Duckandswing Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Just now, AVB said: It’s the reality and there are many examples where young people take priority. Doctors will fight tooth and nail to save the life of a youngster but DNR notices are common amongst the elderly. I understand what you are saying and I don’t disagree with people looking after themselves no matter what age especially if elderly and if more at risk. That’s common sense I suppose. I found saying that someone of a certain age has had there life a little cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Duckandswing said: I understand what you are saying and I don’t disagree with people looking after themselves no matter what age especially if elderly and if more at risk. That’s common sense I suppose. I found saying that someone of a certain age has had there life a little cruel. Tough but dooable. Older people have mostly already accustomed themselves to staying home anyway, and many have children that are simply busy getting on wi their own lives and a bit too busy to visit frequently anyway. Isolation is easier for the elderly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 those who fought for this country must be sickened by claims they no longer count or matter the same as anyone else what happened to morals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckandswing Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Tough but dooable. Older people have mostly already accustomed themselves to staying home anyway, and many have children that are simply busy getting on wi their own lives and a bit too busy to visit frequently anyway. Isolation is easier for the elderly. I don’t think isolation is easy for anybody. Loneliness can be unbearable whatever age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, clangerman said: those who fought for this country must be sickened by claims they no longer count or matter the same as anyone else what happened to morals? Do you want to see students coming out of university’s with massive loans into the workplace with no hope of a career as the country is on it knees because that’s what it’s heading for fast we can’t go on lock down after lock down this virus was started by ONE person the fight to contain it is lost. Edited October 10, 2020 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, clangerman said: those who fought for this country must be sickened by claims they no longer count or matter the same as anyone else what happened to morals? Absurd. The only man I know of who is still alive and fought in WW2 (a relative) is in his mid 90s and has been in full isolation the whole time anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, blackbird said: Do you want to see students coming out of university’s with massive loans into the workplace with no hope of a career as the country is on it knees because that’s what it’s heading for fast we can’t go on lock down after lock down this virus was started by ONE person the fight to contain it is lost. who are you to say the fight is lost had we put lives before a few quid we would not be in this mess bristol uni infection rate doubled in 24hrs all about the money how cheap we are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, WalkedUp said: Absurd. The only man I know of who is still alive and fought in WW2 (a relative) is in his mid 90s and has been in full isolation the whole time anyway. who mentioned ww2? how absurd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 I was in total agreement until it was pointed out this week that the survival of the fittest was a strategy that smacked of eugenics. Interesting points made by the head of the BMA today around conflicts in the rules, the stupidity of the rule of six and the complete shambles in communication. We are all in this together but we must understand the rules and own them as a population. It's currently a case of every one for themselves and do what they think suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, oowee said: We are all in this together but we must understand the rules and own them as a population. It's currently a case of every one for themselves and do what they think suits. I believe that the majority of the population understand the rules but they don’t agree with them and hence a tendency to ignore them. Claiming they don’t understand them is just a lazy defence. during the early days of the lockdown compliance was high because people, in the majority, supported it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, AVB said: I believe that the majority of the population understand the rules but they don’t agree with them and hence a tendency to ignore them. Claiming they don’t understand them is just a lazy defence. during the early days of the lockdown compliance was high because people, in the majority, supported it. During the early days of lockdown compliance was high because it was a novelty and people were being paid and in many cases afraid of the consequences. As it's dragged on and ridiculous rules imposed more and more people are seeing how stupid it is. I'm currently not allowed to leave My county. But I can if I need to. Or if it's for work. Or to deliver food to my grand mother. But I can't go in her house. But I can meet her in the pub as long as there's no more than 6 of us and we don't drink standing up. And I wear a mask while I go to the toilet. As said above and in other threads- protect those that need it and let the other 99% get on with life before it's too late (if it isn't already). The whole thing has absolutely changed the world but has never been the massive death toll that people were duped into expecting. More suicides than corona deaths should mean something. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, clangerman said: who mentioned ww2? how absurd Apologies, I realise I misread and misunderstood your message. 46 minutes ago, AVB said: I believe that the majority of the population understand the rules but they don’t agree with them and hence a tendency to ignore them. Claiming they don’t understand them is just a lazy defence. during the early days of the lockdown compliance was high because people, in the majority, supported it. You can understand the rules and want to obey them but now they have been changed so frequently the message is diluted and confusing. I am affected by different rules in different local lock downs in different countries. My 15 minute drive to my shoot sees me pass through 3 sets of criteria. There was a stage when in Wales you didn’t wear masks in shops etc. I have tended to side with caution but will admit I have become lazy and just make a stab at what I remember the rules to be be rather than checking them frequently. The rules in lock down areas seems to change weekly. For the majority of England it has been pretty straightforward. The mistake was to not get the Welsh and Scottish onboard to agree a system from day one. They are now deliberately going down different routes purely to score political points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: The rules in lock down areas seems to change weekly. For the majority of England it has been pretty straightforward. The mistake was to not get the Welsh and Scottish onboard to agree a system from day one. They are now deliberately going down different routes purely to score political points. You have hit the nail on the head, however because of politics there is no way the Welsh and Scot would have agreed. They cannot even agree with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Apologies, I realise I misread and misunderstood your message. no need i’m not always the clearest living around the selfish don’t help no respect for their elders or their self have to haunt them if i snuff it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 On 09/10/2020 at 19:48, AVB said: Also of last