Electric car running costs

[Farmboy91]

2 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

If that's your metric (clear skies due to lack of vapour trails), look up Sept 12, 2001. 

 

The impact of aviation, is, in my opinion, way overstated.  2% of global CO2 emissions, and 12% of transport emissions, according to ATAG.  Mandy Rice Davies applies, obviously.  And given its necessity to the global economy, one that should be tolerated whilst other emitters are targeted.  Power generation from open cast coal mining, for instance.

One suspects the overstatement can be attributed to the chattering classes reductivism "Gad, the great unwashed are flying everywhere, and it causes pollution.  We can't have that now, can we".

 

I'm not saying I believed it either way.

There'll always be another problem and another solution that doesn't really solve the problem. 

 

[stu64]

I don't know much about electric cars but did hear somewhere batteries last 6/7 years? at a replacement cost of 5k-6k? some manufacturers "rent" you the batteries at a monthly cost. this obviously adds to the running costs considerably. I certainly can't afford a new electric car and wouldn't want a second hand one just to worry about a big battery replacement bill either. I can see late model petrol and diesel car prices going up as we near the time.

[stu64]

Also, wish I only paid 12p per unit for electricity. mines been 14 or 15p for ages.

[oowee]

18 minutes ago, stu64 said:

Also, wish I only paid 12p per unit for electricity. mines been 14 or 15p for ages.

I saw that. I think I am paying 13p with bulb green energy deal but I guess it depends on the standing charge too? 

Edited November 19, 2020 by oowee

[old'un]

Ok, we are being forced to go all electric in ten years time but I do wonder what difference it will make globally.

[Old farrier]

Is it all electric ?

or 

non petrol and diesel ? 

maybe just maybe we are running out of oil 

 

[clangerman]

51 minutes ago, old'un said:

Ok, we are being forced to go all electric in ten years time but I do wonder what difference it will make globally.

biggest difference will be the price of electricity once they have us all trapped in electric cars first thing you will hear is electricity has to increase in price because cars are now electric followed by as many price hikes as they can get away with as usual all about the money not the planet 

[islandgun]

Anyone use straight veg oil or re-cycled veg oil ?

[amateur]

9 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Anyone use straight veg oil or re-cycled veg oil ?

When the price difference between supermarket veg oil and diesel was substantially beneficial, I used to add 10 litres of rape seed oil to 35 litres of diesel. No ill effects and the performance was the same, but it's no longer economically viable and not worth the faffing around.

[old'un]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

biggest difference will be the price of electricity once they have us all trapped in electric cars first thing you will hear is electricity has to increase in price because cars are now electric followed by as many price hikes as they can get away with as usual all about the money not the planet 

I was thinking more of the effect the UK will have globally on green house gases, I would think that if everyone in the UK went electric tomorrow it would be like a splash in the ocean.

There are other things to think about regarding our footprint, the production and disposal of batteries, the manufacture of wind turbines and disposal at end of life.

There is also the problem of charging points at residential properties, how many people have a drive to park on, or able to park on the road outside their property, there’s a lot of Victorian properties where finding a parking outside your property is difficult.

I think it should be done in stages, first move to hybrid then slowly move to all electric.

[Old farrier]

Is there enough cobalt  or lithium on the planet to make all the batteries 

[AVB]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

I saw that. I think I am paying 13p with bulb green energy deal but I guess it depends on the standing charge too? 

I am paying 13p with Green Energy at the moment although I looked at last three years bills and used 12p as the average. 

[Westward]

14 minutes ago, old'un said:

there’s a lot of Victorian properties where finding a parking outside your property is difficult.

That will be a huge problem. Round here the overwhelming majority of homes are either flats in new developments, new town houses and Victorian or even Georgian town houses.

We have off road parking as do 3 or 4 houses in the vicinity but down the lane there are 2 terraces at right angles to the lane and none of them has vehicle access. There's room for about 12 cars on the lane but that's not enough, meaning that some have to park in a nearby close. There are 2 street lamps but neither has a charging point and 1 is on the wrong side anyway.

In these old industrial towns, only a minority of properties include off road parking and it's the same all over the country. Our youngest and his wife live in a very nice property in a very nice part of Surrey, but only 3 or 4 houses in their road have parking and even then it's for only 1 vehicle.

