Remember Them

[Longbower]

It seems to have been forgotten , that 80 years ago this week , until the 15th of September , RAF Fighter Command (Aircrew and Groundcrew) , were fighting at the height of the Battle of Britain.

The Spitfire was the 'iconic aircraft' of the RAF , but many more German aircraft were shot down by the' less glamourous' Hawker Hurricane than the Spitfire.  The Pilots average age was 23 . 

Brave men , they should be remembered, in our thoughts. 

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

ALWAYS!

[fern01]

When I was a child my heroes were Douglas Bader, Leonard Cheshire and Guy Gibson

Where are the people of that calibre now?

 

[saddler]

2 hours ago, Longbower said:

It seems to have been forgotten , that 80 years ago this week , until the 15th of September , RAF Fighter Command (Aircrew and Groundcrew) , were fighting at the height of the Battle of Britain.

The Spitfire was the 'iconic aircraft' of the RAF , but many more German aircraft were shot down by the' less glamourous' Hawker Hurricane than the Spitfire.  The Pilots average age was 23 . 

Brave men , they should be remembered, in our thoughts. 

....and MANY MANY more were shot down by Ack Ack than RAF fighters

The book by General Pile about his Anti Aircraft Command is a very good read.
Had a strange coincidence not long after I read it. Went to a workmates house & his parents were there.
Chatted to them & mentioned I'd just done my degree in War Studies - his dad mentions that during the war he was based in the UK on Anti Aircraft batteries.
His jaw dropped when I started talking about General Pile, radar controlled aiming systems and the like...he was shocked any of it was remembered as other services got all the glamour/publicity. Nice bloke, chatted for ages with him. His Mrs couldn't believe it as he never really said much...

Another good book on a related topic was about Camouflage - a huge percentage of the damage to UK airfields & towns during the height of the Luftwaffe campaign was done to empty  fields and dummy bases. Set up on a parallel location to the real ones, with fake runways, fake planes, etc. 
One good story was a senior NCO running one such phoney base calling his area command during an air raid almost in tears as his dummy site was being bombed and all his fake aircraft destroyed....he'd sort of forgotten that that was the point of them/him being there - to save the real bases and aircraft.

Like Hurricanes. I always thought they missed a trick with them though - having a couple of Bolton Paul Defiants in each Hurricane Squadron as occasional "tail end Charlies..." could have made for some interesting learning experiences for rookie Luftwaffe fighter pilots
 

[Scully]

7 hours ago, fern01 said:

When I was a child my heroes were Douglas Bader, Leonard Cheshire and Guy Gibson

Where are the people of that calibre now?

 

I’m pretty sure the ‘ people of that calibre’ would appear if the need arose. 

[Centrepin]

Whilst not wishing to detract from the heroes of yesteryear, many men and women of that calibre are now serving members of HM Forces. The political voice of today chooses to ignore the wonderful job these people are doing today. If you look in the honours and awards lists you will still see this to be true.

How many people for instance know that are currently still serving at least two recipients of the VC at NCO level or below?

Even in time of "peace" our country still has it's armed forces heroes. 

Incidentally, I know very little about the anti aircraft systems we employed but am quite aware of the decoy systems to fool the enemy which wrongly I thought was still classified.

I live within walking distance(or did when I could walk more than a few yards) of the Derwent Dams and the history with the Dam Busters squadron. A fly over is held every so often and although it's too busy for me to attend now, I'm aware of the practice runs they make and attend those in quiet rememberance with a few others. Also for those interested on the moors above the Dams are wrecks of Allied and German aircraft still to be seen to this day.

[bruno22rf]

With respect Saddler, the Defiant was a pile of junk that should never have seen service. 

[Scully]

6 hours ago, saddler said:

....and MANY MANY more were shot down by Ack Ack than RAF fighters

The book by General Pile about his Anti Aircraft Command is a very good read.
Had a strange coincidence not long after I read it. Went to a workmates house & his parents were there.
Chatted to them & mentioned I'd just done my degree in War Studies - his dad mentions that during the war he was based in the UK on Anti Aircraft batteries.
His jaw dropped when I started talking about General Pile, radar controlled aiming systems and the like...he was shocked any of it was remembered as other services got all the glamour/publicity. Nice bloke, chatted for ages with him. His Mrs couldn't believe it as he never really said much...

Another good book on a related topic was about Camouflage - a huge percentage of the damage to UK airfields & towns during the height of the Luftwaffe campaign was done to empty  fields and dummy bases. Set up on a parallel location to the real ones, with fake runways, fake planes, etc. 
One good story was a senior NCO running one such phoney base calling his area command during an air raid almost in tears as his dummy site was being bombed and all his fake aircraft destroyed....he'd sort of forgotten that that was the point of them/him being there - to save the real bases and aircraft.

Like Hurricanes. I always thought they missed a trick with them though - having a couple of Bolton Paul Defiants in each Hurricane Squadron as occasional "tail end Charlies..." could have made for some interesting learning experiences for rookie Luftwaffe fighter pilots
 

There weren’t a lot of rookie Luftwaffe pilots around at the time of the Battle of Britain; most were seasoned veterans whom had gained their experience in the Spanish Civil War, and attacked formation flying British aircraft from below and behind, hence many tail-end Charlie’s disappearing without any knowledge of the rest of the formation. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Scully

[Centrepin]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

There weren’t a lot of rookie Luftwaffe pilots around at the time of the Battle of Britain; most were seasoned veterans whom had gained their experience in the Spanish Civil War, and attacked formation flying British aircraft from below and behind, hence many tail-end Charlie’s disappearing without any knowledge of the rest of the formation. 

