An example of why COVID infections are on the rise.

[Newbie to this]

33 minutes ago, AVB said:

They built those Nightingale hospitals that store idle before being mothballed

I was listening to LBC the other day, and they had a consultant doctor responsible for a 1000 bed hospital on, he was talking about the Nightingale hospitals, and (my interpretation) basically saying they were just a smoke and mirror exercise.

He said his 1000 bed hospital, requires 4000 staff to operate, and these Nightingale hospitals had no staff, and he was informed that if his hospital needed to refer a patient to one of the Nightingale hospitals, that he also had to send the staff required to care for the patient. Staff that were needed at his hospital.

Going by his numbers a 10000 bed hospital would require 40000 staff.

[treetree]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

That is complete rubbish - no evidence (or credible scientist) at all suggests that is the case.  If you haven't got it by now, you still have exactly the same chance of catching it as you have always had.  If you have had it - you (probably) won't get it 

Thats not what I meant, I meant that if by now you haven't got that the lockdown and continued strangulation of the economy is the most disproportionate reaction possibly ever perpetrated by a government, then you're not ever going to see it.

They needed to just come clean months ago, and admit they got it wrong. Instead we are seeing the creating and chasing cases and pumping out the fear propaganda in an attempt to justify the the joblessness and hardships to come.

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, treetree said:

Thats not what I meant, I meant that if by now you haven't got that the lockdown and continued strangulation of the economy is the most disproportionate reaction possibly ever perpetrated by a government, then you're not ever going to see it.

My apologies - a genuine misunderstanding.

The 'political' and 'community' impact of a collapsing NHS, people unable to get treated and hospitalised would also be huge ...... and the government chose to avoid that -and 'cushion' the economy with various help schemes - which were generally well received.  A so called second peak was always a risk - and one that many European countries are also experiencing.  Sadly, it looks like it is coming here as well - and whilst the reasons are no doubt many, and also somewhat uncertain, the lockdowns have worked in damping down the spread in many countries as well as here.

I do not know where the 'spreading' is taking place - I have read that it is often pubs and clubs ..... and I have read that it is hardly ever in pubs and clubs.  I am fairly certain that it is in Universities, but the factor there is that it is much less risky for the young and healthy.  Will they bring it home to Granny and all for Christmas? 

Personally, I think too little is really known, the rules, such as they are have been badly explained, with Scotland and Wales doing everything that little bit differently (actually with much the same result) - and the only approach is a 'common sense' one.  For me - that is carry on living - but taking greater care.  My income has been cut considerably, so - yes, I am hurting the economy by spending less, but it is of necessity.  Where possible and practical I live as usual, so for example I now go to the supermarket half as often ...... but spend twice as much each visit.  I managed my usual UK based holiday and most other things are 'as normal' other than being done with greater care.

However - this will be a 'game changer' for many.  The big change I see is much greater 'working from home' for many.  That would probably have come more gradually anyway with out 'carbon target' issues looming, but it has come suddenly.

The 'hospitality' industry has always been what is called 'discretionary spending', and will always suffer in any form of financial squeeze anyway.  It is hard of course, but that is the nature of that type of business.

In my view the Govt. had a tightrope to walk between swamped NHS and people on mattresses in corridors etc., bodies piling up in refrigerated containers as some other countries did in the first wave and locking down to prevent that - but at the cost of huge subsidies and a badly shaken economy.  Much of the economic impact was inevitable as global lockdowns impacted it (tourism, travel etc.) and consequent impacts on fuel/oil markets and aviation, cruise ships.  That was not UK govt. alone.

I actually think that on a broad spectrum - the UK has trodden a fairly sensible path, though there are masses of detail deficiencies (PPE, fraud to aid packages, poor track and trace).

[discobob]

23 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

• quite a lot of people are using it as an opportunity to get rich by defrauding the support packages put in place

There is a facebook group that I am in - as a DIY'er - that by its nature has a lot of self employed people. Back when all the "help" started there were lots of them who were taking the money to buy all new tools with the money while still working. 

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, discobob said:

There is a facebook group that I am in - as a DIY'er - that by its nature has a lot of self employed people. Back when all the "help" started there were lots of them who were taking the money to buy all new tools with the money while still working. 

And I understand that there have been many fraudulent claims from for (from an example I read about) one person with many 'shell' companies claiming individually - all from one address, no traceable employees (i.e. no PAYE records) - and in one case individual arrested travelling with £81K in a suitcase back to Romania .....

Also LOTs of loans taken out where there is no practical way they can ever be repaid as there is no visible business ........

[discobob]

12 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

And I understand that there have been many fraudulent claims from for (from an example I read about) one person with many 'shell' companies claiming individually - all from one address, no traceable employees (i.e. no PAYE records) - and in one case individual arrested travelling with £81K in a suitcase back to Romania .....

Also LOTs of loans taken out where there is no practical way they can ever be repaid as there is no visible business ........

I could have claimed even though I am now permanent with a company, I still had a LTD that I have only started folding in the last week - but I didn't. There have been times over the years when I would have been eligible for certain benefits albeit only for a month or two - and didn't. I have floated this earlier that people who benefited off of Furlough and SEISS or whatever it is called should pay it back over x years in the same way that a student pays back a student loan - split with the employer because they both benefitted. I say this as someone who has been lucky enough to be able to do their work fully remote and have worked every day (except mandated holidays that we had to take).

