LIFTING THE LOCKDOWN!

[TRINITY]

If golf were to be allowed under certain circumstances (no club house etc) if think it is an activity that could take place with just about zero risk. 

It would also be safe to assume that a clay ground could also work within certain limited parameters and have zero risk. Let's hope the cpsa have done all they can to influence the government.

[Vince Green]

7 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

If golf were to be allowed under certain circumstances (no club house etc) if think it is an activity that could take place with just about zero risk. 

It would also be safe to assume that a clay ground could also work within certain limited parameters and have zero risk. Let's hope the cpsa have done all they can to influence the government.

I know the fishing organisations are lobbying the government very hard. The NRA sent out an electronic newsletter last week saying they were in talks over outdoor rifle ranges. My sailing club is saying much the same about sailing as long as the skipper and crew are from the same household. They are also talking about timed laps etc.

I think it will come but with more freedom comes greater responsibility. When you see the images of lads playing football in London Fields yesterday you realise this is not going to be easy.  

[Mice!]

15 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

think it will come but with more freedom comes greater responsibility. When you see the images of lads playing football in London Fields yesterday you realise this is not going to be easy.  

Reading comments on my local Facebook it seems plenty went to the beaches yesterday! Pictures of cars queuing to get into car parks.

The weather was great and people are obviously wanting to get out, but we will have to wait and see what is announced at 7pm

 

[TRINITY]

22 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

 

I think it will come but with more freedom comes greater responsibility. When you see the images of lads playing football in London Fields yesterday you realise this is not going to be easy.  

I agree Vince, 

In my opinion the vast majority of shooters are mature and responsible people. More than capable, if it comes to conducting the sport in a safe and sensible way. My local news also showed a park in Leeds that was rammed with people and there was a group of asians playing a casual game of cricket. The police are now finding it impossible to enforce and they also fear a backlash and all types of criticism if they even tried. Shooters on the other hand are a soft target for them with very little risk fight back .I live in hope that we may get a limited bit of leeway, but not that optimistic

[Mice!]

2 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

Shooters on the other hand are a soft target for them with very little risk fight back .I live in hope that we may get a limited bit of leeway, but not that optimistic

I wouldn't expect shooting to even get a mention it's such a small or niche sport, but if you can golf or fish alone then doing other sports alone should be acceptable,  anything club or group based might still struggle,  but if you can keep your distance in work then it should be doable elsewhere as well.

[clangerman]

i gave up its like watching children waiting for a note from matron whatever they put in the water these days has obviously stopped people thinking for their self anymore it’s ridiculous 

[Lord v]

If they open the clay grounds my finances will be screwed. 😂

[Old farrier]

24 minutes ago, clangerman said:

i gave up its like watching children waiting for a note from matron whatever they put in the water these days has obviously stopped people thinking for their self anymore it’s ridiculous 

Offer a solution to ease the lockdown while still containing the virus 

we all know it can’t go on for ever 

personally think they should get people back to work before any hobbies 

[toxo]

Everything the government is doing/have done tells me that they are going for herd immunity.

It's the cheapest option.

The old and the young are collateral damge. They don't pay taxes.

One of the first things they "relaxed" was fertility treatment. According to Farage there's also been a relaxing of border control in the channel. I read this as an eye to replacing tax payers in the future.

The spacial distancing has never really been policed. I had to go to London  acouple of weeks ago and was amazed. The traffic on the roads was like a normal day.

They've blatantly lied about their readiness to cope with a pandemic and downgraded C19 so their tardiness was less evident inasmuch as the equipment needed looked to be less than it was.

I feel sorry for Matt Hancock in a way because he's had to lie time and again and now it seems they're turning on him. But then again. that is his job.

[TRINITY]

16 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Offer a solution to ease the lockdown while still containing the virus 

we all know it can’t go on for ever 

personally think they should get people back to work before any hobbies 

Yes in a way that's a sound argument. However look at it from the other perspective, gun shops,equipment and ammunition manufactures, commercial shooting grounds. All bonefide industries that provide many livelihoods on the back of a sport.

[Old farrier]

Just now, TRINITY said:

Yes in a way that's a sound argument. However look at it from the other perspective, gun shops,equipment and ammunition manufactures, commercial shooting grounds. All bonefide industries that provide many livelihoods on the back of a sport.

I understand that and realistically we’re looking at it as shooters

fishing rod manufacturing 

charterboat fishing 

tennis racquet makers 

bowles and bowling greens and alleys 

Ice rinks 

fairgrounds 
and all the stuff that goes with them 

I could go on
it’s hard not to be a little selfish at the moment but until the main industry’s and schools are back to near normal I think hobbies should be on the backburner 

and then the industry’s supported by hobbies could resume 

 

[lancer425]

2 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

Yes in a way that's a sound argument. However look at it from the other perspective, gun shops,equipment and ammunition manufactures, commercial shooting grounds. All bonefide industries that provide many livelihoods on the back of a sport.

