Police charge 32 men with almost 200 sex offences against eight girls

[clangerman]

if the relevant authorities see this thread there won’t be any worries about it being racist or not glad my name is not on some of the comments 

[12gauge82]

50 minutes ago, henry d said:

Ok, the figures you quote are from the Quilliam report which has been quoted widely but is incorrect.

"The 2012 Office of the Childrens Commissioner’s call to evidence received information on 1514 offenders and from this, “individuals classified as`White’ form the largest group of perpetrators in both gangs and groups” — 545 were recorded as ‘White’, 415 were recorded as ‘Asian’, and 244 were recorded as ‘Black’ (with 21% ethnicity not provided). Asians are likely to make up a disproportionately low number of this 21% as the OCC concludes “it is evident that data are more proactively gathered on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin.”." Sourced here

It is rather long but an easy read and much of the grooming is to do with contact with the vulnerable.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that put the point stands that it is a crime carried out almost exclusively by male, Muslims of Pakistani origin, which only makes up approx 2% of population. I'm in no way saying people from that background are any less or more law abiding on average than anyone else, but clearly by those figures (or yours) there is an issue in that community with that type of offence and unless we have the courage to admit that and tackle it, there will be countless lives wrecked. 

Put another way, I think its fair to say the crime of rape is almost exclusively carried out by males, when considering that offence that needs to be considered so the offending can be targeted and tackled appropriately. It's not about colour or race, it's about tackling a crime. 

[Rewulf]

Well what do you know, the report on Asian grooming gangs came out yesterday (very quietly) due to freedom of information requests , petitions and newspaper campaigns.
Over 2 years late , its err.. been through the wash a few times, with bleach , on the very woke cycle, so its now ready for public consumption.
And guess what ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grooming-gangs-review-race-religion-home-office-b1774161.html?fbclid=IwAR38cJum5K2CA0srxGCk1PDdshlpangEbzm7J4JA8oZyzJDPAfmW_qcfVTs

[TIGHTCHOKE]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Well what do you know, the report on Asian grooming gangs came out yesterday (very quietly) due to freedom of information requests , petitions and newspaper campaigns.
Over 2 years late , its err.. been through the wash a few times, with bleach , on the very woke cycle, so its now ready for public consumption.
And guess what ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grooming-gangs-review-race-religion-home-office-b1774161.html?fbclid=IwAR38cJum5K2CA0srxGCk1PDdshlpangEbzm7J4JA8oZyzJDPAfmW_qcfVTs

A completely MISSED OPPORTUNITY, a COVER-UP, I do hope someone feels proud to have wasted all that money and time!

[Rewulf]

45 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

A completely MISSED OPPORTUNITY, a COVER-UP, I do hope someone feels proud to have wasted all that money and time!

I doubt they could publish the real findings, probably cause far too much trouble. 

It was fairly obvious when Sajid Javid called for the enquiry, then went all quiet when it was completed, I don't really think he wanted to bury it, but buried it was. 

You don't hear much of Sajid these days do you? 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

No, very quiet!

[Wharf Rat]

The empirical study published yesterday has much bearing on the speculation contained within this thread.  The qualitative interviews and methodology notes are published. 

Could someone actually take each conclusion on and point out where the 'missed opportunities' and 'cover ups' actually are, by providing an  immanent critique to the same standard as the report itself?  

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf

 

[12gauge82]

5 hours ago, Wharf Rat said:

The empirical study published yesterday has much bearing on the speculation contained within this thread.  The qualitative interviews and methodology notes are published. 

Could someone actually take each conclusion on and point out where the 'missed opportunities' and 'cover ups' actually are, by providing an  immanent critique to the same standard as the report itself?  

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf

 

The first thing I would point to unless I've missed it, is that they haven't provided the data they based their review on. The other question is why were they so reluctant to release it in the first place, I mean it's not like they've covered up a review before, like the Iraq war. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, but that study hasn't half changed its tune. 

[12gauge82]

Ethnicity
Key findings: 
• Research on offender ethnicity is limited, and tends to rely on poor quality 
data. It is therefore difficult to draw conclusions about differences in ethnicity 
of offenders, but it is likely that no one community or culture is uniquely 
predisposed to offending. 
• A number of studies have indicated an over-representation of Asian and 
Black offenders in group-based CSE. Most of the same studies show that the 
majority of offenders are White. 
• Community and cultural factors are, however, relevant to understanding and 
tackling offending. An approach to deterring, disrupting, and preventing 
offending that is sensitive to the communities in which offending occurs is 
needed.

It doesn't deney it either, very woolley indeed 

[oowee]

Many on here thought that earlier in the year the high levels of Covid were down to certain communities not following the rules. Now it's widespread there should be many on here re thinking their assumptions.

