lancer425 Posted March 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Scully said: This is not a poll; it's just another thread. I do not know how to form a poll on here. I did ask to keep any text to five words. But that was futile. If a kind mod could trim the posts leave just the answers yes or no and delete the rest. as suspected its just a zoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 No. For vermin where conditions permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, wymberley said: They've already negated that option. Yes Phase out Lead. Whatever^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Yes clay grounds as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Yes. but do it sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmb Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 Yes 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AULD YIN Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB7 Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 No. Never had trouble with excess game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad93 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 NO. Stop the massive shoots, no one needs to shoot 500 birds a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Brad93 said: NO. Stop the massive shoots, no one needs to shoot 500 birds a day. And again....tell me what banning lead has to do with ‘the massive shoots’? Those ‘massive shoots’ will simply continue with steel! What makes you think the banning of lead is going to have any effect on big shoots? Think about it; It’s not exactly rocket science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Brad93 said: NO. Stop the massive shoots, no one needs to shoot 500 birds a day. My thoughts exactly. If they can't sell the 200 birds from a fairly big day in this country to be sold in this country, i don't believe the market is suddenly going to want an extra 300 because they've been shot by a different substance. Not that it bothers the shooters, they've paid the day, most might not be aware or even care where these birds go, they've had there day and will do so again. Selling a phesant is going to be a longer and harder to market than the way leads getting pushed out of our lives. Not everybody has the taste for game, and before the ******** of being a starving country comes to play, we ain't. And I'm not actually against steel. I use it if it's on offer and is reasonably priced. But to sell game it makes perfect sense to me from a marketing point of view. People who might try it once would - I guarantee - if 2 servings were put infront of them in a sample section like you see in a supermarket, in a big city, not a small rural country shop, one labelled lead shot, one labelled non lead shot, the non lead would be tried 90% more than the lead shot. Which is why its always bothered me why you only see game meats sold at game fairs where your average Joe from a council estate isn't going to try it as he won't be there. There's a idea for the shooting orgs, get some stands in supermarkets seeing as it's part of their business now with the pushing out of lead to sell game. And plastic Wads.... Well no need to argue that other than from the cost factors. But shouldn't if of been legislation that if you keep what you kill, or via pest control, use what you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, Scully said: And again....tell me what banning lead has to do with ‘the massive shoots’? Those ‘massive shoots’ will simply continue with steel! What makes you think the banning of lead is going to have any effect on big shoots? Think about it; It’s not exactly rocket science! because basc said that one reason to get rid of lead was that the EU wanted lead free game which is supplied by "massive shoots" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 shot game is worth less than 10p a bird(that what it says in link below) to the game shoots,so why not give it away and it stay in this country(to less well off or pet food), https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/popular-reads/selling-game-105644 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strimmer_13 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, andrewluke said: shot game is worth less than 10p a bird(that what it says in link below) to the game shoots,so why not give it away and it stay in this country(to less well off or pet food), https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/popular-reads/selling-game-105644 That that report ****ed up the first half of my argument 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB7 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Scully said: And again....tell me what banning lead has to do with ‘the massive shoots’? Those ‘massive shoots’ will simply continue with steel! What makes you think the banning of lead is going to have any effect on big shoots? Think about it; It’s not exactly rocket science! So the big shoots can (so they think) justify their shooting by claiming a market for the birds shot and not simply dumping them. They (the shoots and Org's like basc) know that if anything is going to put an end to shooting sports, it's the image of these days being carried out with birds being tossed aside, which the public will not stand for. That's why we are having this debate now in 2020. The thing I don't understand is; if they think by getting game into Waitrose will secure 'our' sport (through the use of non-lead shot), do that not think the anti's will simply question why game meat isn't farmed like other foods for supermarkets, instead of being shot out of the sky by rich city folk (the image portrayed by anti's and unfortunately believed by some). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, andrewluke said: because basc said that one reason to get rid of lead was that the EU wanted lead free game which is supplied by "massive shoots" Ok. So tell me....because up to now, no matter how often I ask this question no one has yet been able to give an answer.....how is the banning of lead shot going to make the ‘massive shoots’ less massive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 lidl tesco sainsbury morrison’s asda aldi all within walking distance of the huge estate i live next to as most couldn’t spell waitrose let alone have one to buy steel shot game in where is this big rush to buy steel shot game coming from because none of them will be part of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, clangerman said: lidl tesco sainsbury morrison’s asda aldi all within walking distance of the huge estate i live next to as most couldn’t spell waitrose let alone have one to buy steel shot game in where is this big rush to buy steel shot game coming from because none of them will be part of it it was probably the customers of wiatorse that shot the game in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 minute ago, andrewluke said: it was probably the customers of wiatorse that shot the game in the first place i’m serous on this one millions of pounds being taken by local supermarkets and apart from tesco selling a few quietly because joe public does not like game shooting where are all these customers going to appear from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurs 14 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 I’d like to say no , but it’s going to happen , let’s get ahead of this before we’re forced too and before were left with no alternatives , so yes to giving up lead ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 58 minutes ago, BrowningB7 said: So the big shoots can (so they think) justify their shooting by claiming a market for the birds shot and not simply dumping them. They (the shoots and Org's like basc) know that if anything is going to put an end to shooting sports, it's the image of these days being carried out with birds being tossed aside, which the public will not stand for. That's why we are having this debate now in 2020. The thing I don't understand is; if they think by getting game into Waitrose will secure 'our' sport (through the use of non-lead shot), do that not think the anti's will simply question why game meat isn't farmed like other foods for supermarkets, instead of being shot out of the sky by rich city folk (the image portrayed by anti's and unfortunately believed by some). So tell me, how is the banning of lead shot going to make the shooting of game more justifiable, big bags or small? When you’ve got time, could you also post a link to those shoots which you claim are ‘dumping’ game rather than claiming a market for it? Cheers. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 especially for clays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrowningB7 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Scully said: So tell me, how is the banning of lead shot going to make the shooting of game more justifiable, big bags or small? When you’ve got time, could you also post a link to those shoots which you claim are ‘dumping’ game rather than claiming a market for it? Cheers. 👍 In my view banning lead shot won't make shooting more justifiable! It's those that are claiming that we need to lose lead shot or lose our shooting. The Org's and certain people involved in big let days etc and arguing hard that if we do not get game to table, and start using steel it will be difficult to continue fighting the attacks on shooting and it will be lost forever. I and others have argued that we (those involved with smaller shoots) have never had a problem with disposing game, everything we shoot is eaten regardless of what it's shot with (hence justifiable) . This move to push out lead is to protect the big shoots and improve their image. Im not claiming shoots are dumping birds, this is the image the likes of Wild Justice and others are pussing on any media platform they can, out to the general public. This is the image shooting org's and big shoots want to move away from. It doesn't help though when shoots on one hand are putting on 300-500 bird days twice a week, then claiming dealers won't take the birds and cnt find any outlet for them. What are people supposed to think! If given the choice to phase out lead or not, I would argue not. Why: because (in the here and now) this is based on protecting the interests of those shooting big bird days, not based on any evidence of the 'direct' effects of game shooting with lead, here or in Europe. Oh, and protecting basc's £100k involvement in getting game into Waitrose. What's better for protecting game shooting, losing lead or losing big bag days? I would argue losing big bag days. Edit: after reading back my previous post it does come across that I claim big shoots are dumping birds. What I was trying to get across was the image being portrayed by anti's on game shooting, backed up with the industry claiming we don't have an outlet when we use lead, just like the misconception among most of the public that game shooting is undertaken by the wealthy or well off city folk. Edited March 20, 2020 by BrowningB7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 9 hours ago, BrowningB7 said: In my view banning lead shot won't make shooting more justifiable! It's those that are claiming that we need to lose lead shot or lose our shooting. The Org's and certain people involved in big let days etc and arguing hard that if we do not get game to table, and start using steel it will be difficult to continue fighting the attacks on shooting and it will be lost forever. I and others have argued that we (those involved with smaller shoots) have never had a problem with disposing game, everything we shoot is eaten regardless of what it's shot with (hence justifiable) . This move to push out lead is to protect the big shoots and improve their image. Im not claiming shoots are dumping birds, this is the image the likes of Wild Justice and others are pussing on any media platform they can, out to the general public. This is the image shooting org's and big shoots want to move away from. It doesn't help though when shoots on one hand are putting on 300-500 bird days twice a week, then claiming dealers won't take the birds and cnt find any outlet for them. What are people supposed to think! If given the choice to phase out lead or not, I would argue not. Why: because (in the here and now) this is based on protecting the interests of those shooting big bird days, not based on any evidence of the 'direct' effects of game shooting with lead, here or in Europe. Oh, and protecting basc's £100k involvement in getting game into Waitrose. What's better for protecting game shooting, losing lead or losing big bag days? I would argue losing big bag days. Edit: after reading back my previous post it does come across that I claim big shoots are dumping birds. What I was trying to get across was the image being portrayed by anti's on game shooting, backed up with the industry claiming we don't have an outlet when we use lead, just like the misconception among most of the public that game shooting is undertaken by the wealthy or well off city folk. You ( and others ) are looking at this from the perspective of someone who assumes driven shoots ( of any size ) exist to cater to a demand for game meat....they don’t. None of them. Your shoot, my shoot, and everyone else’s shoot, exists because there are people who enjoy shooting. That’s you, me and everyone else in this forum. The ‘massive’ commercial shoots became so because of a demand for driven shooting, regardless of whether there was or is a demand for the by product...eg, dead birds. Like the ‘massive’ shoots, the lesser shoots, like yours and mine, exist for the sole purpose of the enjoyment, challenge, entertainment of shooting, and not because there is a demand for dead game birds. Many on here, advocate the taking of a brace or two home at the end of a driven days shooting, and that is to be applauded, but if you believe this, then I’m assuming you all stop shooting when you’ve shot a couple of brace each. If not then why not? Any surplus is shot for what reason? If lead is banned, would you stop buying and rearing those 100, 300, 500 birds you do each season, and then releasing them to shoot each season? If the answer is no, then why would you think the banning of lead will stop the ‘massive’ shoots from carrying on as you do? There is NO demand for game birds on the same scale as there is for chicken, but there IS a demand to shoot game birds. Those who want to justify what they shoot need to create that demand, and if people won’t buy that product because it may contain a toxic metal, then it has to go. What would you rather do, lose lead or lose your shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylag Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 If there were game on the shelves now,never mind what it was shot with people would stock up .😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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