Furloughed again

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 hours ago, Scully said:

A few pubs in my home town depend on Fair week for a large wedge of their yearly income, and not only losing their regular income as well, it will be interesting to see how things pan out.
I do feel sorry for the more obscure pubs really, but you have to move with the times, and I think this Covid business could be the end of any business which was struggling anyhow. 

All the local village pubs do food anyhow, they have to to survive, and just diversified into takeaway food and all seem to be doing ok. 
Ours owns a static and tourer site also, and they were telling me last night that they’re now receiving many calls asking if they can come over.
Once they get the go ahead we’re going to be swamped, so landlords are trying to create a method whereby they can cater to them with a closed pub whilst employing social distancing. 

Hello, sounds a good local pub, there's one in bladon Winston.churchill par taked a pint or two just been bought by the locals maybe we shall see more of this

[sam triple]

On 30/05/2020 at 17:10, stokie said:

We finished all the orders before we went off on furlough 

Were they able to furlough this other employee, I know people are still running machines at my works whilst the normal employee has been furloughed because they weren’t able to because they hadn’t been employed for a year or more 

[Mice!]

58 minutes ago, sam triple said:

Were they able to furlough this other employee, I know people are still running machines at my works whilst the normal employee has been furloughed because they weren’t able to because they hadn’t been employed for a year or more 

Pretty sure that's wrong unless they are a contractor,  perm employees who had been there more than a few months so on the system should have been eligible for the furlough scheme. 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Mice! said:

Pretty sure that's wrong unless they are a contractor,  perm employees who had been there more than a few months so on the system should have been eligible for the furlough scheme. 

Anybody who was on the payroll as at 29 February was eligible. 

[Mungler]

Alright, so I don’t want to be a doom-monger but here’s the heads up (from me speaking to lots of different clients in different walks of commercial life and looking over a lot of fences): 

1. If you’re not off furlough yet or are not on the skeleton staff list of people who are working then your job is probably at risk. Plan ahead and accordingly.

2. Lots of businesses are amazed at how they have functioned and performed with their skeleton staff and are actively looking to trim up as soon as furlough ends.

3. Last week, two of my longest standing and worst paying clients both paid large long outstanding bills and paid money on account. This in itself is an end of days dogs lying down with cats kind of moment. Turns out they all have multiple companies with multiple bank accounts and they’ve each taken a £50k loan and whatever grant was on offer for every business - it’s all legit. The view appears to be that ‘if the business comes back I’ll pay it off in a year’s time and if it doesn’t I’ll roll the company’. If the government is banking on gets these loans back in 1 year‘a time, I’ll be amazed if they get back 50%. That black hole will have to be met from taxation one way or another.

4. we are in an unreal honeymoon period where reality has been temporarily suspended. Stupid people are at home doing f-all, sitting in their gardens and blowing their cash on hot tubs and new garden furniture whilst waiting for the free and seemingly never ending furlough money to turn up. Those with sense and discipline will be setting up their plan Bs or getting some training in to make sure that when they go for their next job they will have something on their CV to make them stand out from the enormous crowd of other people that will be likewise chasing the same job.

5. the sun is shining everyone seemingly has their pockets full with a government grant or furlough money and people think it’s smashingly lovely. It is however a total and utter disaster and as a country we should have sent all kids back to school and everyone back to work today (1st June). We are so utterly screwed, we just don’t know it yet.

[Scully]

Talking to a near neighbour the other night ( while awaiting our fish and chip supper from the pub 😋) who is a partner in a large solicitors firm thirty miles away, who was telling me that he’s been working from home for weeks, with only the nominal office visit when unavoidable. He was saying they have had the facilities to talk with clients online for years, but have only started using them since the lockdown.
He said he hadn’t realised just how little time he actually needs to spend travelling, or indeed in the city, until this happened, and that as a result his company are seriously rethinking their office requirements. 
I also got my name on an as present non existent list for a lab’ pup, potentially, perhaps! He has some gorgeous labs. 🙂

[sam triple]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

Pretty sure that's wrong unless they are a contractor,  perm employees who had been there more than a few months so on the system should have been eligible for the furlough scheme. 

