might end up having to release more birds 😏😂

Or the same,  or less birds if WJ get their way and then due to the theory of supply and demand the price will go up.

[Farmboy91]

17 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Or the same,  or less birds if WJ get their way and then due to the theory of supply and demand the price will go up.

Be interesting though won't it.

[lancer425]

8 hours ago, wymberley said:

Indeed it is and assuming that Packham and/or any of his ilk had nothing to do with it, another description is infantile. This is why it can be a mistake to either insult or even concur with such especially when someone has gone to a great deal of effort to put across a point of view when it is generally accepted that in reverting to insults is an admission of defeat for the cause which otherwise may well have proved to be valid. So instead of kicking the old buffers into touch, their presence alone can be a steadying influence against such rash actions. From what I'm seeing, I'm not absolutely convinced that the knowledge - or lack of it -  displayed by many of the younger live quarry shooters is such that they can not be let loose unsupervised. Sufficient funds to buy the transport, clothing, guns, ammunition and a peg where appropriate does not a shooter make. Although not directly aimed at the game shooters, but the Guns in general, BASC recognised this fact some 40 odd years back and the position has certainly not improved since then.

 

WJ packham and co need to hog the media, he is a media tart he loves it.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, not seen him on tv lately

[lancer425]

10 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, not seen him on tv lately

He will be self isolating.

[oldypigeonpopper]

6 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

He will be self isolating.

😀