Hopefully some will take the time to read this report but I doubt they value education.

[henry d]

9 hours ago, Wharf Rat said:

The empirical study published yesterday has much bearing on the speculation contained within this thread.  The qualitative interviews and methodology notes are published. 

Could someone actually take each conclusion on and point out where the 'missed opportunities' and 'cover ups' actually are, by providing an  immanent critique to the same standard as the report itself?  

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/944206/Group-based_CSE_Paper.pdf

 

Thanks for posting the link. In response to many assumptions made by some here I found this summed it up well;

"A simplistic view that the mere fact of being ‘Asian’ is in itself explanatory of their behaviour, is dangerous not only because it is unjust and offensive to the wider community who share a South East Asian heritage. It is also dangerous because such simplistic presumptions represent a meaningless over-generalisation, that is positively unhelpful if we wish to understand why these men behaved in the way they did and therefore help to protect other potential victims. Such an approach fails to consider the combination of personal, cultural and opportunistic factors that are understood to create the conditions for sexual offending."

[Dave-G]

28 minutes ago, henry d said:

....... if we wish to understand why these men behaved in the way they did and therefore help to protect other potential victims. Such an approach fails to consider the combination of personal, cultural and opportunistic factors that are understood to create the conditions for sexual offending."

Bear in mind I'm a bit slow and dyslexic Henry but that makes it OK if it allows for diversity?

[grrclark]

42 minutes ago, henry d said:

Thanks for posting the link. In response to many assumptions made by some here I found this summed it up well;

"A simplistic view that the mere fact of being ‘Asian’ is in itself explanatory of their behaviour, is dangerous not only because it is unjust and offensive to the wider community who share a South East Asian heritage. It is also dangerous because such simplistic presumptions represent a meaningless over-generalisation, that is positively unhelpful if we wish to understand why these men behaved in the way they did and therefore help to protect other potential victims. Such an approach fails to consider the combination of personal, cultural and opportunistic factors that are understood to create the conditions for sexual offending."

It is reductionism in the extreme.

[Rewulf]

4 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The first thing I would point to unless I've missed it, is that they haven't provided the data they based their review on. The other question is why were they so reluctant to release it in the first place, I mean it's not like they've covered up a review before, like the Iraq war. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong, but that study hasn't half changed its tune. 

Spot on.

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Many on here thought that earlier in the year the high levels of Covid were down to certain communities not following the rules. Now it's widespread there should be many on here re thinking their assumptions.

Do you remember when they said the virus affected black and Asian people more ?
Strange how that assumption doesnt get aired much now.
I found an ONS graph the other day showing infection rates in the UK , and the racial demographics, guess who was at the top by a large margin ?
My partner does a lot of work in shops in Leicester , she hates it , as few wear masks, and have a casual attitude to social distancing.
The assumption isnt an assumption, its just the facts.

 

13 minutes ago, grrclark said:

 

48 minutes ago, henry d said:

"A simplistic view that the mere fact of being ‘Asian’ is in itself explanatory of their behaviour, is dangerous not only because it is unjust and offensive to the wider community who share a South East Asian heritage. It is also dangerous because such simplistic presumptions represent a meaningless over-generalisation, that is positively unhelpful if we wish to understand why these men behaved in the way they did and therefore help to protect other potential victims. Such an approach fails to consider the combination of personal, cultural and opportunistic factors that are understood to create the conditions for sexual offending."

I thought the purpose of the report was to find out why  Asians of mostly Pakistani descent committed these crimes ?
Not to see IF Asians in general commit these crimes, we KNOW that generally they dont !

If you can point me towards a group , other than Asians of Pakistani descent, that commit grooming and sexual abuse on an industrial level in multiple towns and cities , of white , vulnerable , and often underage girls, then perhaps we can accommodate your usual mantra of  'White men do it too, so stop being racist you gammon'

14 minutes ago, grrclark said:

It is reductionism in the extreme.

I would describe it as a whitewash.
They HAD to do an investigation and compile a report, public anger was high , particularly in the affected areas.
They did the research , collected the data, didnt like what it told them, so tried to bury it.

They said it wasnt in the public interest to publish it ?
What do you think that actually means ?
2 years pass by , where gov.uk hopes everyone has forgotten about it.
In the meantime, theres an endless queue at the courts as more and more men are convicted, with full press blackouts.

They were eventually forced to publish something, so cleaned all the dirt out and gave you the redacted version that blamed nobody in particular, but white men mostly.
This is (again) a report on why Asian men from mostly Pakistani descent , commit these particular type of crimes.
A phenomena the governments own figures say is committed disproportionately by this demographic.

