How much are we being told lies about!!

[TRINITY]

10 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

Yeah but if everybody has more. And then you reprint money to reflect your assets. How has anybody gained anything? It's all relative surely. 

So basically anybody who has lived recklessly blown all their money got highly into debt will get a fresh start. Then the others who have lived well within their means. Lived modest life styles and saved a little for later life will loose out.

[Bobba]

41 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

If it's as bad as the 2008 crash, I say tot up people's assets, anything over say a million, gets redistributed and currency reprinted, debt reset to zero. Tell me, how many average people would loose?

If you've time on your hands during lockdown you may find it interesting to compare your theory of economics with those of John Maynard Keynes (Keynesian economics) and Milton Friedman (Monetarism). Very educative.

[AVB]

54 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

How would it work if they put the burden on the working masses, again?

I think people have had enough this time, the young in the west have been sold up the river, born into a world where they can barely afford to get buy, let alone raise a family, buy a home, or secure a decent job.

If it's as bad as the 2008 crash, I say tot up people's assets, anything over say a million, gets redistributed and currency reprinted, debt reset to zero. Tell me, how many average people would loose?

Are things as bleak as you make out? I know quite a few ‘youngsters’. The vast majority enjoy a good life, have a range of jobs (and not all high flying jobs either) enjoy reasonably nice cars and holidays and quite a few have bought houses. 

There have always been haves and have nots. My parents had **** all but made the most of it and were happy to the day they died. 

[ClemFandango]

34 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

So basically anybody who has lived recklessly blown all their money got highly into debt will get a fresh start. Then the others who have lived well within their means. Lived modest life styles and saved a little for later life will loose out.

I don't understand the thinking behind it. I also don't see how it would work.  

[TRINITY]

2 minutes ago, ClemFandango said:

I don't understand the thinking behind it. I also don't see how it would work.  

It won't work, but I believe things could be rebalanced a little more evenly with the taxation system. I am also certain that will happen as a result of all this.

(By the way clem ,I really enjoy toast of London, watched every episode)

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

How would it work if they put the burden on the working masses, again?

I think people have had enough this time, the young in the west have been sold up the river, born into a world where they can barely afford to get buy, let alone raise a family, buy a home, or secure a decent job.

If it's as bad as the 2008 crash, I say tot up people's assets, anything over say a million, gets redistributed and currency reprinted, debt reset to zero. Tell me, how many average people would loose?

You've answered a question with a question, just turned around.

I think a lot of people, right now, are just happy to be breathing and otherwise healthy and their short to medium term primary focus is that that continues.

The virus does not distinguish between wealthy and poor at the point of infection, perhaps downstream and the overall outcome.

It's not fully clear to me what you are actually proposing hence my question but it all sounds very socialist and since we just voted in a conservative government take us away from socialist ideals I really don't see what you suggest happening. To be honest I think the government have already gone way beyond what might have reasonably been expected of them, and I'm glad they did.

We are all in this together and whilst I agree with the idea that we should all contribute to the recovery proportionately I don't see why we'd go on a witch hunt against the rich and aristocracy. If things can be manipulated as you suggest then why not just give everybody a lump sum - I'm not advocating this just using it to illustrate a point.

Regarding the 2008 crash, we have no idea of knowing yet but it could make 2008 look like a blip.

43 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

So basically anybody who has lived recklessly blown all their money got highly into debt will get a fresh start. Then the others who have lived well within their means. Lived modest life styles and saved a little for later life will loose out.

This 

21 minutes ago, AVB said:

Are things as bleak as you make out? I know quite a few ‘youngsters’. The vast majority enjoy a good life, have a range of jobs (and not all high flying jobs either) enjoy reasonably nice cars and holidays and quite a few have bought houses. 

There have always been haves and have nots. My parents had **** all but made the most of it and were happy to the day they died. 

And this 

4 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

It won't work, but I believe things could be rebalanced a little more evenly with the taxation system. I am also certain that will happen as a result of all this.