Whilst I accept that an electric car would be ideal for my wife as we can park on our property, I simply cannot see how the government can be so blind that they can plan to abolish internal combustion powered cars at the stroke of a pen within 10 - 20 years. It's just an amateurish PR stunt that's bound to miss all it's targets.

[London Best]

36 minutes ago, Westward said:

That will be a huge problem. Round here the overwhelming majority of homes are either flats in new developments, new town houses and Victorian or even Georgian town houses.

We have off road parking as do 3 or 4 houses in the vicinity but down the lane there are 2 terraces at right angles to the lane and none of them has vehicle access. There's room for about 12 cars on the lane but that's not enough, meaning that some have to park in a nearby close. There are 2 street lamps but neither has a charging point and 1 is on the wrong side anyway.

In these old industrial towns, only a minority of properties include off road parking and it's the same all over the country. Our youngest and his wife live in a very nice property in a very nice part of Surrey, but only 3 or 4 houses in their road have parking and even then it's for only 1 vehicle.

Whilst I accept that an electric car would be ideal for my wife as we can park on our property, I simply cannot see how the government can be so blind that they can plan to abolish internal combustion powered cars at the stroke of a pen within 10 - 20 years. It's just an amateurish PR stunt that's bound to miss all it's targets.

I agree with every word of this post. Parked vehicles are a real nuisance all over the country. They must cause loads of accidents and can prevent access by emergency vehicles.   
I have said for years that if you do not have off road parking somewhere you should not be allowed a vehicle there.

[ditchman]

13 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Is there enough cobalt  or lithium on the planet to make all the batteries 

are there enough children in central africa willing to dig it out in the first place.............they are dying like flies

[Old farrier]

16 minutes ago, ditchman said:

are there enough children in central africa willing to dig it out in the first place.............they are dying like flies

We need to be training dolphins to hunt for it on the seabed 🤭🤔

[AVB]

11 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

We need to be training dolphins to hunt for it on the seabed 🤭🤔

Considering that the majority of lithium comes from sea water that is more realistic than using African children. 

[AVB]

I am surprised at the amount of hostility towards electric cars on PW. The government has a lot to do to convince people that they are the way forward. The ban on petrol/diesel cars isn’t coming in overnight, there’s another 9 years to go and an awful lot will change in respect of technology in that time. Let’s consider the facts though. 

1) oil is a  diminishing commodity. Electricity can always be generated 

2) a petrol/diesel car will always generate pollution both at the tailpipe and in the refinement of oil. An electric car will always not generate pollution at the tailpipe and, depending on the source of electricity, may generate none at source. 

3) electric cars are currently cheaper to run. 

[London Best]

Do you really think the government are going to cease receiving all the revenue from diesel/petrol vehicles and not tax EVs to death. Dream on.

Electric cars are currently totally impractical for anyone who wants to go any distance.

They are practical only as shopping trolleys.

Edited November 20, 2020 by London Best

[Flyboy1950]

As much as I would like to think that Hydrogen powered vehicles would become a reality, I suspect that most of the inventions that have been developed by individuals have been bought out/supressed by the oil/motor industry.They didnt/dont want the competition. Also the Govt cant collect revenue from some one filling their car up from their home tap, unlike chaining the motorist to the fuel pumps or electric meters.

As a boy in the 60s I read in a motoring magazine about a mini being run in the channel islands on water. British Leyland were doing the testing, but that disappeared.

[ditchman]

13 minutes ago, AVB said:

I am surprised at the amount of hostility towards electric cars on PW. The government has a lot to do to convince people that they are the way forward. The ban on petrol/diesel cars isn’t coming in overnight, there’s another 9 years to go and an awful lot will change in respect of technology in that time. Let’s consider the facts though. 

1) oil is a  diminishing commodity. Electricity can always be generated 

2) a petrol/diesel car will always generate pollution both at the tailpipe and in the refinement of oil. An electric car will always not generate pollution at the tailpipe and, depending on the source of electricity, may generate none at source. 

3) electric cars are currently cheaper to run. 

i am not hostile to an electric car .......i would love to own one....but at 26 thousand quid for a standard one that aint going to happen......most of the people i have talked to...have made me aware of the pitfalls and reducing battery life...the cost of new battery packs on a 2nd hand car...........the depreciation on a new car is horrific.............then you listen to the science media about battery development and new developments are being made every month..........why should i spend 26k on something that is going to be outdated in a couple of mths..........there is an enormous ammount of manufacturing that goes into an electric car.........and the battery......the carbon footprint must be enormous.......

being mechanically minded....Hydrogen gas fueled cars scream sense to me...ok ...folk complain that it requires alot of energy to crack H2O into Hydrogen......well.........then invest money into the system..........like they are doing with Fusion reactors.............there just seems some some of intense dislike for the Hydrogen system....i wonder why

i hope to god Ryobi dont get into electric cars.....cause the batteries wont last 5 mins......

