Legality of random stops

[Lloyd90]

What is the legality of these so called random stops. With Police officers stopping whoever takes their fancy and asking them what they’re doing and where they’re going? 
 

I get we need to support the Government with Covid etc but to me that prospect stinks. Like living in a Police state. 
 

I also worry that these practices start now and the Police et al get used to it and it carries on when this is all over. 
 

Very dodgy ground imo. 

[Smokersmith]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350

[CharlieT]

This is the legislation http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/contents/enacted 

Yet again, it's the implementation and interpretation by individual CC's that comes into question. However, I suspect the policy of trying to discourage travel to certain areas for relaxation is driven by the PCC and local feeling.

[12gauge82]

41 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

What is the legality of these so called random stops. With Police officers stopping whoever takes their fancy and asking them what they’re doing and where they’re going? 
 

I get we need to support the Government with Covid etc but to me that prospect stinks. Like living in a Police state. 
 

I also worry that these practices start now and the Police et al get used to it and it carries on when this is all over. 
 

Very dodgy ground imo. 

Police can already pull anyone over in a vehicle and insist they provide them their driving docs, there'd be nothing stopping them from asking where you were going or why you were out while they did it.

[Lloyd90]

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Police can already pull anyone over in a vehicle and insist they provide them their driving docs, there'd be nothing stopping them from asking where you were going or why you were out while they did it.

And there’s nothing stopping you from refusing to answer their questions. 

You not answering their questions is also not grounds for arrest or search. 
 

Im pretty sure they need a reason to pull you over and ask to check your documents ... 

[butchdickason]

I don't see it as a problem, if you are doing nothing wrong why worry about it.  I see it the same as coloured folk being stopped and protesting it as racist, if you are doing nothing wrong it should not be a problem. Police have a difficult enough job in modern socity with it's problems and the Corona virus has made thier job more difficult. OMI.

[CharlieT]

2 minutes ago, butchdickason said:

I don't see it as a problem, if you are doing nothing wrong why worry about it.  I see it the same as coloured folk being stopped and protesting it as racist, if you are doing nothing wrong it should not be a problem. Police have a difficult enough job in modern socity with it's problems and the Corona virus has made thier job more difficult. OMI.

If you don't understand the ramifications of accepting, without concern, the erosion of civil liberties I feel sorry for you.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[Fuddster]

sec 163 Road Traffic Act-no reason needed to stop a vehicle.

don't confuse questioning regards movements, offences searches etc with the initial power to stop.

f.

 

[toontastic]

22 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

And there’s nothing stopping you from refusing to answer their questions. 

You not answering their questions is also not grounds for arrest or search. 
 

Im pretty sure they need a reason to pull you over and ask to check your documents ... 

Thank you, I know loads of travellers who find it quite annoying when they get stopped for just driving around the countryside. Your support of them being allowed to drive about unhindered at night without police questions and harassment is much appreciated.

Edited May 18, 2020 by toontastic

[Lloyd90]

9 minutes ago, butchdickason said:

I don't see it as a problem, if you are doing nothing wrong why worry about it.  I see it the same as coloured folk being stopped and protesting it as racist, if you are doing nothing wrong it should not be a problem. Police have a difficult enough job in modern socity with it's problems and the Corona virus has made thier job more difficult. OMI.

You won’t mind if they come round your house whenever they Fancy then and have a look through all your stuff? 
 

You won’t mind when they listen to your private phone calls, read your mail and Listen to your personal conversations? 
 

My god what a naive view point. The Police and Government are some magic people with special powers, they’re just ordinary folk like you and me ... would you be comfortable with your neighbour having those above powers? If not then why would you be comfortable to let the government have them? 
 

 

[Lloyd90]

6 minutes ago, toontastic said:

Thank you, I know loads of travellers who find it quite annoying when they get stopped for just driving around the countryside. Your support of them being allowed to drive about unhindered at night without police questions and harassment is much appreciated.

Another very naive comment. 
 