Yes these were contractors but were taken on the cards not sure as to what the date was though 

[gdadphil]

Hi Ratass and Stokie 

I 'm retired now but was in HR management. 

Very sorry to hear of your possible redundancy and wish you well for the future.

if you qualify for redundancy (ie 2 yrs + employment) be aware that there is a controversy about calculating redundancy pay that has yet to hit the headlines.

Redundancy pay is worked on what your weeks pay is (annual divide by 52) or similar methodology (average over last 12 weeks if weekly pay variable due to obligatory overtime/bonuses etc)

BUT>>>> if you have been furloughed the last 12 weeks you  will have been on 80% of pay and it is this reduced figure some employers are using. It seems in strict interpretation of the law they are right. 

there are a lot of lawyers looking at this and afaik the Govt has yet to rule on it.  

( I personally have a hope that 100% will be used as if you take leave in furlough this should be paid at 100%)

UPSHOT... if you are in a Union they should be all over it (( there may also be issues about proper redundancy consultation and the rate of pay in lieu of notice PILON)  

If you are not in a union talk to all your colleagues who are affected and see if you want to think about jointly engaging a solicitor if it all goes pear shaped.

Don't let your employer deal with you on different terms to other employees, their approach will be to "divide and conquer". what goes for one should go for all UNLESS there are written agreements to the contrary. 

make notes of statements and Q and A at every meeting you attend regarding redundancy. keep a copy of the typed up notes in a folder. if you don't own a pc/printer write them out long hand and get someone to type them up. your case will be much stronger if you need to take legal advice . beware of voice recording on yr phone. this is illegal unless all parties present have given permission and is very very unlikely to  be accepted at an employment tribunal.

Read this link.  ACAS are the independent interpreters of the law and   what they say should happen is used to manage good Employment Relations.

https://www.acas.org.uk/redundancy

 

Moving on

just 2c worth of thoughts re yr CV ...it's not just your tech skills prospective employers will be looking for, think about the added value you have given your old firm. EG able to work extra time at short notice ....recommending improvements to the work process... saving money though smart working... frankly anything that gives you an edge. 

Majority of Employers will want an interview so get a good (honest) mate to give you a mock interview and prepare for it as though it was the real thing.

atvb its not easy

cheers

gdadphil 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, gdadphil said:

Hi Ratass and Stokie 

I 'm retired now but was in HR management. 

Very sorry to hear of your possible redundancy and wish you well for the future.

if you qualify for redundancy (ie 2 yrs + employment) be aware that there is a controversy about calculating redundancy pay that has yet to hit the headlines.

Redundancy pay is worked on what your weeks pay is (annual divide by 52) or similar methodology (average over last 12 weeks if weekly pay variable due to obligatory overtime/bonuses etc)

BUT>>>> if you have been furloughed the last 12 weeks you  will have been on 80% of pay and it is this reduced figure some employers are using. It seems in strict interpretation of the law they are right. 

there are a lot of lawyers looking at this and afaik the Govt has yet to rule on it.  

( I personally have a hope that 100% will be used as if you take leave in furlough this should be paid at 100%)

UPSHOT... if you are in a Union they should be all over it (( there may also be issues about proper redundancy consultation and the rate of pay in lieu of notice PILON)  

If you are not in a union talk to all your colleagues who are affected and see if you want to think about jointly engaging a solicitor if it all goes pear shaped.

Don't let your employer deal with you on different terms to other employees, their approach will be to "divide and conquer". what goes for one should go for all UNLESS there are written agreements to the contrary. 

make notes of statements and Q and A at every meeting you attend regarding redundancy. keep a copy of the typed up notes in a folder. if you don't own a pc/printer write them out long hand and get someone to type them up. your case will be much stronger if you need to take legal advice . beware of voice recording on yr phone. this is illegal unless all parties present have given permission and is very very unlikely to  be accepted at an employment tribunal.

Read this link.  ACAS are the independent interpreters of the law and   what they say should happen is used to manage good Employment Relations.

https://www.acas.org.uk/redundancy

 

Moving on

just 2c worth of thoughts re yr CV ...it's not just your tech skills prospective employers will be looking for, think about the added value you have given your old firm. EG able to work extra time at short notice ....recommending improvements to the work process... saving money though smart working... frankly anything that gives you an edge. 