[udderlyoffroad]

4) Electric cars require massive amounts of oil and minerals in their manufacture

5) Despite the fact we have 9 years to go, the manufacturers really haven't produced products that meets the needs of the average PW user.  There's a good reason for this.  Drag increases with the square of speed (think the size of the engine in a Bugatti Veyron compared to an Audi repmobile, that extra 100 mph requires massive amounts of power).  So towing trailers drops the range off a cliff.  This is why the promised pick ups and actual trucks have yet to appear.  They just will not get the claimed range in real world use.

 

All that said

5 minutes ago, London Best said:

Electric cars are currently totally impractical for anyone who wants to go any distance immediately

Is total nonsense.  You leave your house in the morning - remember the 'tank is full' because you've charged it overnight at home.  So say 300miles, immediately.  Gets you pretty far, no?

 

 

4 minutes ago, AVB said:

The ban on the sale of new petrol/diesel cars isn’t coming in overnight

Fixed it for you

 

1 minute ago, ditchman said:

Hydrogen gas fueled cars scream sense to me...ok ...folk complain that it requires alot of energy to crack H2O into Hydrogen......well.........then invest money into the system..........like they are doing with Fusion reactors.............there just seems some some of intense dislike for the Hydrogen system....i wonder why

Because you can't cheat physics.  

Hydrogen is the energy storage medium, not the energy source.

Building tanks to even store the stuff is challenging because hydrogen gas atoms are so small, it will leak out, which makes ICE running them hard going.

Hyrdogen fuel celled cars can be built now, but fundamentally all they are is a different type of battery for an EV.  One which is miles less practical than a 'conventional' battery.

 

[London Best]

I spoke to a man charging his Tesla at a motorway services. He kept banging on about acceleration. When I queried the range he said that, to be practical, he only got about 120 miles. I need vehicles which can do at least 200 miles and then park in a wood all day with no charging facilities and then drive home with no worries.

Edited November 20, 2020 by London Best

[AVB]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

I spoke to a man charging his Tesla at a motorway services. He kept banging on about acceleration. When I queried the range he said that, to be practical, he only got about 120 miles. I need vehicles which can do at least 200 miles and then park in a wood all day with no charging facilities and then drive home with no worries.

If he is getting 120 miles out of it he must be driving it like it is stolen (and probably why he was banging on about acceleration). I have the largest tesla with what was the smallest battery available at the time (75KWh). That does 200-250 on a run. The newer ones are over 300 and the Plaid version coming out next year will be 500. 

 

1 hour ago, Flyboy1950 said:

As much as I would like to think that Hydrogen powered vehicles would become a reality, I suspect that most of the inventions that have been developed by individuals have been bought out/supressed by the oil/motor industry.They didnt/dont want the competition. Also the Govt cant collect revenue from some one filling their car up from their home tap, unlike chaining the motorist to the fuel pumps or electric meters.

As a boy in the 60s I read in a motoring magazine about a mini being run in the channel islands on water. British Leyland were doing the testing, but that disappeared.

Do you in an honesty believe that? Where are these people who surely would have made an absolute mint from selling their invention to the oil companies? Or where they secretly ‘knocked off’? 

[Westward]

I'm not hostile to EVs per se. A smaller one would be ideal for my wife since her car has only once done more than 100 miles in single day. Right now AFAIK that's the obvious market. And let's not forget that the range of them is dependent on the time of year and the driving conditions. It may be 200 miles theoretically but how often are the conditions ideal. I agree with Ditchy and others and my cash is staying put until EVs become both practical and affordable longer term propositions.

What I am hostile too is having even more of our ancient personal freedoms trampled on by forcing people out of their chosen mode of transport, simply to appease a bunch of climate hysterics who have no real knowledge of what they're spouting about. And with a government that takes advice from the loudest shouters and practises knee jerk decision making (viz: Covid) and then follows up with a U turns, I'm hoping the 2030 cutoff will get pushed back.