I may of course be wrong, but wasn't the life expectancy of a tail end charlie or rear gunner 48 hours, exactly the same as a Parachute Regiment and Airborne Forces soldier? Yet there where no shortages of these brave men knowing the facts.

[hodge911]

My dad was ground crew during WW2  he spent time in coastal defence at Stranraer and somewhere down south working on hurricanes and spitfires and halifax bombers.

I started looking into getting his raf service records this week ... I've paid the subscription to a site who said they held the info I needed only to find out they don't have what I'm after and have told me to go direct to the MOD ....

As per the O.P  I agree they should never be forgotten.

Yes the pilots are the poor brave guys putting their lives on the line every time they climbed into the planes.

But without ground crew the planes wouldn't have been able to get into the air .... 

[CharlieT]

 I feel that everyone should be remembered not just those fighting in the front line. Everyone from the GPO telephonists and factory workers to the back room boffins. Without everyone pulling together we would not have come through. Whilst it is only human nature to single out those whose actions history has somewhat glamorized, everyone who did their bit should be remembered.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Centrepin said:

I may of course be wrong, but wasn't the life expectancy of a tail end charlie or rear gunner 48 hours, exactly the same as a Parachute Regiment and Airborne Forces soldier? Yet there where no shortages of these brave men knowing the facts.

I don’t really know to be honest. There was a claim that the life expectancy once in actual combat, of a nose gunner was 15 seconds, mid upper 10 and tail 5, but I have no idea if it was based in fact. 
 

[Blackpowder]

On 28/08/2020 at 00:20, fern01 said:

When I was a child my heroes were Douglas Bader, Leonard Cheshire and Guy Gibson

Where are the people of that calibre now?

 

Fern I think they are still there in our Armed forces, but I dont expect you will encounter any of them tearing down statues and defacing war memorials.

 

Blackpowder

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I received this from Airfix earlier, it is worth a read about Flt Lt Nicholson the Victoria Cross winner in the Battle of Britain.

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/news/aerodrome/battle-of-britain-80-a-nation-remembers?utm_campaign=2758367_Airfix - Aerodrome - Week 22 2020%2F2021&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hornby PLC&_%24ja=tsid%3A71284&dm_i=2DJZ,1N4DB,22VWG2,5KH78,1

[vmaxphil]

Good article thanks for that 

[VicW]

5 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

With respect Saddler, the Defiant was a pile of junk that should never have seen service. 

Interesting then that a Defiant squadron was responsible for accounting for more enemy aircraft in a day than either the Spitfire, and the largely ignored, Hurricane squadrons.

Are you perhaps thinking of the Fairey Battle?

Vic.

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, VicW said:

Interesting then that a Defiant squadron was responsible for accounting for more enemy aircraft in a day than either the Spitfire, and the largely ignored, Hurricane squadrons.

Are you perhaps thinking of the Fairey Battle?

Vic.

I was thinking similar; the FB was an awful aircraft by any accounts I’ve read. 

[bruno22rf]

3 hours ago, VicW said:

Interesting then that a Defiant squadron was responsible for accounting for more enemy aircraft in a day than either the Spitfire, and the largely ignored, Hurricane squadrons.

Are you perhaps thinking of the Fairey Battle?

Vic.

A record belonging surely to 303 SQ (Polish) with 14 confirmed kills in one day?

[saddler]

6 hours ago, Scully said:

I was thinking similar; the FB was an awful aircraft by any accounts I’ve read. 

The only worse thing with wings than the Fairey Battle was Linda McCartney

[saddler]

11 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Whilst not wishing to detract from the heroes of yesteryear, many men and women of that calibre are now serving members of HM Forces. The political voice of today chooses to ignore the wonderful job these people are doing today. If you look in the honours and awards lists you will still see this to be true.

How many people for instance know that are currently still serving at least two recipients of the VC at NCO level or below?

Even in time of "peace" our country still has it's armed forces heroes. 

Incidentally, I know very little about the anti aircraft systems we employed but am quite aware of the decoy systems to fool the enemy which wrongly I thought was still classified.

I live within walking distance(or did when I could walk more than a few yards) of the Derwent Dams and the history with the Dam Busters squadron. A fly over is held every so often and although it's too busy for me to attend now, I'm aware of the practice runs they make and attend those in quiet rememberance with a few others. Also for those interested on the moors above the Dams are wrecks of Allied and German aircraft still to be seen to this day.

Pass these every Friday on the way up/down the A68
Did a few moors trips with the ATC squadron I was in a few years ago

[The Heron]

Absolutely. 

[armsid]

My fathers brother was doing his national service as ww2 broke out He was on ground crew and was proud of thisbut never said much to me about his time in the RAFJust 5 years before retirement from his post war toolmaking job he took over running the RAFA club Douglas Bader House in Coventry THEY SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN 

[Walker570]

I have to admit I cannot remember much about it as that week I was wriggling around trying to get out into the world, eventually making it out on the 2nd September.

My dad was also RAF ground crew maintaining Merlins mainly as he was a gas fitter by trade.  Heaven knows what would happen today in such an emergency with all the whimp sheeple running around in their face nappies.  

[Captain Caveman]

22 hours ago, fern01 said:

When I was a child my heroes were Douglas Bader, Leonard Cheshire and Guy Gibson

Where are the people of that calibre now?

 

My favourite Bader quote-

“Rules are for the guidance of wise men and for the blind obedience of fools.”

 

[Centrepin]

14 hours ago, saddler said:

Pass these every Friday on the way up/down the A68
Did a few moors trips with the ATC squadron I was in a few years ago

Ah sorry you mistake them, the Derwent reservoir is where they practised and the wrecks are on the Howden moors above. I should have been more specific.