Is this the Final, Final, Final Deadline for a Deal

[TIGHTCHOKE]

How many Final deadlines have we had?

 

The EU are not going to let us get away easily, too many other countries might be keen to follow us out.

 

1. The main stumbling blocks appear to be the Fishing within our waters and their access to them.

2. The agreement to accept the EU's tariffs and increase them whenever they say so.

3. The much vaunted "level Playing field" and how we should respect it.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52937766

[Walker570]

As my wife says, it is the preview for Life of Brian 2

[Rossco89]

I don’t think the EU should have access to our waters for fishing. The demand for fish would create more jobs for the UK people and bring money in through the sale of said fish. I know very little about it, I read the linked article, no doubt it’s more complicated than that!

The EU wanting to ensure the Uk continues to abide by EU workers regulations also baffles me...if we are not part of the EU why would we follow their directives and who would or could enforce non compliance?

Kevin Bridges made a very valid comment last year - he suggested we just didn’t mention leaving anymore and hope the EU forget about it (it’s funnier when he tells it)

[AVB]

2 hours ago, Rossco89 said:

I don’t think the EU should have access to our waters for fishing. The demand for fish would create more jobs for the UK people and bring money in through the sale of said fish. I know very little about it, I read the linked article, no doubt it’s more complicated than that!

The EU wanting to ensure the Uk continues to abide by EU workers regulations also baffles me...if we are not part of the EU why would we follow their directives and who would or could enforce non compliance?

Kevin Bridges made a very valid comment last year - he suggested we just didn’t mention leaving anymore and hope the EU forget about it (it’s funnier when he tells it)

What demand for fish are you referring to? Do you think the British public will suddenly increase their consumption of fish? If the EU don’t get access to the fish then they will close off the EU as a market for British fish as well. I don’t mind a bit of fish but I am not going to eat it breakfast, lunch and dinner. 

[henry d]

2 hours ago, Rossco89 said:

The demand for fish would create more jobs for the UK people...

Have you seen the crews of the average UK trawler?

[12gauge82]

27 minutes ago, henry d said:

Have you seen the crews of the average UK trawler?

Did you see them before we joined the EU? 

[henry d]

Yeah, north shields fish quay was one of my fishing haunts, but we destroyed first the herring stocks and then the gadids, however I don't see what it has to do with Asian and African trawler men?

[JohnfromUK]

France apparently requires 84% of the fish in the channel, with 9% for the UK and presumably the remaining 7% for other EU countries.

However it seems that ALL boats filled with migrants in the channel are the responsibility of the UK.

[Lampwick]

Europe doesn’t have to stop buying the fish it will have to pay a little more! That’s all. 

However our fresh fish is exported all over the world now so no reason why that market can’t grow. 

I think EU tariffs for cod are 12% and smoked salmon 13%, will they stop buying it with those increases? By the way France has 84% of the English Channel quota for cod with GB having 9%! (lots of British fishermen made a few quid selling their quotas by the way!!) 

In England and Wales particularly, overseas owners have bought up vast swathes of fishing rights. An Unearthed investigation last autumn found that around half of England’s quota is held on Dutch, Spanish, or Icelandic-owned “flagships”, so called because they sail under a British flag. One Dutch multinational alone controls around a quarter of English quota. By comparison, the UK’s small scale, “inshore” vessels must fish from a pool of quota amounting to less than 2%, despite making up around 79% of the UK fishing fleet.

An interesting article some saw the perils others jumped in head first! https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/amp/

Could the EU have a shortage of cod? Could there be a premium on British cod? 

Is it possible that our fresh fish prices may fall? Currently it’s rather lucrative shipping it over the channel! 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Lampwick

[walshie]

It's the absolute latest, final, final, "I really mean it this time", no messing about, full stop deadline.

Until Sunday. 

[Rossco89]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

What demand for fish are you referring to? Do you think the British public will suddenly increase their consumption of fish? If the EU don’t get access to the fish then they will close off the EU as a market for British fish as well. I don’t mind a bit of fish but I am not going to eat it breakfast, lunch and dinner. 

Would the demand not still be there? But rather than it being bought from say french fishermen it will have to be bought from British? How could the EU block import of fish if there is mass demand for it?

[AVB]

15 minutes ago, Rossco89 said:

Would the demand not still be there? But rather than it being bought from say french fishermen it will have to be bought from British? How could the EU block import of fish if there is mass demand for it?

You could well be right. I wasn’t aware that we were a net importer of fish/shellfish. Although it depends on the breakdown by species. Maybe we will need to adapt our eating habits. 

