Update from BASC / DEFRA

[strimmer_13]

Problem is my shooting is a 40min drive away. And I know he wants me to go hit the birds as he's a bit gung ho, but I'm not going to drive down the a303 until I can justify it. It might lose my permission but so be it. 

Hasn't been a great start for the last 2 years... 

But, in all honesty, if I was back home on the mountains, where most of my perms were in fields behind the house and all around, i'd be out blasting foxes without hesitation. 

[Dave-G]

Given certificate holders have been heavily screened by the police and found to be law abiding and responsible members of the public, the first two BASC considerations should be all that is needed for legal shooters social distancing on authorised private property. And MOST won't travel far to get there on currently very quiet roads.

I have always been very pro BASC but my feelings are they look to be rolling over - the last three considerations seem to be fluffed up ways out of funding occasional legal support.

Its time to show members and Defra they are fighting our corner.

 

[clangerman]

13 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

Given certificate holders have been heavily screened by the police and found to be law abiding and responsible members of the public, the first two BASC considerations should be all that is needed for legal shooters social distancing on authorised private property. And MOST won't travel far to get there on currently very quiet roads.

I have always been very pro BASC but my feelings are they look to be rolling over - the last three considerations seem to be fluffed up ways out of funding occasional legal support.

Its time to show members and Defra they are fighting our corner.

 

don’t think the drive comes into it you can crash going to the shop or so called essential work if cutting people’s hedges is acceptable so is sitting in a empty field 

[Dougy]

 

Its like asking the Mrs to pick a pair of shoes, 

 

ITS EITHER        YES !!!!   OR   NO!!!! 

 

 

More accidents happen in the home than just about anywhere else, so statistically your far better off in a field.  

Edited March 30, 2020 by Dougy

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, old'un said:

I think you would be safe venturing out if you have a specific request from a farmer to shoot pigeons/blacks on specified field/s and you are carrying that written request or text with you.

Good point that , I wonder how many have got written permission off the land owner if the police or whoever asked to see it , I would guess not every body and would advise to do so a s a p.

We issue permits to shoot in the woods for four Saturday afternoons in February , on them it state what you can shoot such as Jays , Crows and Pigeons , to get these permits in the first place you have to give your s g c details , and then you have to keep them on you, or in the motor while you are shooting for the four weeks , better to be safe than sorry 

[JDog]

Through the wonders of modern technology an email to your phone or several emails from several farmers would surely do the trick?

[Dave-G]

David, with regards to the BASC FAQ's listed towards the bottom of this page:

https://basc.org.uk/coronavirus/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=SocialSignIn&fbclid=IwAR0pZs-iq2iBwGFsy-aEPIXHIQThHxEGDaa-D1mXssEU1l3-HSnsZqxJ4Ng

Would you consider an anonymous Q and A section where shooters can put a specific scenario, with individual circumstances up for an individualised position BASC would be willing to endorse, support or otherwise?

[Scully]

4 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

Scully - Yes it is a Unique Reference Number, it's part of the agreement with the landowner - the public have free access to the land and the owner's do not want Armed Response units turning up every 10 minutes - never been a problem over the last 3 + years but now TVP have decided that they will play God - much the same as with the FAC renewal forms where they freely admit to working outside Government guidelines.

So once you’ve got the ok from the landowner, you also have to seek the ok from the police? Or is it that in normal circumstances seek the landowners permission and then just tell the police you’re going and they then issue the URN? 
So in this case, your mates have sought the landowners permission, who has consented, but the police have said said no, in which case without the URN you can’t go? 
This open to interpretation lark is farcical and doesn’t help anyone. 

[Dave-G]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

So once you’ve got the ok from the landowner, you also have to seek the ok from the police? Or is it that in normal circumstances seek the landowners permission and then just tell the police you’re going and they then issue the URN? 
So in this case, your mates have sought the landowners permission, who has consented, but the police have said said no, in which case without the URN you can’t go? 
This open to interpretation lark is farcical and doesn’t help anyone. 