The right not to be stopped and harassed by the Police (mainly the Government) when they have no reason or cause to do so is a protection for EVERYONE. 
 

Just like the protection you have under the Human Rights act not to be tortured. 

I imagine some on here wouldn’t care about certain groups being harassed or even tortured in extreme cases. 
 

The whole point of those protections is that they apply to everyone. You can’t pick and choose.
 

 

If travellers are going around committing rural crime and are suspected of it then there is probable cause and they can be stopped. What should happen is that when crime happens the Police should attend and stop it in action ... you know how they’re supposed to work? Policing is a response service not a service that goes around arresting people who haven’t done anything just Incase they commit A crime in  the future. 

[toontastic]

4 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Another very naive comment. 
 

The right not to be stopped and harassed by the Police (mainly the Government) when they have no reason or cause to do so is a protection for EVERYONE. 
 

Just like the protection you have under the Human Rights act not to be tortured. 

I imagine some on here wouldn’t care about certain groups being harassed or even tortured in extreme cases. 
 

The whole point of those protections is that they apply to everyone. You can’t pick and choose.
 

 

If travellers are going around committing rural crime and are suspected of it then there is probable cause and they can be stopped. What should happen is that when crime happens the Police should attend and stop it in action ... you know how they’re supposed to work? Policing is a response service not a service that goes around arresting people who haven’t done anything just Incase they commit A crime in  the future. 

I have heard of police getting together with local land owners and game keepers and doing checks on unknown vehicles driving around rural areas at night. Do you object to this type of action.

[Lloyd90]

3 minutes ago, toontastic said:

I have heard of police getting together with local land owners and game keepers and doing checks on unknown vehicles driving around rural areas at night. Do you object to this type of action.

Do you not object to it? 

Since when did game keepers get the power to decide who gets stopped in rural areas? 

 

 

If there have been robberies in those areas, and they have descriptions of vehicles involved and they stop people in the area with those types of vehicles then that’s good cause. 
 

Can you not see that? It’s ok if they have proper cause to do so ... it’s not ok to just stop whenever you want for absolutely no reason. 
 

 

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Do you not object to it? 

Since when did game keepers get the power to decide who gets stopped in rural areas? 

 

 

If there have been robberies in those areas, and they have descriptions of vehicles involved and they stop people in the area with those types of vehicles then that’s good cause. 
 

Can you not see that? It’s ok if they have proper cause to do so ... it’s not ok to just stop whenever you want for absolutely no reason. 
 

 

you need to be rich and famous once seen a shoot owner fire a 12 bore in the road at a squirrel as police car came along leaping out they soon ran back to the car when they seen the identity of who fired the shot one of the guns said i don’t believe that the CLOWN who fired replied i know not one salute from either of them obviously the rules don’t apply to some 

[toontastic]

6 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Since when did game keepers get the power to decide who gets stopped in rural areas

They don't, they just notify the police of unfamiliar vehicles in the area.

[grrclark]

31 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Another very naive comment.

The right not to be stopped and harassed by the Police (mainly the Government) when they have no reason or cause to do so is a protection for EVERYONE.

Just like the protection you have under the Human Rights act not to be tortured. 

I imagine some on here wouldn’t care about certain groups being harassed or even tortured in extreme cases.

The whole point of those protections is that they apply to everyone. You can’t pick and choose.

If travellers are going around committing rural crime and are suspected of it then there is probable cause and they can be stopped. What should happen is that when crime happens the Police should attend and stop it in action ... you know how they’re supposed to work? Policing is a response service not a service that goes around arresting people who haven’t done anything just Incase they commit A crime in  the future. 

The bit in bold is hugely important and the law has to be as objective as possible, because when we allow subjectivity to take control then abuse of power becomes rife.

History is littered with abuse of power when authorities are allowed to use subjective decision making and there are plenty recent examples of our police forces abusing their position of authority.

