Cyclist

[Yellow Bear]

13 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

And that's fair enough, my criticism is only of the few on here who are advocating breaking the law as if two wrongs make a right, or are so intolerant as to brand all cyclists as bad. 

I take it from some of your response that you are a keen cyclist but I will relate this "anecdote" (for want of a better description) as to why cyclists are branded as bad.

On Sunday I met up with a fellow dog walker I had not seen for about 6 weeks, he was walking with a crutch.  He had been walking on a bridle path (council designated as a safe walking route to school ) which dips fairly steeply to a brook and then rises. It is about 2m wide but has a channel down the middle for run off.  3, for want of a polite word, cyclists came down at speed heading straight for him (one on one side the other on the other) with no attempt or intention of stopping and he was force to jump clear and fell over a shallow dry stone wall breaking his ankle.  None of the riders even looked back, let alone stopped.  This sort of thing is a fairly common happening although not a serious so you can see why many of us have a very jaundiced view of the "breed" 

[clangerman]

38 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

All my actions have always been lawful. Two years ago I prevented a gentleman from being assaulted in a road rage incident on the m5, the police who attended thanked me, as did several other shocked motorists who were held up in the fast lane. I'm happy to stick my neck out as long as my actions are lawful, necessary, and reasonable in the circumstances, which is very different to openly admitting to criminal acts. 

stepping in to prevent a assault is one thing trying to arrest someone for stepping on a bike is another just lucky a pensioner didn’t trip over them and sustain a broken hip 

[WalkedUp]

Struggling to embed a video... https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/65c16ed5-7dd2-40b4-947f-11d010fe88a7#9TmSQYju43N.copy

Everyone has broken a law at some point, inadvertently often. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by WalkedUp

[Raja Clavata]

My son is doing Cycle4Sepsis 2020 in memory of his Great Grandmother and has raised over £1000 so far. I have ridden some of the miles with him and on our last ride together I had a "lady" nearly take me out as she flew out of a pub car park and then nearly side swiped me again as she immediately turned into the next road - this is the kind of thing that happens on a very regular basis and as a vulnerable road user you just have to take care when on a bike as accidents happen and you're nearly always going to be the one who comes off worst.

Last week my son was riding alone and had a car speed past him then lock their brakes and then start zig zagging down the road with the lads in the car gesturing at him, he just dropped back and didn't engage them - again not a rare occurrence and totally unnecessary.

I have a long held belief that certain other road users would rather you die than delay their journey by 30 seconds - here is an interesting article with some insight for those that don't have first hand experience of both sides of all this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/apr/02/should-we-stop-using-the-word-cyclist

Personally I do distinguish between people who ride bikes and people who are cyclists, again there are good and bad in both camps...

[12gauge82]

10 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

I take it from some of your response that you are a keen cyclist but I will relate this "anecdote" (for want of a better description) as to why cyclists are branded as bad.

On Sunday I met up with a fellow dog walker I had not seen for about 6 weeks, he was walking with a crutch.  He had been walking on a bridle path (council designated as a safe walking route to school ) which dips fairly steeply to a brook and then rises. It is about 2m wide but has a channel down the middle for run off.  3, for want of a polite word, cyclists came down at speed heading straight for him (one on one side the other on the other) with no attempt or intention of stopping and he was force to jump clear and fell over a shallow dry stone wall breaking his ankle.  None of the riders even looked back, let alone stopped.  This sort of thing is a fairly common happening although not a serious so you can see why many of us have a very jaundiced view of the "breed" 

Your very wrong, I'm no keen cyclist, I was a keen boxer and competed until I was 28. Other than riding a mountain bike as a kid I haven't really bothered since. 

As to your other points manners are manners whether driving a car or a bike, you'll get idiots in all walks of life, stamping on someone else's property isn't excusable, especially for a kid blocking a shop doorway with a bike. 

 

10 hours ago, clangerman said:

stepping in to prevent a assault is one thing trying to arrest someone for stepping on a bike is another just lucky a pensioner didn’t trip over them and sustain a broken hip 

Purposely breaking someone's bike is a clear breach of the law and would be covered by a citizens arrest if necessary. I would ask the offending person to remain there until the police arrived and if refusing would detain them using reasonable force if necessary. All perfectly legal, unlike stamping on a kids bike. 

10 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

Struggling to embed a video... https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/65c16ed5-7dd2-40b4-947f-11d010fe88a7#9TmSQYju43N.copy

Everyone has broken a law at some point, inadvertently often. 