And that's possibly getting past a busy call handler who doesn't like shooting... as an example of how ridiculous the rigmarole is.

[ShootingEgg]

5 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

And that's possibly getting past a busy call handler who doesn't like shooting... as an example of how ridiculous the rigmarole is.

Also what we see as essential protection, the officer(s) who attend a call out from public after hearing shots, might not. So then we are at a situation where we'd get a fine for what they deem non essential. 

[clangerman]

after the lack of proper response from defra i’m ringing some perms tomorrow if they are happy i hit the drillings having the sense not to touch the perm gates or contact anyone i will decide if to go or not 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Also what we see as essential protection, the officer(s) who attend a call out from public after hearing shots, might not. So then we are at a situation where we'd get a fine for what they deem non essential. 

I’m getting fed up of BASC bashing ... I don’t enjoy it! I’d rather an organisation that I could be proud of 😞 ... but once again I have to complain! 
 

This is no different than other guidance they have put it ... the situation remains as clear as mud! 
 

As shootingEgg says, until they deem what is essential and what isn’t, then it’s worthless putting out these announcements just to say they are doing something. 
 

It clearly states that recreational shooting is off limit. Im not a paid pest controller and neither are the vast vast majority of shooters. We mostly all do it recreationally, even when the work is argued to be essentially. 
 

 

Also nice of BASC to state clearly that it’s down to each of us really, and we must consider our tickets at risk! So if anyone goes out now based off their half cocked advice... they can say they put that clause in and it’s not their fault if they lose their ticket. 

[clangerman]

14 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

I’m getting fed up of BASC bashing ... I don’t enjoy it! I’d rather an organisation that I could be proud of 😞 ... but once again I have to complain! 
 

This is no different than other guidance they have put it ... the situation remains as clear as mud! 
 

As shootingEgg says, until they deem what is essential and what isn’t, then it’s worthless putting out these announcements just to say they are doing something. 
 

It clearly states that recreational shooting is off limit. Im not a paid pest controller and neither are the vast vast majority of shooters. We mostly all do it recreationally, even when the work is argued to be essentially. 
 

 

Also nice of BASC to state clearly that it’s down to each of us really, and we must consider our tickets at risk! So if anyone goes out now based off their half cocked advice... they can say they put that clause in and it’s not their fault if they lose their ticket. 

after cheshire backed a shooter the police would be hard pushed now to do little more than ask you to pack up any claims of taking your ticket would be scaremongering 

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

after cheshire backed a shooter the police would be hard pushed now to do little more than ask you to pack up any claims of taking your ticket would be scaremongering 

We've read claims that tickets have been lost but until we see some evidence I'm thinking they are tosh from someone desperate to make a case.

Also I think BASC have shot themselves in the foot and alienated a lot of members with that trash trying to look like they are doing something. They should be getting us any pest control exceptions with social distancing just like many other lobbyists or business's have.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Dave-G

[clangerman]

9 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

We've read claims that tickets have been lost but until we see some evidence I'm thinking they are tosh from someone desperate to make a case.

exactly all being said to stop people going out defra had their chance time to make our own choices 

[ShootingEgg]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I’m getting fed up of BASC bashing ... I don’t enjoy it! I’d rather an organisation that I could be proud of 😞 ... but once again I have to complain! 
 

This is no different than other guidance they have put it ... the situation remains as clear as mud! 
 

As shootingEgg says, until they deem what is essential and what isn’t, then it’s worthless putting out these announcements just to say they are doing something. 
 

It clearly states that recreational shooting is off limit. Im not a paid pest controller and neither are the vast vast majority of shooters. We mostly all do it recreationally, even when the work is argued to be essentially. 
 

 

Also nice of BASC to state clearly that it’s down to each of us really, and we must consider our tickets at risk! So if anyone goes out now based off their half cocked advice... they can say they put that clause in and it’s not their fault if they lose their ticket. 