[Vince Green]

I was told that the French take ten times as much cod out of British waters as we do. And thats only what they admit to, it could be much more.

The Dutch take pretty much the same ratio of herrings out of the North Sea compared to UK

This strikes me as being a crazy situation to have ever allowed ourselves to get into  

[Jaymo]

No pun intended, but surely the revenues received from fishing is a mere ‘drop in the ocean’, to increases of duties on all other goods imported?

Im sure our fleet enjoys a bit of inter territorial fishing that would also cease!

As regard to us regaining control of the North Sea and English Channel etc, doesn’t sovereign ownership only extend 12 miles off shore? 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Jaymo

[oowee]

The UK is looking to apply the same 'fair' trading restrictions on the trade agreement being negotiated with Australia, that we are seeking to avoid in our negotiations with the EU. Strange that. I guess we don't want to see UK farmers put out of business by cheap imports? 

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, Jaymo said:

Im sure our fleet enjoys a bit of inter territorial fishing that would also cease!

From what I hear sadly no - the French fishermen are well known for being "less than friendly" to other nations in "their waters"

[Jaymo]

1 minute ago, Yellow Bear said:

From what I hear sadly no - the French fishermen are well known for being "less than friendly" to other nations in "their waters"

So have some UK fisherman too, wasn’t the recently sunk trawler subject to just such ‘run ins’ ?

Your not telling me every trip ends up in conflict?

Which brings me back to ‘their waters’ and how far out that actually extends ?

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, Jaymo said:

So have some UK fisherman too, wasn’t the recently sunk trawler subject to just such ‘run ins’ ?

Your not telling me every trip ends up in conflict?

No but, again from what I hear, UK boats seldom venture into "French waters" (some of which are UK territorial waters) to avoid conflict

[AVB]

15 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

So have some UK fisherman too, wasn’t the recently sunk trawler subject to just such ‘run ins’ ?

Your not telling me every trip ends up in conflict?

Which brings me back to ‘their waters’ and how far out that actually extends ?

This is the best picture I have seen. Obviously the French area extends south which isn’t shown. 

[Jaymo]

9 minutes ago, AVB said:

This is the best picture I have seen. Obviously the French area extends south which isn’t shown. 

That’s what I was searching for, fishing territorial limits and not maritime limits.

 

Faroe Islands area looks disproportionate 

[JohnfromUK]

The French fishermen (and also to an extent the French farmers) have a well founded reputation for being 'militant' much as the miners and car workers once were here.  If they don't get their own way (through either French government or British Navy Patrol vessels action), they will blockade the ports and stop the flow of ferries and lorries carrying food, freight, and (to a lesser extent at this time with Covid), cars.  They will probably get support from the farmers to blockade the tunnel 'terminal' in France.

The French government will take little or no action.

It will be chaos.

[oowee]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

The French fishermen (and also to an extent the French farmers) have a well founded reputation for being 'militant' much as the miners and car workers once were here.  If they don't get their own way (through either French government or British Navy Patrol vessels action), they will blockade the ports and stop the flow of ferries and lorries carrying food, freight, and (to a lesser extent at this time with Covid), cars.  They will probably get support from the farmers to blockade the tunnel 'terminal' in France.

The French government will take little or no action.

It will be chaos.

It's exactly this sort of disharmony we voted for. We will get through it and just have to accept it as the price of sovereignty. 

We can always reverse the situation later. 

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's exactly this sort of disharmony we voted for.

Not so at all.  The vote eas simply to have control of our own waters - which should not give rise to disharmony.  The dividing line is 'mid way'.  However, we always knew that fishing was going to be difficult; Macron made that quite clear a long time ago when he said France would not accept any reduction.  But the disruption will be caused by the French fisherman entering UK waters when they no longer have any agreement to do so.  That is not of our doing - I understand they have been offered agreements amounting to a reduction over a phased 5 to 7 year period.  It is them breaking the international rules that will cause the 'disharmony' - and that will happen because they refused the 5 to 7 year phased transition.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

With 4 RN vessels sitting ready, will it become a "go out and watch" mission?

Or will the RN actually intervene?

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

With 4 RN vessels sitting ready, will it become a "go out and watch" mission?

Or will the RN actually intervene?

4 RN vessels against how many French boats?  How can they intervene?  There is little they can do other than escort them from British waters IF they will move to order (which I doubt they will).  They can be reported to the French authorities ......... who will do the same as they do about migrants - nothing.