Government xxxx ups

[Shotguneddy]

Is it just me or is this uk government a laughing stock saying we were well prepared and now ain’t got xxxx for the nhs big sporting events were allowed to carry on, Liverpool football match , Cheltenham, music concerts completely ignoring all the warning signs from multiple country’s, boris  missing important cobra  meetings ,delayed ppe from turkey , apparently 400.000 gowns for hospitals they use 150, 000 a day so back to square 1 in 3 days, incompetent idiots

[discobob]

This is the politics nowadays though - not sound structure - just on what is deemed to be popular. Imagine how much of the electorate it would have ****** off if those events had have been cancelled.

This is all that MP's/Political Parties are concerned about. 

Regarding the NHS - this is another instance of JIT provisioning - great when everything is running smoothly but when you get an interruption everything goes to hell - the Supermarket shortages etc.. in part was another example of this.

Also, if the NHS hadn't been being run at 95% capacity to "save costs", and a large number having to pay PFI payments out of their budget (including extortionate maintenance fees) then they may have been in a better situation to deal with this.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, it will never be any different what ever government is in power, eg horse/stable/door !!!!!

[eggy74]

i think 90% of it is media hyping the issues 

 

[butchdickason]

As previous - 90% or more media hype in my opinion.

[Shotguneddy]

9 minutes ago, eggy74 said:

i think 90% of it is media hyping the issues 

 

They certainly don’t help the situation but 16.000 deaths already plus ones not mentioned in care homes then u get that Jenny Harries saying we well prepared and we set an example to the rest of the world total ****,  no testing no  ppe , turns out we sent a lot of ppe to China now we are begging the ******** that started it all to make us some 

[eggy74]

31 minutes ago, Shotguneddy said:

They certainly don’t help the situation but 16.000 deaths already plus ones not mentioned in care homes then u get that Jenny Harries saying we well prepared and we set an example to the rest of the world total ****,  no testing no  ppe , turns out we sent a lot of ppe to China now we are begging the ******** that started it all to make us some 

i dont understand the fascination with testing, i hear alot of "germany tested millions and that is why their death rate is so low" 

but no one mentions italy have tested more than germany 

or that spain have tested almost as much as germany

yet their death rates are huge compared 

we have built huge hospitals in a matter of weeks and equipped them with thousands of extra icu beds, and managed to organise and procure new ventilators, all while keeping the infection rate low enough so as not to overwhelm the nhs. plenty of other first world countries are not managing to do that

no one is perfect and not every problem can be foreseen, but we can chose to look at the positives or the negatives 

 

[JDog]

1 hour ago, Shotguneddy said:

Is it just me or is this uk government a laughing stock saying we were well prepared and now ain’t got xxxx for the nhs big sporting events were allowed to carry on, Liverpool football match , Cheltenham, music concerts completely ignoring all the warning signs from multiple country’s, boris  missing important cobra  meetings ,delayed ppe from turkey , apparently 400.000 gowns for hospitals they use 150, 000 a day so back to square 1 in 3 days, incompetent idiots

How would you have done things differently?

[Lord v]

Testing is great - but you then have to do something with the information. 

What really helped Germany I think is localised lockdowns - however their political and social set up definitely assists in making that possible. The amount of testing they did made it possible to accurately pinpoint the areas to lockdown. 

Did the UK test enough at the start to make localised lockdowns a reasonable possibility? Probably not if we are being honest. 

Would the political setup and (more importantly) the populace support regional lockdowns in the UK? We will never know, but I think there would be far more resistance to the idea over here. 

[Shotguneddy]

7 minutes ago, JDog said:

How would you have done things differently?

I understand it’s a pandemic and honestly  no country was prepared for a disease no one no’s nothing about(China maybe) but I would of locked down earlier stopped the big events before they happened allowing thousands to possibly spread it amongst each other, then made testing for nhs workers and care homes more widespread and a lot quicker/earlier so that 80 frontline workers weren’t dead , x amount from care homes and 16.000 public, then I would of probably thought to myself there’s a global pandemic in January so we will need crucial  ppe like other countries were using months before us , so let’s mass produce now. Noing  it’s coming for last 2 months ,  then maybe our health system wouldn’t have to use bin bags from b&q

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, discobob said:

Regarding the NHS - this is another instance of JIT provisioning - great when everything is running smoothly but when you get an interruption everything goes to hell - the Supermarket shortages etc.. in part was another example of this.

The situation is a one off, the NHS couldn't possibly have all the extra ppe needed on standby,  and its definitely being jumped on by the media, the people I know who are working in the NHS have said they have enough, at the moment. 