The problem is that this is not BASCs advice, its defra, BASC have asked for clarity and have been handed a glass of chocolate milkshake. They try to get answers but get **** back. 

[David BASC]

Its not possible for BASC to give specific advice, simply because its not BASC that is making the rues, all we can do is report back what DEFRA have said and based our general advice on that.

As and when anything changes we will of course let everyone know.

[PeterHenry]

2 minutes ago, David BASC said:

Its not possible for BASC to give specific advice, simply because its not BASC that is making the rues, all we can do is report back what DEFRA have said and based our general advice on that.

As and when anything changes we will of course let everyone know.

Hi David,

Just a thought that may put some peoples minds at rest.

Can you confirm one way or another if BASC have run their possition past legal counsel of some kind?

Best,

Peter

[old'un]

On the news this morning, reports of complaints about the heavy handed approach some police forces are taking, they have been told to tone down their approach to people who have driven to local beauty spots for a walk, Avon and Somerset police have said they are policing by consensus.

I wonder if that toned down approach will apply to shooting? 

Some of the new guidance issued to police

·  communities must receive a "consistent" level of service from officers as well as a "single style and tone"

·  police should keep an "inquisitive, questioning mindset" when finding out why people are outside.

Edited March 31, 2020 by old'un

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, David BASC said:

Its not possible for BASC to give specific advice, simply because its not BASC that is making the rues, all we can do is report back what DEFRA have said and based our general advice on that.

As and when anything changes we will of course let everyone know.

Exactly this, DEFRA make the muddy water, not BASC. But @David BASC I would ask that you go back and push for a more clear answer. Make them state the rule, not us guess at what might be okay. I have a veg farmer who needs pigeon and deer control, but why should I now risk the police kicking my behind because they make up their own rules. 

[oowee]

4 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Exactly this, DEFRA make the muddy water, not BASC. But @David BASC I would ask that you go back and push for a more clear answer. Make them state the rule, not us guess at what might be okay. I have a veg farmer who needs pigeon and deer control, but why should I now risk the police kicking my behind because they make up their own rules. 

It's not DEFRA that can give you advice on how  the local police might be interpreting the rules. 

I think what would be helpful, within the gift of BASC, is for them to confirm that;  if you have a specific request to attend, confirming that serious harm is being done to a crop and that you can attend to deal with the issue whilst maintaining social distance that you will be covered by BASC insurance and legal services. Such that if local police zealot comes in heavy handed that BASC services will be available to fight your corner.

@David BASC may have a view on this as it would certainly give me more confidence feeling I am not on my own out to dry. 

 

[Farmboy91]

I did read somewhere the suggestion of the farmer going out and doing it himself, which is a complete non starter for me as neither of mine shoot, hence the reason I've got the permissions. Same goes for having a pest controller in, why would he pay for something I will do for free?

Neither have been out drilling though as I can see both farms from the bedroom window.

[David BASC]

Yes we are seeking further clarification

No we have not asked for a separate legal view, not sure what they would achieve, when we have been given guidance by Defra in relation to the UK Gov rules.

Yes you are covered by the BASC insurance, as you always have been, when shooting legally

David

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It's not DEFRA that can give you advice on how  the local police might be interpreting the rules.

@David BASC

 

But the govt give out the do and don't list, owhich police then interpret pretty much any which way they feel on any given day. Just look at the way social distancing means a million different things to each force.. 

[oowee]

1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

But the govt give out the do and don't list, owhich police then interpret pretty much any which way they feel on any given day. Just look at the way social distancing means a million different things to each force.. 

Yes they do, however as you say the police interpret this pretty much any way they feel so all that we can do is apply the rules as we are given them. DEFRA have said we can shoot within these rules. BASC provide you insurance when shooting legally so you can go out shooting safely within the law. If some police officer then takes it upon themselves to interpret the law differently then you can challenge that interpretation. I guess this is always the case except now we have this hightened situation f the lock down with higher levels of evidence likely to be required.