weeks deaths (59 iirc) the age range was 62-92 all with underlying medical conditions. There are millions of people in the UK with underlying medical conditions, so that will be not much consolation to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ordnance said: There are millions of people in the UK with underlying medical conditions, so that will be not much consolation to them. Correct. But there are many millions more that don’t. The point being that for the vast majority of the population this is not generally a fatal illness. some other stats that support this 90% of those that die are over 65 25% have dementia 95% have underlying health conditions. Edited October 10, 2020 by AVB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 In an ideal world we could afford limitless money and resources to save each life. Unfortunately we are not there yet. Society has to make hard choices, politicians have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of their value judgement- the same as a general sending troops into battle. Over 65s and those shielding being told and supported to self isolate indefinitely seems reasonable. Wearing masks in indoor / covered / crowded public places seems reasonable. If you have the virus then self isolating seems reasonable. But some of the other restrictions, “local lockdowns” etc just seem to be killing companies and the economy on a much larger scale than they are saving lives. I don’t have the answer, no one does. My opinion is just that the dial has moved too far in one direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 3 hours ago, WalkedUp said: I don’t have the answer, no one does. My opinion is just that the dial has moved too far in one direction. The answer is to keep two meters apart, wash hands frequently avoid crowds and wear a mask. If we all did that the virus would not spread. Unfortunately whilst many people are happy to follow this there are many that can't or can't be bothered. We don't as a population own (believe in the benefit for ourselves) the solution. What's in it for me comes to mind when the leadership be it politicians or footballers don't give a toss and set the wrong example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 2 hours ago, oowee said: The answer is to keep two meters apart, wash hands frequently avoid crowds and wear a mask. If we all did that the virus would not spread. Unfortunately whilst many people are happy to follow this there are many that can't or can't be bothered. We don't as a population own (believe in the benefit for ourselves) the solution. What's in it for me comes to mind when the leadership be it politicians or footballers don't give a toss and set the wrong example. Agree with that ,they should have kept to those simple basic rules all along ,it wasn`t a great imposition to keep apart in shops etc but they eased the 2m rule far too quickly . What we have now is just a complicated point scoring mess and I feel the gov are losing the goodwill of the sensible general public . Government by media is the basic problem that we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 7 hours ago, oowee said: The answer is to keep two meters apart, wash hands frequently avoid crowds and wear a mask. If we all did that the virus would not spread. Unfortunately whilst many people are happy to follow this there are many that can't or can't be bothered. We don't as a population own (believe in the benefit for ourselves) the solution. What's in it for me comes to mind when the leadership be it politicians or footballers don't give a toss and set the wrong example. 4 hours ago, matone said: Agree with that ,they should have kept to those simple basic rules all along ,it wasn`t a great imposition to keep apart in shops etc but they eased the 2m rule far too quickly . What we have now is just a complicated point scoring mess and I feel the gov are losing the goodwill of the sensible general public . Government by media is the basic problem that we have. These two posts pretty much nail it for me . We only need such strict rules because of the stupid and selfish people, normal people use common sense , and don't need strict and confusing/contradictory rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 The government and the police operate through consensus and if 50% of the population start ignoring the government / the ever changing rules then it’s over - the police are already overstretched and have lots of important things to do and arresting people for not wearing a mask etc isn’t going to happen. People have had enough and they’ve worked out that if they’re fit and under 65, it’s not (now) the life ending illness they were told it was back in March. Indeed, if you’re over 65 you’re not constrained of a mortgage, a career, family obligations you can isolate to your heart’s content and you really should given that statistically you are in the group most at risk. Everyone else, back to work. And why the pant filling about students getting it? They’re in their own bubbles, away from home and our best shot at beating this with herd immunity. I’ve been a committed conservative all my life and I’ll never vote for them again. What will the history books will make of this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 On 10/10/2020 at 15:12, AVB said: It’s the reality and there are many examples where young people take priority. Doctors will fight tooth and nail to save the life of a youngster but DNR notices are common amongst the elderly. That would be if the older person outlook was poor with or without treatment, you say there are many examples can you share a few. Quote And why the pant filling about students getting it? They’re in their own bubbles, away from home and our best shot at beating this with herd immunity. I’ve been a committed conservative all my life and I’ll never vote for them again. And you think the students will keep it to themselves, that is not the way it works. As for Herd immunity that will not happen without a vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Mungler said: I’ve been a committed conservative all my life and I’ll never vote for them again. There will be many similar minded. Johnson has made a dog’s dinner of his ill fated premiership thus far, but almost everything and everyone has been against him. In what should be a moment of national unity we have Wales and Scotland showboating on the sidelines. To be fair to Kier Starmer he has done a decent job of making Labour look helpful rather than deliberately contrary, certainly they have not been attacking the government and one can only assume that is through valour rather than incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 You are not talking about comparing like with like, my good friend "E" is a senior manager in a London hospital. Her hospital is filling up rapidly and its political, capacity v resources. She says another week or so and it S hits Fan time. Hospital capacity is almost as fragile as egg shells. Then difficult decisions become who lives and who dies. Once doctors reach that stage they become judge and jury The original concept of Triage has its origins in the battlefield hospitals of WW1, Tri =3 so 3 paths patients were assessed level 1 = not sufficienty wounded to require admission, refer to dressing station Level2 serious enough to admit with good prospect of positive outcome level 3 Too far gone, put them out side and shoot them up with enough morphine to give them a peaceful end In that respect, little has changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 Didn’t a member here have COVID a while back? How are they doing? I personally don’t know anyone that has had it except a guy that tested positive while having a pre surgery screening. He never felt sick though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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