And the supermarket shortages was down to complete and utter imbeciles who went out and cleared the shelves buying three times the amount they normally would. 

[TRINITY]

The last time our country had a crisis like this was back in 1939. PPE was not the problem then ,it was the lack of spitfires and pilots. However the solution was in our hands ,we scraped through. It would have been so different it we needed propellers and other components from places all over the world. We have made a massive mistake in this country by allowing others to provide our need. Try as hard as you can but relying on others is always problematic because you have no control.

Edited April 20, 2020 by TRINITY

[discobob]

19 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The situation is a one off, the NHS couldn't possibly have all the extra ppe needed on standby,  and its definitely being jumped on by the media, the people I know who are working in the NHS have said they have enough, at the moment. 

And the supermarket shortages was down to complete and utter imbeciles who went out and cleared the shelves buying three times the amount they normally would. 

NHS/nationality should have a rolling stock of PPE etc - enough for 3 months (or however long it would take to refocus manufacturing to start producing it).

In part you are correct for the Supermarket shortages - however it isn't the case that we have "run out" of things nationally - for example, Flour. They produce the flour that you and I buy from the supermarket in exactly the numbers that are foretasted. We have never run out of flour - the producers just didn't have any spare capacity to bag it faster to meet the ramped need. Supermarkets had no reserve because they only order in what their systems forecast, and the same for the individual supermarkets - so when Bill decides that I am going to buy 10x what I normally get, and so do all the other "Bill's" (and please don't take this personally if somebody reading this is called Bill :D) the JIT supply chain collapses!!!

7 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

Try as hard as you can but relying on others is always problematic because you have no control.

This as well

[Raja Clavata]

This government took power by a massive majority of the back of "taking back control" - this is their / our opportunity - I hope they take it in due course.

[Mice!]

20 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

The last time our country had a crisis like this was back in 1939. PPE was not the problem then ,it was the lack of spitfires and pilots. However the solution was in our hands ,we scraped through. It would have been so different it we needed propellers and other components from places all over the world. We have made a massive mistake in this country by allowing others to provide our need. Try as hard as you can but relying on others is always problematic because you have no control.

I have always said getting all the little things made abroad could bite us in the A, imagine if China starts getting serious grief from the USA and UK so they decide not to sell us anything!! 

5 minutes ago, discobob said:

NHS/nationality should have a rolling stock of PPE etc - enough for 3 months (or however long it would take to refocus manufacturing to start producing it).

It probably does for normal circumstances but things are simply not normal at the moment. 

And your probably right about JIT, very few companies want to carry stock these days which is money on a shelf never mind stock that has a sell buy date on it.

And BILL needs spanking, but that said we bought as we normally would and haven't gone without bread milk toilet rolls etc. 

[discobob]

27 minutes ago, Mice! said:

It probably does for normal circumstances but things are simply not normal at the moment. I should have clarified further - 3 months at projected emergency levels - what if one of those jihadi factions got hold of a nuke (or a chemical/biological weapon

And your probably right about JIT, very few companies want to carry stock these days which is money on a shelf never mind stock that has a sell buy date on it. Some things yes- milk/eggs/meat - anything less than a month really - but dried pasta lasts for f-in years

And BILL needs spanking, but that said we bought as we normally would and haven't gone without bread milk toilet rolls etc. Same as us - in fact we went without stuff for a while - the only thing that we done was got our delivery of toilet rolls from Amazon brought forward by  a couple of weeks!!

Response in green

[Mice!]

11 minutes ago, discobob said:

Response in green

Toilet rolls from Amazon?? Wouldn't have even thought about it. 

[Cheshirelad]

4 hours ago, Shotguneddy said:

They certainly don’t help the situation but 16.000 deaths already plus ones not mentioned in care homes then u get that Jenny Harries saying we well prepared and we set an example to the rest of the world total ****,  no testing no  ppe , turns out we sent a lot of ppe to China now we are begging the ******** that started it all to make us some 

People usually only get tested when they are already exhibiting symptoms, so it's a total waste of time and money testing everybody. It's easy to criticize, but this is a totally new situation that the country AND THE WORLD is in.

Couch experts are ten a penny, and they have ALL the answers. Idiots.