Agreed, I'm sure they have, but I doubt many decent people have purposely causes criminal damage as aan adult and would expect and hope it'd be very rare among shooters, or what message does that give to the wider public about those trusted to own firearms? 

[12gauge82]

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

My son is doing Cycle4Sepsis 2020 in memory of his Great Grandmother and has raised over £1000 so far. I have ridden some of the miles with him and on our last ride together I had a "lady" nearly take me out as she flew out of a pub car park and then nearly side swiped me again as she immediately turned into the next road - this is the kind of thing that happens on a very regular basis and as a vulnerable road user you just have to take care when on a bike as accidents happen and you're nearly always going to be the one who comes off worst.

Last week my son was riding alone and had a car speed past him then lock their brakes and then start zig zagging down the road with the lads in the car gesturing at him, he just dropped back and didn't engage them - again not a rare occurrence and totally unnecessary.

I have a long held belief that certain other road users would rather you die than delay their journey by 30 seconds - here is an interesting article with some insight for those that don't have first hand experience of both sides of all this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/apr/02/should-we-stop-using-the-word-cyclist

Personally I do distinguish between people who ride bikes and people who are cyclists, again there are good and bad in both camps...

Good Post, I don't understand why people can't be more tolerant of each other, particularly when we all partake in a minority sport ourselves which could very easily be taken away. 

[WalkedUp]

26 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

My son is doing Cycle4Sepsis 2020 in memory of his Great Grandmother and has raised over £1000 so far. I have ridden some of the miles with him and on our last ride together I had a "lady" nearly take me out as she flew out of a pub car park and then nearly side swiped me again as she immediately turned into the next road - this is the kind of thing that happens on a very regular basis and as a vulnerable road user you just have to take care when on a bike as accidents happen and you're nearly always going to be the one who comes off worst.

Last week my son was riding alone and had a car speed past him then lock their brakes and then start zig zagging down the road with the lads in the car gesturing at him, he just dropped back and didn't engage them - again not a rare occurrence and totally unnecessary.

I have a long held belief that certain other road users would rather you die than delay their journey by 30 seconds - here is an interesting article with some insight for those that don't have first hand experience of both sides of all this:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/apr/02/should-we-stop-using-the-word-cyclist

Personally I do distinguish between people who ride bikes and people who are cyclists, again there are good and bad in both camps...

Very true. See it all the time. We were in the car yesterday and a local building contractor with their company logo on the side performed a very dangerous overtake of a cyclist rather than wait 10/15 seconds - it was as if the cyclist didn’t exist. Worsening factors are that it was near to a playground and school.

[Stonepark]

14 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

There are sensible and considerate drivers but their numbers seem to be outweighed by those that are not.

Sorted it.

 

Interestingly since lockdown and the proliferation of urban 'temporary' 20mph zones, it is now cars holding cyclists up in some instances.

[Scully]

Of course there are good and bad on the roads, I said as much in my intitial post, I just can’t understand the mentality of some when they are the ones who will come off worst.

A few weeks ago on the A686 ( a road which is very popular with motorcyclists ) I was followed by three who chose to pass me after I’d already indicated to turn right!
I flashed my lights and was given the finger; no doubt I’d have been to blame if one of them had come to grief, which isn’t rare on that road; the car park on Hartside summit is a monument to those who ran out of skill or luck. 

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

Interestingly since lockdown and the proliferation of urban 'temporary' 20mph zones, it is now cars holding cyclists up in some instances.

And herein lies the rub - if the car doing 20 in a 20 limit is holding up the cyclist, the cyclist is breaking the law.  However many of them think that traffic regulations do not apply to them.  If a motorist breaks the law and is caught it's 3 points. If a cyclist does they seldom get prosecuted even if caught, and even then the worst is a slapped wrist.

[arjimlad]

Full house on the cycling hating bingo methinks..

Although thankfully no-one seems to have mentioned "road tax" yet ?

I cycle 3,000 + miles p/a, mainly commuting on country lanes.

Since Nov 2018 I have managed to film and report 145 drivers to the rozzers who have agreed that their driving fell below the required standard, made contact with them and warned or prosecuted them.

About 50 of those were on their handheld mobile phones, the rest were close passes or dangerous overtakers pulling out into oncoming traffic. 

I ride carefully & considerately & obey traffic signals, make sure I am very visible, pull over to let drivers pass if there's a queue and STILL get this level of almost daily feckwittery on the roads. Dangerous drivers put us ALL other road users at risk. 