 

[clangerman]

the depths people sink to never surprise me taking advantage in this type of situation is like stealing a charity box 

[JohnfromUK]

47 minutes ago, clangerman said:

the depths people sink to never surprise me taking advantage in this type of situation is like stealing a charity box 

Benefit, government support scheme and tax/NI fraud overall is a whole industry in itself in certain circles (the so called black economy in the UK is estimated to be 150 billion a year, 10% of GDP), has been for years.  No gov't (of either persuasion) has ever really determined to tackle it - despite all claiming they will, and that is also fraud in a way.

[Raja Clavata]

The Police paid the household a visit today. Sounds like the family talked their way out of it and to be honest I suspect the Police has better things to be doing with their time.

[ordnance]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

The Police paid the household a visit today. Sounds like the family talked their way out of it and to be honest I suspect the Police has better things to be doing with their time.

Better things than enforcing the law, that is their job. 

[Raja Clavata]

15 hours ago, ordnance said:

Better things than enforcing the law, that is their job. 

Sorry, I should have explained better... One of the family was home when the Police visited - she told a pack of lies but the Police aren't going to launch an investigation around this and pick holes in their story. At least they attended which in itself should give the selfish so and so's something to think about.

[Rewulf]

18 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Sorry, I should have explained better... One of the family was home when the Police visited - she told a pack of lies but the Police aren't going to launch an investigation around this and pick holes in their story. At least they attended which in itself should give the selfish so and so's something to think about.

The worst part of this whole debacle...
The girls need a new nail tech ! 

[Guest cookoff013]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54539328

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 minutes ago, cookoff013 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54539328

Surely they have seals on that need to be broken?

[Scully]

And here’s another example.

Went to a pub last night where a bloke admitted he had been at work all week with a lad who told him he had just tested positive. 
I didn’t know this until the bloke had left the pub. Interesting few days ahead! 🤔

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Interesting few days ahead!

Firstly, I hope all goes well for you.

Secondly - actions like this is what will put pubs and the hospitality sector out of business.  Others have posted how several of their local establishments have acted very well and responsibly to set up a safe establishment .......... but the best and most careful landlord in the world cannot control every act of stupidity perpetrated by his customers.

The only two confirmed cases I know personally were contracted in a pub/restaurant where 2 infected (and I understand asymptomatic) staff were proven to have infected several customers.

[Scully]

Thankyou. 
Yes, we have two cases similar to yours, in that a local hotelier and his wife in town have been found to be asymptomatic, and the hotel has been closed as a result and all customers informed. 

[bavarianbrit]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:36, JohnfromUK said:

Benefit, government support scheme and tax/NI fraud overall is a whole industry in itself in certain circles (the so called black economy in the UK is estimated to be 150 billion a year, 10% of GDP), has been for years.  No gov't (of either persuasion) has ever really determined to tackle it - despite all claiming they will, and that is also fraud in a way.

HMRC could do a background check on every white van owner as a starter suggestion.

[JohnfromUK]

Another example;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8851065/British-anti-maskers-behaved-like-spoilt-brats-refused-wear-masks.html

If you have a "medical condition" that prevents you using a mask, then you should still behave sensibly and cautiously ........ not be globe trotting 'protesting'.

I don't believe for one minute these people have genuine medical conditions - bearing in mind they were there for an 'anti lockdown protest'.  It brings into question the whole 'concession' not to wear a mask for medical reasons, which are no doubt present for a few genuine cases (who I suspect are cautious and careful) as many of such people will be vulnerable.

Edited October 18, 2020 by JohnfromUK

[Scully]

9 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

HMRC could do a background check on every white van owner as a starter suggestion.

Yeah, let’s allow sweeping generalisations to dictate policy; that’ll work. 🙂

[Dave-G]

9 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

HMRC could do a background check on every white van owner as a starter suggestion.

I suggest that would be uneconomic to service for fairly petty amounts.

[amateur]

9 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

HMRC could do a background check on every white van owner as a starter suggestion.

Black vans matter too

[Guest cookoff013]

23 hours ago, amateur said:

Black vans matter too

All vans matter.

[Bigbob]

Covid is on the rise as students are ar**h*les  We regularly have 40/50 meeting in a ressie court yards and we spend all night trying to seperate them and get them back to groups of 6 per kitchen  now when they see us they scatter but start creeping back out and wont listen to us .

We regularly get fire alarms and when they evacuate the non isolators are supposed to go to there fire point and social distance  ,then the isolators come out and go to a seperate area not a chance in hell they all mix and cuddle each other , where you been hows it going ? etc 

There's a flat 2 confirmed cases  the rest of that flat should isolate for 2 weeks  ,one guys out for smokes and walks round the building then disappears for a hour at a time tries to get into party's  in other flats kitchen if you don't catch him and ask his to go back inside one night he was recorded going out nearly 20 times 

No wonder there worried about a rise at xmas when the students go home , It seems the students dont even care about there family members 

[clangerman]

watching local news piece on the post office not one worker in the sorting office was wearing a mask no wonder it’s on the rise with clowns like the post office