The report obviously disagrees

[discobob]

33 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Spot on.

Do you remember when they said the virus affected black and Asian people more ?
Strange how that assumption doesnt get aired much now.
I found an ONS graph the other day showing infection rates in the UK , and the racial demographics, guess who was at the top by a large margin ?
My partner does a lot of work in shops in Leicester , she hates it , as few wear masks, and have a casual attitude to social distancing.
The assumption isnt an assumption, its just the facts.

 

I thought the purpose of the report was to find out why  Asians of mostly Pakistani descent committed these crimes ?
Not to see IF Asians in general commit these crimes, we KNOW that generally they dont !

If you can point me towards a group , other than Asians of Pakistani descent, that commit grooming and sexual abuse on an industrial level in multiple towns and cities , of white , vulnerable , and often underage girls, then perhaps we can accommodate your usual mantra of  'White men do it too, so stop being racist you gammon'

I would describe it as a whitewash.
They HAD to do an investigation and compile a report, public anger was high , particularly in the affected areas.
They did the research , collected the data, didnt like what it told them, so tried to bury it.

They said it wasnt in the public interest to publish it ?
What do you think that actually means ?
2 years pass by , where gov.uk hopes everyone has forgotten about it.
In the meantime, theres an endless queue at the courts as more and more men are convicted, with full press blackouts.

They were eventually forced to publish something, so cleaned all the dirt out and gave you the redacted version that blamed nobody in particular, but white men mostly.
This is (again) a report on why Asian men from mostly Pakistani descent , commit these particular type of crimes.
A phenomena the governments own figures say is committed disproportionately by this demographic.

The report obviously disagrees

Hammer -> Nail -> Head 👍

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, henry d said:

 

"A simplistic view that the mere fact of being ‘Asian’ is in itself explanatory of their behaviour, is dangerous not only because it is unjust and offensive to the wider community who share a South East Asian heritage. It is also dangerous because such simplistic presumptions represent a meaningless over-generalisation, that is positively unhelpful if we wish to understand why these men behaved in the way they did and therefore help to protect other potential victims. Such an approach fails to consider the combination of personal, cultural and opportunistic factors that are understood to create the conditions for sexual offending."

I absolutely agree with that statement, as do I would hope the vast majority of the country, but there's a huge difference between blaming all Asians and trying to understand why grooming gangs are formed prominently by Asian males of Pakistani origin, so that the specific crime can be tackled. Racism has nothing to do with it and to make myself absolutely clear I am not, nore I would hope is anyone on here saying that simply being from that background means your part of a sex gang. 

[12gauge82]

Just to add to the above, we all know most crimes of rape are carried out prodominantly by males rather than females (I hope we can agree there?). That fact is important as when legislation, and measures are designed to protect victims and catch offenders, the government needs to know that to be as effective as possible (I hope we can all agree there to). So to say most rapists are male, is neither sexist nore is it saying all males are rapists, I see no difference in the fact that their is a vast uptick of Male Muslims of Pakistani origin committing sex gang crimes against vulnerable white underage girls and the government doing all it can to understand why so it can be tackled. 

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Racism has nothing to do with it

I know I am taking this out of context, but racism seems to have everything to do with their choice of victim, and until this is addressed, we will never get to the root of the cause.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

I know I am taking this out of context, but racism seems to have everything to do with their choice of victim, and until this is addressed, we will never get to the root of the cause.

Ah , but only white people can be racist 😐

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

I know I am taking this out of context, but racism seems to have everything to do with their choice of victim, and until this is addressed, we will never get to the root of the cause.

Go read the report!

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

I know I am taking this out of context, but racism seems to have everything to do with their choice of victim, and until this is addressed, we will never get to the root of the cause.

Possibly, I was referring to stating that Pakistani men being the main perpetrators of grooming gangs, certainly relative to the number they represent in the uks population. 

Still they may select their victims due to their colour, or the victims circumstances, but it needs proper research and then it can be effectively dealt with. It certainly doesn't need sweeping under the carpet as that only helps evil people to get away with offending. 

[Newbie to this]

25 minutes ago, henry d said:

Go read the report!

Why, does the colour of their victims change

[12gauge82]

10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Why, does the colour of their victims change

I think Henry is so blinded by his belief that everyone is a closet racist he simply can't objectively look at anything logically. 

[Stuarta]

 I feel betrayed and let down by the pathetic way our government and the authorities have dealt with these Pakistani gangs over many years. I have even less respect for people behind this report who try to hide the truth by widening the report remit and persons who then use the report to defend these Pakistani gangs. 

[hawkfanz]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

I know I am taking this out of context, but racism seems to have everything to do with their choice of victim, and until this is addressed, we will never get to the root of the cause.

spot on