I find that nearly all HGV drivers are fantastic - really considerate, wide passing, attentive - the best on the roads. There's always an exception though.

This HGV driver got 5 points & fined for nearly taking me out with the back of his trailer last year.  He should not have chosen to try overtaking on a "pinch point". A good reason to wear comfy, fast-drying lycra is it is less likely to get caught on close-passing vehicles like this behemoth.

 

 

I think we all need to be a bit more patient when driving nowadays, and also look to have local authorities make better segregated provision for cycling. The amount of traffic on our roads has risen to an unsustainable level and we cannot afford the environmental harm this does to our health.  If you really need to use a car/truck, then every person who gets out of theirs and uses a bike or walks is one less piece of traffic clogging up the roads. 

 

Tin hat on ! 

 

[Stonepark]

13 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

And herein lies the rub - if the car doing 20 in a 20 limit is holding up the cyclist, the cyclist is breaking the law.  However many of them think that traffic regulations do not apply to them.  If a motorist breaks the law and is caught it's 3 points. If a cyclist does they seldom get prosecuted even if caught, and even then the worst is a slapped wrist.

I didn't say they were breaking the law but 20mph on a road bike on the flat is doable for commuting and motorised traffic often ends up doing 16 to 18mph between Speedo being 6% over showing speed and traffic having to react to one another's differences in driving style in 20mph zones.

 I quite agree that as cyclists do not have a calibrated speedometer they cannot be prosecuted for speeding as such, however other than gravity assist (going down hill) there is a definitive input limit (1 manpower as opposed to horse power) to achieving speed which is never going to be able to be increased, sans mechanisation and other than professional athletes tops out at 20mph on the flat with a decent road bike.

The reason motorists fines and law is much stricter is the consequences of not following the law, i.e. on a road if a cyclist has an accident, the person most at risk is them as they will lose out and are unprotected and therefore in their interests to avoid an accident, a motor vehicle will always have much greater impact forces and no matter the contact will always leave a cyclist worse off, whilst the occupants of the vehicle will suffer nothing due to the structural build and protections built into the motor vehicle.

[Newbie to this]

47 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

on a road if a cyclist has an accident, the person most at risk is them as they will lose out

Tell that to the woman (I'm sure she is not the only person) killed by a cyclist.

It's not only vehicles and cyclist that use the roads, pedestrians also use them!

Just have a google there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclist.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Newbie to this

[arjimlad]

10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Tell that to the woman (I'm sure she is not the only person) killed by a cyclist.

It's not only vehicles and cyclist that use the roads, pedestrians also use them!

Just have a google there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclist.

About 2 per annum, compared to five per day.

[Newbie to this]

2 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

About 2 per annum, compared to five per day.

What does that work out percentage wise proportionately, just out of curiosity.

And has little to do with the point of my comment, it was to point out that the cyclist doesn't always come off worse in every accident scenario, like was being suggested.

[arjimlad]

56 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

What does that work out percentage wise proportionately, just out of curiosity.

And has little to do with the point of my comment, it was to point out that the cyclist doesn't always come off worse in every accident scenario, like was being suggested.

Your comment was that there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclists. This just isn't correct.  I don't have the data on proportions but West Midlands Police have explained their views about that.

 

We're so used to road casualties now that we seem to accept 5 killed and 60 seriously injured per day in 2019, that these just about make the regional news whereas the nationals run it when it is the other way round. It's that unusual. 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by arjimlad
insert image

[Smokersmith]

Some remarkable view on this thread.

I just consider myself lucky that I'm in the fens.

When I'm in my car, I've hardly ever had any issues with cyclists.

When I'm on my bike I hardly see another car.

 

[Yellow Bear]

31 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Some remarkable view on this thread.

I just consider myself lucky that I'm in the fens.

When I'm in my car, I've hardly ever had any issues with cyclists.

When I'm on my bike I hardly see another car.

 

You are very lucky, we live in a rural area within fairly easy reach of Sheffield, Derby, Nottingham, and Manchester, so after 3 "tours" and several Eroica Britannias in the last few years as well as off road events, every off roader and would be Bradley Wiggins floods the place.   On a weekly shopping trips we will often encounter as many, if not more, cycles than cars.

 

[Newbie to this]

47 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

Your comment was that there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclists. This just isn't correct.  I don't have the data on proportions but we're so used to road casualties now that we seem to accept 5 killed and 60 seriously injured per day in 2019, that these just about make the regional news whereas the nationals run it when it is the other way round. It's that unusual. 

 

You must have read a different comment to the one I wrote.

