Scully Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 I did say that the only effect the steel shot ban would have would be to devalue those guns we own which aren’t proofed for such, and it would seem its already proving so. Mate has just bought himself a new auto from Malmo Guns, and was told they will only part ex’ his current auto if it is steel proofed. He was told they are no longer buying as part ex’, autos which are not steel proofed as no one wants them, and gave the decision by our shooting orgs to call for a voluntary lead shot phase out, as the cause. He was told they have quite a collection of good S/H autos which no one wants, so that’s it, no more bought in. The policy doesn’t effect Trap guns, for obvious reasons, but game guns weren’t mentioned. It’s all quite sad really, because you CAN shoot steel through ANY gun proofed for nitro. It would seem there is still, after all these years, a massive mistrust of, and misunderstanding regarding steel shot and none steel shot proofed guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) RFD's will look for any excuse regardless to give you pennies for a gun. To be fair to them, in-order to make any money on it they need to buy them in cheap. If they are buying them in for near theur value, then there's no profit to be made. They are better off selling a new gun with a higher profit margin in that case. If ther gun is worth what the bloke wants stick it on autotrader. GUNTRADER!! Edited February 23, 2021 by Lloyd90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjaferret Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 AUTOTRADER ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said: RFD's will look for any excuse regardless to give you pennies for a gun. To be fair to them, in-order to make any money on it they need to buy them in cheap. If they are buying them in for near theur value, then there's no profit to be made. They are better off selling a new gun with a higher profit margin in that case. If ther gun is worth what the bloke wants stick it on autotrader. don't think thats the best idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, ninjaferret said: AUTOTRADER ??????? Guntrader I meant 1 minute ago, Ttfjlc said: don't think thats the best idea Do you think you'd get more on Autotrader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Do you think you'd get more on Autotrader? If you did mate you'd be the best salesman I've seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Ttfjlc said: If you did mate you'd be the best salesman I've seen Bound to get more than the RFD's are giving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 ooh! 👜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Scully said: I did say that the only effect the steel shot ban would have would be to devalue those guns we own which aren’t proofed for such, and it would seem its already proving so. Mate has just bought himself a new auto from Malmo Guns, and was told they will only part ex’ his current auto if it is steel proofed. He was told they are no longer buying as part ex’, autos which are not steel proofed as no one wants them, and gave the decision by our shooting orgs to call for a voluntary lead shot phase out, as the cause. He was told they have quite a collection of good S/H autos which no one wants, so that’s it, no more bought in. The policy doesn’t effect Trap guns, for obvious reasons, but game guns weren’t mentioned. It’s all quite sad really, because you CAN shoot steel through ANY gun proofed for nitro. It would seem there is still, after all these years, a massive mistrust of, and misunderstanding regarding steel shot and none steel shot proofed guns. Possibly an opportunity to get a few bargains perhaps? I bet they would have people buy them if they were at a decent price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, ninjaferret said: AUTOTRADER ??????? Well, he was semi half right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, Ttfjlc said: Possibly an opportunity to get a few bargains perhaps? My thoughts exactly! 🙂A bit of a bargaining tool right there! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimo22 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Must say that if I brought another auto I would want it steel proofed, as I shoot ducks and use steel. But I own two other guns that are not steel proofed and not concerned . Went to a BASC steel shot day and put some steel carts through one on some clay an shot well with them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Scully said: I did say that the only effect the steel shot ban would have would be to devalue those guns we own which aren’t proofed for such, and it would seem its already proving so. Mate has just bought himself a new auto from Malmo Guns, and was told they will only part ex’ his current auto if it is steel proofed. He was told they are no longer buying as part ex’, autos which are not steel proofed as no one wants them, and gave the decision by our shooting orgs to call for a voluntary lead shot phase out, as the cause. He was told they have quite a collection of good S/H autos which no one wants, so that’s it, no more bought in. The policy doesn’t effect Trap guns, for obvious reasons, but game guns weren’t mentioned. It’s all quite sad really, because you CAN shoot steel through ANY gun proofed for nitro. It would seem there is still, after all these years, a massive mistrust of, and misunderstanding regarding steel shot and none steel shot proofed guns. I advertised some chokes for sale on here and was asked if they were 'steel' proof. As they were Mod and less I presumed that they were perfectly safe to use with steel. I suspect that we now have a new generation of shooters who have been brainwashed when it comes to steel shot and proofing ? After all, not only does ingested lead shot kill millions of wildfowl every year, it vapourises them into the bargain ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Scully said: It’s all quite sad really, because you CAN shoot steel through ANY gun proofed for nitro. did basc not announce that they had contracted the proof house to do a study/report on steel shoot through any gun. Please state on what peer reviewed scientific evidence you made your statement. because whist as an individual you may make such a statement and take the risk, you have to consider the legal consequences, ie should an accident occur you would be using ammunition in a gun that was never designed for such ammunition which would be very difficult to defend in a court of law, without scientific evidence to the contrary. Have you checked your insurance actually covers you for such a situation, regularly using the wrong ammunition. has not browning stated that steel shot should only be used in steel proof guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: did basc not announce that they had contracted the proof house to do a study/report on steel shoot through any gun. Please state on what peer reviewed scientific evidence you made your statement. because whist as an individual you may make such a statement and take the risk, you have to consider the legal consequences, ie should an accident occur you would be using ammunition in a gun that was never designed for such ammunition which would be very difficult to defend in a court of law, without scientific evidence to the contrary. Have you checked your insurance actually covers you for such a situation, regularly using the wrong ammunition. has not browning stated that steel shot should only be used in steel proof guns. Oh please! Common sense dictates you can shoot steel through any nitro proofed gun. Isn’t it common knowledge that current advice is that you can use steel shot through none steel shot proofed guns? Aren’t they made from the same steel in exactly the same manner? As for Browning, don’t they have a vested interest in creating new sales? 