[toontastic]

3 hours ago, Shotguneddy said:

I understand it’s a pandemic and honestly  no country was prepared for a disease no one no’s nothing about(China maybe) but I would of locked down earlier stopped the big events before they happened allowing thousands to possibly spread it amongst each other, then made testing for nhs workers and care homes more widespread and a lot quicker/earlier so that 80 frontline workers weren’t dead , x amount from care homes and 16.000 public, then I would of probably thought to myself there’s a global pandemic in January so we will need crucial  ppe like other countries were using months before us , so let’s mass produce now. Noing  it’s coming for last 2 months ,  then maybe our health system wouldn’t have to use bin bags from b&q

It's easy writing that now after the event. There are loads of different experts advising the government on when to end lockdown perhaps you can give us the exact date  now as you are apparently the number 1 pandemic expert. Or are you just going to come on here in a few months time and tell us how they lifted it too early/late.

Edited April 20, 2020 by toontastic

[Retsdon]

7 minutes ago, Cheshirelad said:

people usually only get tested when they are already exhibiting symptoms,

Not in South Korea, not in New Zealand, not in Germany, not in Hong Kong, and not in Singapore. And not even here in Saudi where the government this week has started  random mass-testing of asymptomatic people...which explains the recent huge jump in cases. People found to be carrying the virus are quarantined and their contacts traced and  tested too and if they're found positive they're quarantined and their contacts traced and tested, etc, etc.  It's how they got on top if it in Wuhan, South Korea, New Zealand...etc, etc. This was WHO advice back in early February. There's nothing radical about it.

 

20 minutes ago, Cheshirelad said:

Couch experts are ten a penny, and they have ALL the answers. Idiots.

Not really,  -  some couch experts have no answers at all

 

[Raja Clavata]

Just now, Retsdon said:

Not in South Korea, not in New Zealand, not in Germany, not in Hong Kong, and not in Singapore. And not even here in Saudi where the government this week has started  random mass-testing of asymptomatic people...which explains the recent huge jump in cases. People found to be carrying the virus are quarantined and their contacts traced and  tested too and if they're found positive they're quarantined and their contacts traced and tested, etc, etc.  It's how they got on top if it in Wuhan, South Korea, New Zealand...etc, etc. This was WHO advice back in early February. There's nothing radical about it.

Beat me to it. Even a couch potato, or other type of vegetable, should be able to work out you can't formulate a plan to improve something that you can't measure. It's not rocket science.

[TRINITY]

15 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 

. This was WHO advice back in early February. There's nothing radical about it.

 

Early February we got a warning so that's something like 10 weeks ago ! So let's say we did sufficient random testing to do half the population over that period. So 30 million tests in 10 weeks ,that's only 3 million tests a week. Should have been a walk in the park for an half competent government. 

Finding the labs,staff, basic logistics, not to mention all the kits should be extremely easy I would have thought. 

 

[scutt]

OK let say Boris back in Nov wanted to stop any payment to EU so that he could use the money  the to bolster the reserve stock of PPE for the NHS just in case a pandemic was on the way .

Would he have got it thru with a yes vote.

What cuts to any department or tax hike would have been acceptable to fund such a move.

Yes his party is in a strong position now but only from the middle of Dec 2019

Just saying I think any move he could have made would probably have been blocked.

As many have stated hindsight is a great thing.

[JohnfromUK]

3 hours ago, discobob said:

NHS/nationality should have a rolling stock of PPE etc - enough for 3 months (or however long it would take to refocus manufacturing to start producing it).

Apparently PPE 'gowns' (the things they are short of so badly right now) were ordered in quantity 30th January ........ for delivery before/in March (according to someone I heard interviewed on the radio), but delivery has been delayed due to worldwide demand.

[Retsdon]

14 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Beat me to it. Even a couch potato, or other type of vegetable, should be able to work out you can't formulate a plan to improve something that you can't measure. It's not rocket science.

Well, this is the thing. Once you abandon the idea of mass testing you no longer have any idea how many people are infected -or in what locality - other than a guesstimate by the numbers pitching up at hospitals. So how can you plan anything such as when or where to lift a lockdown? It's impossible to formulate coherent policy in an informational void. It simply can't be done. But the thing is, it's doubtful that the UK - particularly England and Wales - still has sufficient local public health staff and infrastructure still standing to  undertake any such testing regime. Decades of budget cuts have seen to that. So I think this aversion to testing isn't so much a policy so much as it is a matter of trying to make a virtue of a necessity. Even if they wanted to it can't be done.

7 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

rly February we got a warning so that's something like 10 weeks ago !

Sure. But then there wasn't the need to mass test. Just institute a vigorous test and trace programme for existing cases and their contacts. But  yes, you're right, in the UK it almost certainly couldn't be done - and that's why they didn't do it. See my post above