(By the way clem ,I really enjoy toast of London, watched every episode)

And this

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Watch the film containgen made 10 years ago , it’s the script for what’s happening here , seriously a bat causing all this ? Yeah right 

No, a virus is causing this, just like all the other viruses that have jumped from one animal species to another.

[clangerman]

12 minutes ago, henry d said:

No, a virus is causing this, just like all the other viruses that have jumped from one animal species to another.

but HOW convenient is this? mainly taking out the old and sick freeing up their assets economy’s will have to restart way way to convenient for a accident if you ask me 

[12gauge82]

26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You've answered a question with a question, just turned around.

I think a lot of people, right now, are just happy to be breathing and otherwise healthy and their short to medium term primary focus is that that continues.

The virus does not distinguish between wealthy and poor at the point of infection, perhaps downstream and the overall outcome.

It's not fully clear to me what you are actually proposing hence my question but it all sounds very socialist and since we just voted in a conservative government take us away from socialist ideals I really don't see what you suggest happening. To be honest I think the government have already gone way beyond what might have reasonably been expected of them, and I'm glad they did.

We are all in this together and whilst I agree with the idea that we should all contribute to the recovery proportionately I don't see why we'd go on a witch hunt against the rich and aristocracy. If things can be manipulated as you suggest then why not just give everybody a lump sum - I'm not advocating this just using it to illustrate a point.

Regarding the 2008 crash, we have no idea of knowing yet but it could make 2008 look like a blip.

This 

And this 

And this

I can assure you I'm far from a socialist. I agree, the virus is the absolute priority at the moment, but at some point it's going to need to be payed for and expecting the masses to entirely foot the bill this time isn't going to wash, it's not a witch hunt against the rich, but if you want to put it in those terms, there was a witch hunt against the workers last time with the financial crash, it was caused by the very wealthy, paid for by the workers who lost out, through very little fault and the very wealthy profited from it.

Your last point is why I've raised it, if it makes 2008 look like a blip, what's better, drag another financial crisis on for the next 10-20 years, paid for by the workers, or reset the books, reset debt and it'd only be the very few, very wealthy who would loose, everyone else would be better off?

 

[ClemFandango]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

but HOW convenient is this? mainly taking out the old and sick freeing up their assets economy’s will have to restart way way to convenient for a accident if you ask me 

Oh come on. 

 

The "old and the sick" are always more likely to die.  

[clangerman]

Just now, ClemFandango said:

Oh come on. 

 

The "old and the sick" are always more likely to die.  

being old and sick that’s cheered me up lol but seriously it is a possibility 

[AVB]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I can assure you I'm far from a socialist. I agree, the virus is the absolute priority at the moment, but at some point it's going to need to be payed for and expecting the masses to entirely foot the bill this time isn't going to wash, it's not a witch hunt against the rich, but if you want to put it in those terms, there was a witch hunt against the workers last time with the financial crash, it was caused by the very wealthy, paid for by the workers who lost out, through very little fault and the very wealthy profited from it.

Your last point is why I've raised it, if it makes 2008 look like a blip, what's better, drag another financial crisis on for the next 10-20 years, paid for by the workers, or reset the books, reset debt and it'd only be the very few, very wealthy who would loose, everyone else would be better off?

 

Power to the people comrade. You are proposing a communist approach not just socialist. Why not go the whole hog and redistribute the land as well. 

I am against wealth redistribution of any form but out of interest why have you proposed £1mln as the cutoff? I can guarantee that there are a lot of people on PW who, taking into account pension, house and savings have assets well over £1mln and I doubt they would consider themselves extremely rich. 

[Raja Clavata]

If you put aside the ideals, as it were, and look at the practicalities. What's being proposed would kill off numerous industries in a shot.

[henry d]

13 minutes ago, clangerman said:

but HOW convenient is this? mainly taking out the old and sick freeing up their assets economy’s will have to restart way way to convenient for a accident if you ask me 

Not very convenient, wait for the financial crisis to really bite. 

I would also like to ask what information, other than supposition, that you have that leads you to deny it was an "accident"?

