Covid death statistics

[Walker570]

Another case of falsification in our small countryside community.  97yr old lady dies in her sleep of old age. Doctor turns up and cannot give a definite reason for death on the certificate...guess what ....he puts down covid.   One wonders just how many other such cases are being added to the scare 'em total.

[Scully]

How did you find out about this? 

[Konnie]

Possibly the doctors way to cut down on paperwork. 

[ordnance]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

How did you find out about this? 

+ 1

[snow white]

Think I said this the other day how many true deaths to COVID are there bet not so mean as the want you to believe 

[AVB]

36 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Another case of falsification in our small countryside community.  97yr old lady dies in her sleep of old age. Doctor turns up and cannot give a definite reason for death on the certificate...guess what ....he puts down covid.   One wonders just how many other such cases are being added to the scare 'em total.

A doctor can’t give ‘Old Age’ as a reason for death. Needs to be a specific medical condition such as heart failure or in the current climate, Covid. 

[Scully]

I’m just curious to know how so many folk seem to be privy to what Dr’s are writing on death certificates. 🤷‍♂️

[henry d]

Happens all the time.

My mother died, according to the doctor of 1a. Bronchopneumonia 1b. COPD 2. Dementia

I would have had 2 first as it is most likely that due to her diminished mental ill health she ended up with with 1a and due to her 1b ended up dead, but I am not medically trained.

[Walker570]

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m just curious to know how so many folk seem to be privy to what Dr’s are writing on death certificates. 🤷‍♂️

From her son.

[amateur]

19 minutes ago, AVB said:

A doctor can’t give ‘Old Age’ as a reason for death. Needs to be a specific medical condition such as heart failure or in the current climate, Covid. 

Strange. Both my parents died last year at age 96. The certificate said "Senescence" in both cases.

I could not argue with that.

Edited December 9, 2020 by amateur

[AVB]

6 minutes ago, henry d said:

Happens all the time.

My mother died, according to the doctor of 1a. Bronchopneumonia 1b. COPD 2. Dementia

I would have had 2 first as it is most likely that due to her diminished mental ill health she ended up with with 1a and due to her 1b ended up dead, but I am not medically trained.

It looks to me that the doctor thought that dementia was a significant condition contributing or death but not related to the condition causing it!

here Is the guidance for the completion of death certificates 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

[JDog]

When my mother died aged 93 after being very frail for a number of years the doctor put the cause of death as something indescribable which would have necessitated an autopsy.

The Registrar refused to accept it,  and so did I for obvious reasons. I stood in the doctors office until she changed the cause of death to 'old age'.

[Lloyd90]

That's the thing, people don't die of old age. Normally something gives up the ghost, heart / organ failure etc. 

It's mad to think Doctor's going around advertising their medical notes these days. Only months ago most family members of people in hospital would have trouble remembering the basic details about the relative when asked. 🙄

[ShootingEgg]

9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

That's the thing, people don't die of old age. Normally something gives up the ghost, heart / organ failure etc. 

It's mad to think Doctor's going around advertising their medical notes these days. Only months ago most family members of people in hospital would have trouble remembering the basic details about the relative when asked. 🙄

But surely old age isnthe reason for aay the heart stopping or kodney failing etc. So technically at that age, being old has caused death. My gran was put down as covid.. No confirmation, jualst happened to die in a home in May this year. After only a few weeks in there. 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

From her son.

Fair enough.

[henry d]

59 minutes ago, AVB said:

It looks to me that the doctor thought that dementia was a significant condition contributing or death but not related to the condition causing it!

Absolutely, but it also asks questions about our perceptions, could we not just put down that it was a lack of breathing as all death is such? The docs know their stuff, we have our ideas and they may converge or diverge. My sister says it was Lewy Bodies and she did display the symptoms but unless they did an autopsy we won't know. The OP says old age the doc says Covid...

[Scully]

42 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

That's the thing, people don't die of old age. Normally something gives up the ghost, heart / organ failure etc. 

It's mad to think Doctor's going around advertising their medical notes these days. Only months ago most family members of people in hospital would have trouble remembering the basic details about the relative when asked. 🙄

Whatever happened to good old ‘natural causes’ ? 🙂
 

[amateur]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

here Is the guidance for the completion of death certificates 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

Thank you for posting this.

It appears that "old age"  can be used in certain circumstances, which criteria fitted my parents exactly.

[Rob85]

Covid could be on the death certificate as a contributing factor because she didn't get the medical attention she should have been getting due to so much of the service being tied up by covid 19.

It's common knowledge that some deaths are recorded as covid related even when they didn't have covid t the time of death. Did she perhaps have covid within the previous 28 days but recovered? If you have covid and recover but get hit by a bus within 28 days then due to the way deaths are counted covid will be in there somewhere.

Her son can dispute the cause of death and have it investigated by the coroner who can overrule what the doctor has on the certificate, or at the very least the doctor is made to explain why it's on the certificate for clarity.

[WalkedUp]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

Whatever happened to good old ‘natural causes’ ? 🙂
 

‘Natural causes’ has been superseded by the much more modern ‘CBA’. 

[ferguson_tom]

We have had two families at work where doctors have tried to record the death of their loved ones as covid when it clearly wasn't. One was in a care home where the 80 something year old mum had a fall and died of complications but there were cases of covid in the home. The other was very sad, a lad in his 40s had been going to the doctors with issues and eventually found out he had terminal cancer, few weeks later he was gone, he had tested positive for covid and the doctors tried to put this down as his reason for death not the cancer they had repeatedly missed. This was before they changed the wording to "died within 28 days of having a test"

I also know of a private doctor in N.Ireland who was told by his employer (a care home group) that any death in their homes was to be recorded as covid or he would never work for them again. 

[Vince Green]

We know about this already, its been discussed before. An unexplained death requires a PM but in emergency measures, at present, a covid death doesn't.

Its not the Govt trying to cook the books its the NHS doing it to avoid the PM

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

We know about this already, its been discussed before. An unexplained death requires a PM but in emergency measures, at present, a covid death doesn't.

Its not the Govt trying to cook the books its the NHS doing it to avoid the PM

There is a difference between and unexplained death and dying of cancer/heart attack etc. Only if the cause is unknown or there are suspicious circumstances is a PM required. 

[Vince Green]

10 minutes ago, AVB said:

There is a difference between and unexplained death and dying of cancer/heart attack etc. Only if the cause is unknown or there are suspicious circumstances is a PM required. 

Any death where the victim hasn't seen a doctor in a certain time period before the death, i can't give you all the detail at the moment  but that is the reason. Its been mentioned before.

They think some of the care home deaths may have fallen into this situation because GPs were refusing to go into the care homes. We will never know for sure.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Vince Green

[AVB]

15 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Any death where the victim hasn't seen a doctor in a certain time period before the death, i can't give you all the detail at the moment  but that is the reason. Its been mentioned before.

They think some of the care home deaths may have fallen into this situation because GPs were refusing to go into the care homes. We will never know for sure.

I don’t think that is the case anymore. See link

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/post-mortem/