It was in response to a comment that said "if a cyclist has an accident, the person most at risk is the cyclist". I was pointing out that, that simply isn't true. Loads of pedestrians have been killed by cyclists, where the pedestrian was by far the person most at risk.

You then started quoting useless statistics, which had zero bearing on my comment.

I wasn't trying to say cyclists cause more pedestrian deaths than cars, vans etc.

[arjimlad]

@Newbie to this

Your comment is that there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclists. That's just not true. 2 per annum is not statistically significant (although clearly very significant to the families affected).  It pales into insignificance when compared with the numbers killed or seriously injured by motor traffic. 

 

[Farmboy91]

1 hour ago, arjimlad said:

Your comment was that there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclists. This just isn't correct.  I don't have the data on proportions but West Midlands Police have explained their views about that.

 

We're so used to road casualties now that we seem to accept 5 killed and 60 seriously injured per day in 2019, that these just about make the regional news whereas the nationals run it when it is the other way round. It's that unusual. 

 

When you compare that to how many vans/cars/trucks/motorcycles are on the roads every day in this country and the miles covered that's a tiny amount really. 

[Newbie to this]

53 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

@Newbie to this

Your comment is that there are loads of pedestrians killed by cyclists. That's just not true. 2 per annum is not statistically significant (although clearly very significant to the families affected).  It pales into insignificance when compared with the numbers killed or seriously injured by motor traffic. 

 

You took my comment completely out of context!!! 

There have been loads of pedestrians killed cyclists.

It wouldn't matter if only 1 person was ever killed by a cyclist, my point is valid, sometimes in an accident the cyclist is NOT the most at risk, as was suggested.

This is what my comment was aimed at, not that cyclists kill more people than any other road users. It was you who started mentioning how many people cyclist kill, compared to other road users.

And again proportionately, does it pale into insignificance!!!

Edited September 29, 2020 by Newbie to this

[The Heron]

4 hours ago, arjimlad said:

Full house on the cycling hating bingo methinks..

Although thankfully no-one seems to have mentioned "road tax" yet ?

I cycle 3,000 + miles p/a, mainly commuting on country lanes.

Since Nov 2018 I have managed to film and report 145 drivers to the rozzers who have agreed that their driving fell below the required standard, made contact with them and warned or prosecuted them.

About 50 of those were on their handheld mobile phones, the rest were close passes or dangerous overtakers pulling out into oncoming traffic. 

I ride carefully & considerately & obey traffic signals, make sure I am very visible, pull over to let drivers pass if there's a queue and STILL get this level of almost daily feckwittery on the roads. Dangerous drivers put us ALL other road users at risk. 

I find that nearly all HGV drivers are fantastic - really considerate, wide passing, attentive - the best on the roads. There's always an exception though.

This HGV driver got 5 points & fined for nearly taking me out with the back of his trailer last year.  He should not have chosen to try overtaking on a "pinch point". A good reason to wear comfy, fast-drying lycra is it is less likely to get caught on close-passing vehicles like this behemoth.

 

 

I think we all need to be a bit more patient when driving nowadays, and also look to have local authorities make better segregated provision for cycling. The amount of traffic on our roads has risen to an unsustainable level and we cannot afford the environmental harm this does to our health.  If you really need to use a car/truck, then every person who gets out of theirs and uses a bike or walks is one less piece of traffic clogging up the roads. 

 

Tin hat on ! 

 

What a good boy 

[WalkedUp]

7 hours ago, Scully said:

Of course there are good and bad on the roads, I said as much in my intitial post, I just can’t understand the mentality of some when they are the ones who will come off worst.

A few weeks ago on the A686 ( a road which is very popular with motorcyclists ) I was followed by three who chose to pass me after I’d already indicated to turn right!
I flashed my lights and was given the finger; no doubt I’d have been to blame if one of them had come to grief, which isn’t rare on that road; the car park on Hartside summit is a monument to those who ran out of skill or luck. 

My old boss (who I dislike) killed a motorcyclist when turning right. In a 40mph, he had indicated and started his manoeuvre (according to witnesses) when the motorcyclist hit him at approx 60mph. Other independent witnesses reported that the motorcyclist had been riding dangerously. He took 3 years to die. After the death his wife brought a civil prosecution but that was thrown out. My wife’s university friend Tsk Fok was killed during 3rd year by a left turning lorry in Oxford, the wheel went over his head. They are dangerous roads. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by WalkedUp

[fern01]

6 hours ago, The Heron said:

What a good boy 

With friends like that you wouldn't need any enemies.