[clangerman]

i’m not denying it just saying it COULD be a possibility 

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, AVB said:

Power to the people comrade. You are proposing a communist approach not just socialist. Why not go the whole hog and redistribute the land as well. 

I am against wealth redistribution of any form but out of interest why have you proposed £1mln as the cutoff? I can guarantee that there are a lot of people on PW who, taking into account pension, house and savings have assets well over £1mln and I doubt they would consider themselves extremely rich. 

Im no socialist and certainly no Communist. Million was plucked out of thin air, far bigger brains than me would need to work a figure out, but your right, some on here would fall into a loosing bracket, maybe I'd be one, but rich is a relative term, the multi millionaire who hangs around with billionaires probably doesn't see themselves as rich.

Answer me this, why should the working masses solely pay for this mess, yet again?

[Yellow Bear]

9 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Im no socialist and certainly no Communist. Million was plucked out of thin air, far bigger brains than me would need to work a figure out, but your right, some on here would fall into a loosing bracket, maybe I'd be one, but rich is a relative term, the multi millionaire who hangs around with billionaires probably doesn't see themselves as rich.

Answer me this, why should the working masses solely pay for this mess, yet again?

So the top 1% earners that are paying about 25/30% of the total income tax take are not paying their share then and the top 10% who I believe account for about  2/3 aren't either?

[JDog]

12gauge82

All of your posts, no matter what thread they are on, are all on the same theme of disliking Royalty and those who have made something of their lives by hard work and determination and who may have accumulated wealth along the way and at the same time shouting...' what about the workers?'

If that is not Socialism I don't know what is.

 

[henry d]

16 minutes ago, clangerman said:

i’m not denying it just saying it COULD be a possibility 

Unicorns?

[Nuke]

8 minutes ago, henry d said:

Unicorns?

Unicamel is better.

/M

[millrace]

So China has just reported its highest jump in infections for weeks 108 almost all in people returning to the country,,,,for those that say these arrivals have no affect and make little difference I rest my case!!..

[AVB]

25 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Im no socialist and certainly no Communist. Million was plucked out of thin air, far bigger brains than me would need to work a figure out, but your right, some on here would fall into a loosing bracket, maybe I'd be one, but rich is a relative term, the multi millionaire who hangs around with billionaires probably doesn't see themselves as rich.

Answer me this, why should the working masses solely pay for this mess, yet again?

They didn’t last time and won’t this time. Our taxation system means the more you earn the more you pay. Yes the ‘rich’ (in reality you mean business owners) have more opportunities to reduce their tax liability (as we all should) but vast majority still pay more tax than you or I. 

There are some unpleasant bosses out there - Stuart Green, Mike Ashley to name two but they are outweighed by the vast majority of hard working bosses. 

Why don’t you just come out and name the people who you think should pay for all this? 

3 minutes ago, millrace said:

So China has just reported its highest jump in infections for weeks 108 almost all in people returning to the country,,,,for those that say these arrivals have no affect and make little difference I rest my case!!..

No China say that it is due to people returning which they would say in order to defend the approach they took. There is no independent verification of that. 

[Raja Clavata]

11 minutes ago, JDog said:

12gauge82

All of your posts, no matter what thread they are on, are all on the same theme of disliking Royalty and those who have made something of their lives by hard work and determination and who may have accumulated wealth along the way and at the same time shouting...' what about the workers?'

If that is not Socialism I don't know what is.

 

I didn't want to be the first to suggest this but it's at least the second agenda to rear it's head in this thread, the third if you consider the conspiracy fantasists.

[JDog]

14 minutes ago, millrace said:

So China has just reported its highest jump in infections for weeks 108 almost all in people returning to the country,,,,for those that say these arrivals have no affect and make little difference I rest my case!!..

I wish you would. Your posts are somewhat repetitive.

[Vince Green]

3 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I say tot up people's assets, anything over say a million, gets redistributed and currency reprinted, debt reset to zero. Tell me, how many average people would loose?

An average three bed semi round here is a million

If we did what you suggest, within a year some people would be skint and back in debt and others would be mega rich again 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Vince Green