Majority of Employers will want an interview so get a good (honest) mate to give you a mock interview and prepare for it as though it was the real thing.

atvb its not easy

cheers

gdadphil 

All of that makes sense other than the point you make regarding being treated the same as to everybody else. You don’t want to be treated the same as everybody else, you want to be treated better. So if you know that your mate is getting 4 weeks for every year then you need to make the case as to why you should get more. Always worked for me. Also the ACAS page only refers to the strict definition of redundancy. Companies will often, especially in specific sectors, pay ex gratia sums in addition to redundancy. 

[gdadphil]

Hi I agree with AVB

you must ensure equality with colleagues this is why you must be open with colleagues as to any package of redundancy being offered. 

if you find you are being offered less favourable terms, there may be grounds for a discrimination claim, even if the discrimination case doesn't apply you should argue that they have set a precedent by offering more favourable terms to others; so their deal should apply to you too. 

Remember management will, often, prefer to keep costs as low as possible rather than being fair.

 

best 

gdadphil

 

 

[Mungler]

Most settlement agreements contain confidentiality clauses...

[AVB]

6 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Most settlement agreements contain confidentiality clauses...

The objective is to find out what others have got, negotiate a better deal and then keep quiet about it. 

[Raja Clavata]

On 01/06/2020 at 19:46, Scully said:

He said he hadn’t realised just how little time he actually needs to spend travelling, or indeed in the city, until this happened, and that as a result his company are seriously rethinking their office requirements. 

They will be converting several of the Canary Wharf blocks into residential apartments soon enough.

[Scully]

20 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

They will be converting several of the Canary Wharf blocks into residential apartments soon enough.

👍 Just think of the reduced overheads! 🙂

 

[Mungler]

12 hours ago, AVB said:

The objective is to find out what others have got, negotiate a better deal and then keep quiet about it. 

That will fall under the 11th commandment then.

[Raja Clavata]

What have the Republicans got to do with this? :😂

[ordnance]

Quote

He said he hadn’t realised just how little time he actually needs to spend travelling, or indeed in the city, until this happened, and that as a result his company are seriously rethinking their office requirements. 

I think a lot of employers will be thinking that. This will have shown that a lot of employees can work just as well from home why have the overheads of having them come to work , It could change the way things are done in the future. 

[Bumble]

6 hours ago, ordnance said:

I think a lot of employers will be thinking that. This will have shown that a lot of employees can work just as well from home why have the overheads of having them come to work , It could change the way things are done in the future. 

The vast majority of my friends are working from home, and from what I’ve heard, haven’t reduced in productivity but all seem happier than if they were in the office. If all each employee needs is a laptop, smartphone & WiFi, why bother with massive office spaces in future? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Bumble said:

The vast majority of my friends are working from home, and from what I’ve heard, haven’t reduced in productivity but all seem happier than if they were in the office. If all each employee needs is a laptop, smartphone & WiFi, why bother with massive office spaces in future? 

It certainly seems possible that this new "normal" may continue with lots of people working from home rather than offices.

[Bumble]

41 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It certainly seems possible that this new "normal" may continue with lots of people working from home rather than offices.

It makes sense for both employees & employers. 

[Scully]

7 hours ago, ordnance said:

I think a lot of employers will be thinking that. This will have shown that a lot of employees can work just as well from home why have the overheads of having them come to work , It could change the way things are done in the future. 

Agreed. As he runs an old 110 the benefits of working from home are many. 🙂

[Old farrier]

59 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

It certainly seems possible that this new "normal" may continue with lots of people working from home rather than offices.

And the new normal could be paying business rates on a proportional level on your residence 

 

[mr smith]

Working from home isn't for everyone, I have my wife and oldest daughter currently working from home.The missus is missing the human contact of her work colleagues and getting out of the house really,my daughter is quite happy working from her bedroom.

[JTaylor91]

Working from home would be a massive difference for me, my commute is an hour and 15 each way and fuel bill for the month is usually around £400. 

[Jaymo]

2 hours ago, JTaylor91 said:

Working from home would be a massive difference for me, my commute is an hour and 15 each way and fuel bill for the month is usually around £400. 

I’m still trying to work out the logistics of me working from home 🤔