Unfortunately there is no perfect solution, and i am confident the Government thought of every way they could to keep as much running for as long as possible. But some things are just a bad idea when it comes to trying to stop this virus spreading.   Pubs resteraunts, i dont see this being possible into next year perhaps. And yet i hear they are opening Mcdonalds. KFC etc.  !

Now what form of open that is i have no idea but to me if mcdonalds is open may as well open pubs. Now if its just drive by take away sales fair enough but Open as normal i think thats ridiculous.  But as i pointed out i am not sure what the plan is exactly re Mcds etc.

[flynny]

Let's hope everyone has stalking, shooting, fishing grounds , golf courses and tennis courts that they can walk to eh

 

if you need to travel in a car to the above , there should be no change , say you have a crash eh????

Even if they put a 5 mile radius from your home , there will be MORE idiots in your area going to drive thru burger joints etc  , increasing the risk of an accident ( gotta to have kfc ain't we?????? NOT) 

back to square one , with resources put under pressure, 

 

which was was the whole point of the lockdown in the first place 

 

 

yaaaawwwwnnnnnn

 

flynny

Edited May 10, 2020 by flynny

[AVB]

18 minutes ago, flynny said:

Let's hope everyone has stalking, shooting, fishing grounds , golf courses and tennis courts that they can walk to eh

 

if you need to travel in a car to the above , there should be no change , say you have a crash eh????

Even if they put a 5 mile radius from your home , there will be MORE idiots in your area going to drive thru burger joints etc  , increasing the risk of an accident ( gotta to have kfc ain't we?????? NOT) 

back to square one , with resources put under pressure, 

 

which was was the whole point of the lockdown in the first place 

 

 

yaaaawwwwnnnnnn

 

flynny

The NHS has loads of capacity now. Nobody doubts that now. As as for being trusted to drive. Well the majority of us have managed for years without killing or seriously injuring ourselves in a car crash. I’ve been in more danger with all of the DIY I have been doing recently. 

[Scully]

I couldn’t give a fig about McDonalds, Burger King , Greggs or KFC’s, they’ll survive. I’m more concerned about local independent businesses, so they’ll be getting my business long before I think of the others.

The statement just goes to accentuate how much of an urban base this ‘lockdown’ is targeted upon. 
The new regulations ( as far as I’m aware ) don’t stipulate ‘essential travel only’ , nor ‘stay at home’. If clay grounds open for business I would think we’ll be going. 

[Dave-G]

50 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

I understand that and realistically we’re looking at it as shooters

fishing rod manufacturing 

charterboat fishing 

tennis racquet makers 

bowles and bowling greens and alleys 

Ice rinks 

fairgrounds 
and all the stuff that goes with them 

I could go on
it’s hard not to be a little selfish at the moment but until the main industry’s and schools are back to near normal I think hobbies should be on the backburner 

and then the industry’s supported by hobbies could resume 

 

You don't quite get the very large distance possible in a private field do you? Feel free to carry on being a voluntary recluse. 

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

You don't quite get the very large distance possible in a private field do you? Feel free to carry on being a voluntary recluse. 

I get it more than most people and I’m not a voluntary recluse 

shooting covers a broad spectrum and most shooting is clay grounds and ranges at this time of year 

all sports could be relaxed however until the workplaces and schools are open they should be primary and hobbies secondary 

I think some are not really getting the furlough (paid to stay at home) 

irrespective of the large distance you can obtain in a field it’s the travel to it everything you touch and the time you are motionless it the field 

the relaxation has to be done for the majority not a few 

[clangerman]

it might be ok for the majority to rush back out there on the basis of staying alert controls the virus and saves lives but i’m sticking with staying in and sitting in empty fields one or the other strategies will be proved right hopefully mine 

[TRINITY]

I am of higher risk than normal population and will be keeping to the lockdown and totally adhereing to all prevention methods BUT !  I would also have no problem if allowed to go to a clay ground on a quiet mid week that is being run safely and sensibly. I believe we are adult enough to make the decision ourselves. Like I said in another post this has been a phoney lockdown for a couple of weeks now. A large amount of people no longer take it too seriously, hence queues at Mc Donald's.

As far as not allowing sports and pastimes to resume, surely gardening to a large extent is a pastime or hobby, yet garden centres are opening so hopefully clay grounds will also be allowed. I know which I would feel the safest to frequent.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

2 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

I am of higher risk than normal population and will be keeping to the lockdown and totally adhereing to all prevention methods BUT !  I would also have no problem if allowed to go to a clay ground on a quiet mid week that is being run safely and sensibly. I believe we are adult enough to make the decision ourselves. Like I said in another post this has been a phoney lockdown for a couple of weeks now. A large amount of people no longer take it too seriously, hence queues at Mc Donald's.

As far as not allowing sports and pastimes to resume, surely gardening to a large extent is a pastime or hobby, yet garden centres are opening so hopefully clay grounds will also be allowed. I know which I would feel the safest to frequent.

I was not aware that they had re-opened.

[AVB]

29 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

 

I think some are not really getting the furlough (paid to stay at home)

Furlough is not “getting paid to stay at home” in fact there is nothing to prevent you taking up other employment during this time. It is simply to give your employer some leeway to prevent the need to make you redundant and hence have you available if they restart. 