😀 Edited February 23, 2021 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Scully said: Oh please! Common sense dictates you can shoot steel through any nitro proofed gun. Isn’t it common knowledge that current advice is that you can use steel shot through none steel shot proofed guns? Aren’t they made from the same steel in exactly the same manner? As for Browning, don’t they have a vested interest in creating new sales? 😀 But consider it from the gun shops point of view and product liability, the customer wants a gun to shoot steel shot, oh yes sir any nitro proofed gun will do it’s a load of old rubbish that it must be steel proofed. Then I will take this one, looks nice but not steel shoot proofed, a few weeks later the customer returns the gun is damaged may be in the forcing cone area or by the chokes. Customer you told me it was ok to shoot steel shot, please give me a new gun. Their is a reason we have guns proofed is their not, if not why bother with it. google steel shoot damages guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 I expect that all of us that own un-sellable guns will have to wait for a cheap bismuth like nt shot , as has been said a buyers market for some class but possibly obsolete shotguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 9 hours ago, islandgun said: I expect that all of us that own un-sellable guns will have to wait for a cheap bismuth like nt shot , as has been said a buyers market for some class but possibly obsolete shotguns. Indeed. There may come a time when the value of our S1 auto’s are doubled simply by filling the mag’ with Bismuth! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 10 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: But consider it from the gun shops point of view and product liability, the customer wants a gun to shoot steel shot, oh yes sir any nitro proofed gun will do it’s a load of old rubbish that it must be steel proofed. Then I will take this one, looks nice but not steel shoot proofed, a few weeks later the customer returns the gun is damaged may be in the forcing cone area or by the chokes. Customer you told me it was ok to shoot steel shot, please give me a new gun. Their is a reason we have guns proofed is their not, if not why bother with it. google steel shoot damages guns. Ok. Think of it logically. Are shotgun barrels proofed for steel made with different materials or in a different manner than those proofed for nitro? Do you know, cos I don’t. However, if they are made differently, then how come it is perfectly acceptable to submit your nitro proofed gun for steel shot proofing? If you can have your nitro proofed gun proofed for steel, isn’t it just logical that it is obviously capable of handling steel, or do nitro proofed guns fail during steel shot proofing? If you’re in doubt about using steel in your non steel shot proofed gun, then just shoot it through nothing tighter than half choke, which I believe is BASC’s recommendation for such. I’m not really interested in googling steel shot damages guns, I’ve been putting steel through my non steel shot proofed guns for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windswept Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 10 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: Their is a reason we have guns proofed is their not, if not why bother with it. These threads often don't mention the difference between high performance steel and standard steel. Unless I'm mistaken, a steel proofed gun will be proofed to a higher pressure so can cope with the high performance steel. A nitro proofed gun can cope with standard steel provided you follow the manufactures recommendation, e.g. choke and shot size. After that it's up to the owner to decide what they use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu64 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Taken from Gamebore website, on the super steel page- Standard Steel Standard Steel ammunition can be used in any shotgun (other than Damascus/twist barrelled guns), in good order bearing any London or Birmingham proof symbols 1954 onwards. For pre 1954 shotguns guidance will be needed from the British Proof Authority. The shotgun must be chambered for the case length of the ammunition as a minimum. Longer chamber lengths can be used with shorter ammunition. *High Performance High Performance Steel ammunition can only be used in shotguns bearing a CIP Fleur de Lys proof mark. CIP recommends a MAXIMUM choke of half (.5mm) for shot sizes 4mm and larger. Please see above for Gamebore's own recommendations based on product performance, our experience, and safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Windswept said: These threads often don't mention the difference between high performance steel and standard steel. Unless I'm mistaken, a steel proofed gun will be proofed to a higher pressure so can cope with the high performance steel. A nitro proofed gun can cope with standard steel provided you follow the manufactures recommendation, e.g. choke and shot size. After that it's up to the owner to decide what they use. So are guns proofed for HP steel made from different materials and in a different manner than those proofed for standard steel, or indeed just nitro proofed? It follows that if the answer is no, and I suspect it is so, then obviously our non steel shot proofed guns are ok for steel. Isn’t that logical? I have put HP steel through my non steel shot proofed guns also. Like you say, once you know the facts it’s up to the individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s×s Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 15 hours ago, Westley said: I advertised some chokes for sale on here and was asked if they were 'steel' proof. As they were Mod and less I presumed that they were perfectly safe to use with steel. I suspect that we now have a new generation of shooters who have been brainwashed when it comes to steel shot and proofing ? After all, not only does ingested lead shot kill millions of wildfowl every year, it vapourises them into the bargain ! You have to have a Brain to be able to wash it jmho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Thats a first it was just on the news giving it large all pheasants are full of lead shot. Do gooding bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 (edited) Google proof houses America, see how many of their guns are steel proofed. Tom Roster a pioneer off steel shot loads and lethality in killing wildfowl used a Remington k32, was it proofed for steel? I think not. I hear the same cack spouted over and over again. If your happy to use steel shot in your gun do so if not don't, simples. You can also send any gun for steel shot proofing. But why go to the expense. The gun trade are going to use the excuse to sell new guns, who wouldn't. Also true that lots won't buy a non steel proofed gun. If I was buying new I wouldn't either, why would you? Much easier to sell on later if steel.shot proofed. Edited February 24, 2021 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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