[JohnfromUK]

There are loads of examples where the police stop people and question them - classic one being the various Drink Drive 'Campaigns' they hold.  I have been stopped (this was a few years ago on the way to work) and asked what I have had to drink, told them (honestly) and been released.  I have also been stopped and asked where I was coming from and going to - allegedly as part of a 'survey', but suspect there was more to it.  Never did find out what the truth was.  I have no problem with that as long as they behave sensibly (and not like arrogant dictators).

On another note, when I ran a shoot, we reported a vehicle behaving suspiciously.  The police did pick up the vehicle somewhere - and did report back and thank me; there was apparently no risk of poaching, but the vehicle (which was a hire car apparently) occupants were now 'helping them with another matter'.  I never did find out more.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

And there’s nothing stopping you from refusing to answer their questions. 

You not answering their questions is also not grounds for arrest or search. 
 

Im pretty sure they need a reason to pull you over and ask to check your documents ... 

They definitely don't and refusing to provide those documents could be a reason for arrest.

[Lloyd90]

10 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

They definitely don't and refusing to provide those documents could be a reason for arrest.

They can request to see your driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance certificate. 
 

You don’t have to produce them on the spot and can produce them within 7 days at any Police station. 
 

They don’t have the right to search you, your property or ask you any number of questions about what your doing or where your going. 
 

 

Using the law of being able to stop and check your driving legally, to question you without cause, just sounds like an abuse of power to me. If I have flagged up as not having insurance on the ANPR then fair enough 🤷‍♂️... 

[Mice!]

4 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

travellers are going around committing rural crime and are suspected of it then there is probable cause and they can be stopped. What should happen is that when crime happens the Police should attend and stop it in action ... you know how they’re supposed to work? Policing is a response service not a service that goes around arresting people who haven’t done anything just Incase they commit A crime in  the future. 

So if an area is being targeted by burglaries you don't think the police should be stopping cars at random? When people report their quad or dogs have gone during the night then the police in a rural area are highly unlikely to catch them in the act. Same with targeted poaching. 

I used to get stopped on a regular basis working shifts at a pub, or being in areas my old car didn't fit, never more than a quick chat or breathalyser test and away you go.

So what have you been stopped for is the question?,

 

[bwana]

Years ago many gamekeepers were enrolled as Special Constables,which gave them the same powers of stop,search,seize and detain as the regulars.

[toontastic]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

So if an area is being targeted by burglaries you don't think the police should be stopping cars at random? When people report their quad or dogs have gone during the night then the police in a rural area are highly unlikely to catch them in the act. Same with targeted poaching. 

I used to get stopped on a regular basis working shifts at a pub, or being in areas my old car didn't fit, never more than a quick chat or breathalyser test and away you go.

So what have you been stopped for is the question?,

 

As I mentioned earlier there have been a number of police/game keeper/farmer operations. The one in my area was after a spate of thefts of quads, dogs, farm equipment. The keepers/farmers would report unfamiliar vehicles in the area and the police would check them out. I really don't see the problem.

3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

They can request to see your driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance certificate. 
 

You don’t have to produce them on the spot and can produce them within 7 days at any Police station. 
 

They don’t have the right to search you, your property or ask you any number of questions about what your doing or where your going. 
 

 

Using the law of being able to stop and check your driving legally, to question you without cause, just sounds like an abuse of power to me. If I have flagged up as not having insurance on the ANPR then fair enough 🤷‍♂️... 

If your dog was stolen and the police found him while doing a random check on a car, would you be grateful or would you just bitch about them abusing their powers.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, toontastic said:

I really don't see the problem.

That's because for the vast majority of the law abiding population, there isn't a problem.

Those that have a problem need to open their eyes and see that not everyone in the community is honest and well intentioned - or they have something that they are worried about 'getting caught' doing.

[Vince Green]

The Coronavirus Bill 2/3/20 gives the police powers to stop any vehicle, detain any person and enter any premises. There doesn't appear to be the requirement of suspicion so the answer to the OP's question is broadly yes they can.

[REDINGTON]

If only they had been a little more conscientious regarding Rotherham.