[flynny]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

The NHS has loads of capacity now. Nobody doubts that now. As as for being trusted to drive. Well the majority of us have managed for years without killing or seriously injuring ourselves in a car crash. I’ve been in more danger with all of the DIY I have been doing recently. 

Couldn't agree more with ALL your comments bud , it's the other idiots on the road we have to watch out for 

 

As for the NHS coping , yes they can at this moment in time..    .   .  As a key worker though ( building Temporary ICU units across the north west ) I can only go on what the health care professionals are telling me at the moment 

We don't want a 2nd wave if we can help it

 

I'm itching to go out , I can get in my car and travel 3 hrs to my stalking ground ( without any interaction with ANYONE and stay in my caravan on 10,000 acres and not see a soul) which I've done for years , without any accidents 

 

But it only takes the one time 

 

Do you get it now!!!!!!

 

 

 

Flynny

[Mungler]

Stolen from elsewhere:

 

 

This graphic is not helpful because it appears to show some terrible situation, but actually 6.6 in a Million (read it properly) is not a problem.  I'd take those odds.

Countries fall into three groups - those who stamped Covid out early, those who ended up with internal transmission and are fighting it, and those who said "sod it".

The UK is in the middle group and can only usefully be compared with the others in that group.

Within that group, 70% (say) of population is going to get the virus, either in this wave or the next.  

Only three things matter:

1) Is the health service overwhelmed or going to be overwhelmed, which actually translates to "is the spread exponential?"

2) What proportion of people who get the disease are dying, which actually translates to "are we treating it properly?"

3) Are we going to kill a huge number of people afterwards which actually translates to "are we destroying the economy?"

The actual number of people dying at any given point is irrelevant, it's the total who have died at the end who matter.

Everyone is doing fine on point 1), because the disease turns out to be less lethal than though.

Pretty much all of Europe except Sweden is doing appallingly on point 3), I think it's madness.

Where the UK is abnormally failing is point 2).  If you get Covid in the UK you seem to be quite likely to snuff it, four times as likely as in Germany, and THAT is a massive problem, and means the UK will indeed have a HUGE death toll at the end and this is what everyone should be focusing on. 

Apparently we all need Oxyometers and as soon as our blood O2 levels drop it’s time to get to hospital and don’t take no for an answer. Don’t bother phoning 111 like some poor souls have done and who needlessly needed up dying at home because they needed O2.

 

[lancer425]

19 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Stolen from elsewhere:

 

 

This graphic is not helpful because it appears to show some terrible situation, but actually 6.6 in a Million (read it properly) is not a problem.  I'd take those odds.

Countries fall into three groups - those who stamped Covid out early, those who ended up with internal transmission and are fighting it, and those who said "sod it".

The UK is in the middle group and can only usefully be compared with the others in that group.

Within that group, 70% (say) of population is going to get the virus, either in this wave or the next.  

Only three things matter:

1) Is the health service overwhelmed or going to be overwhelmed, which actually translates to "is the spread exponential?"

2) What proportion of people who get the disease are dying, which actually translates to "are we treating it properly?"

3) Are we going to kill a huge number of people afterwards which actually translates to "are we destroying the economy?"

The actual number of people dying at any given point is irrelevant, it's the total who have died at the end who matter.

Everyone is doing fine on point 1), because the disease turns out to be less lethal than though.

Pretty much all of Europe except Sweden is doing appallingly on point 3), I think it's madness.

Where the UK is abnormally failing is point 2).  If you get Covid in the UK you seem to be quite likely to snuff it, four times as likely as in Germany, and THAT is a massive problem, and means the UK will indeed have a HUGE death toll at the end and this is what everyone should be focusing on. 

Apparently we all need Oxyometers and as soon as our blood O2 levels drop it’s time to get to hospital and don’t take no for an answer. Don’t bother phoning 111 like some poor souls have done and who needlessly needed up dying at home because they needed O2.

 

1. Do you feel the statistics show the true impact this virus has in a country its people and its economy.

2. Or do you feel the statistics show the effects of the virus in a more favourable light. ?

[Mungler]

I think the stats that we are given at press conferences do not have sufficient depth for anyone to make a proper judgment and the expert ‘modelling’ is now in issue. The stats eg deaths by age range are there but you have to go digging for them. 

Re: question 1 - it is all about the effect of what we as a country have done in response to the virus threat. The stats do not and cannot show the full extent of anything because we are still in the midst of it all and we haven’t felt the economic impact. So that’s a broad no from me.

Re: question 2 - the stats show almost everything and anything and are open to inquiry, analysis and interpretation. They don’t show anything in a favourable light (there is no favourable light out of any of this) but (for example) stats from other countries trying different things should not be ignored or dismissed and need to by analysed. So that’s another broad no from me.
 

However, if you asked me if I would ruin an entire economy for 7 deaths in 1 million people (and on the basis that of those 7 deaths, 5 will be over 70 years of age) then no I wouldn’t - I would look to Sweden and improve on that model.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Mungler