Lloyd90 Posted March 22, 2021 Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 Fair play this took some serious counting. I was surprised to see that a 29g cart was one of the top performers. You’d think the 32g would pip ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I shoot 32g Eley HV as do a few of my friends and are all very happy, however, I love getting educated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Buy whatever is local, cheap and constantly available. Use some choke, it makes a cheap cartridge work better. Don't get hung up on either the name of the cartridge or what it promises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Buy whatever is local, cheap and constantly available. Use some choke, it makes a cheap cartridge work better. Don't get hung up on either the name of the cartridge or what it promises. sound advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) Have done quite a lot of pattern testing over the years and concluded that it tells you nothing about the cartridge other than how the cartridge just fired performs in that particular gun with the chokes being used. Five cartridges statistically is nothing. change gun, choke or which barrel is used and the results will be different, no two cartridges ever produce the same pattern. It is useful to determine/verify the difference in chokes. Even patterning for gun fit is of questionable benefit. even batch to batch of the same cartridges will be different, shot quality is the biggest influence on pattern spread hence why steel and tungsten shot gives a tighter pattern. hence as said buy whatever cartridge is the cheapest. However welcome others views on the subject. Edited March 23, 2021 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just an observation: That test listed the five cartridges which patterned tightest from that barrel. How / why does that make them the best pigeon cartridge? In many situations the tightest patterning would be the least effective cartridges. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: You’d think the 32g would pip ahead. What makes you say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Each gun patterns and performs differently with each cartridge and possibly each user. Last year I was mostly using a Hatsan Escort supreme max with 30gram Lyalvale pigeon, 1/2 choke seemed to perform well. I had some very good birds with it. The cartridges were at cost as my RFD had a large order cancelled after he had taken delivery. I gave it up due to the distance the cartridges ejected. My son has it now and uses it open choke, with clear pigeon 32gram. That works best for him. I bought a non ejector SBS and using the same cartridge, but 1/4 1/4 couldn't hit anything. A couple of weeks ago I tried Blue Diamond 28gram that I had at the back of a cupboard. Hey ho, hit rate increased. Might be just a coincidence. I know my Miroku isn't keen on the 30gram Lyalvale either but gets on well with 30gram clear pigeon. The point I'm trying to make is like gun fit, everybody's differant and just a slight change can make a huge difference. 1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Buy whatever is local, cheap and constantly available. Use some choke, it makes a cheap cartridge work better. Don't get hung up on either the name of the cartridge or what it promises. More or less what he said, but in more words🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Has someone posted the wrong video? There's not a decent pigeon load among that lot - only those which the makers have dreamed up for their profit margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, wymberley said: Has someone posted the wrong video? There's not a decent pigeon load among that lot - only those which the makers have dreamed up for their profit margins. Don’t be silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, wymberley said: Has someone posted the wrong video? There's not a decent pigeon load among that lot - only those which the makers have dreamed up for their profit margins. That's a strong opinion and probably justified as there are lots of clever and experienced members of this forums ( I'm certainly not one of them but have fired a few cartridges, may I ask; please would tell the group what is your personal preference and what you would buy if they were unavailable? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, mgsontour said: That's a strong opinion and probably justified as there are lots of clever and experienced members of this forums ( I'm certainly not one of them but have fired a few cartridges, may I ask; please would tell the group what is your personal preference and what you would buy if they were unavailable? Cheers Dependent upon the individual locations, a case could be made that there would need to be 3 Top Pigeon Cartridges - for roost, flight and decoy. If you were to look purely at the one activity which accounts for more birds than any other then the top cartridge would relate to decoying. Pattern kills. So where in that display are the 7s and 6&1/2s? Get rid of those as an option and sing the praises of the new be all and end all special de luxe offerings specially designed for pigeon shooting - but which are stocked anyway for other uses - and you've reduced your stock holdings at a stroke. I've had to cut my cloth to suit and whereas previously my answer to your question would have been the latter of the two sizes mentioned, but it is now the former in a 1 ounce flavour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Smokersmith said: What makes you say this? Because it’s for more shot in the cartridge 🤷♂️ You’d expect it to get more shot in the pattern (although I believe it was done on %). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgsontour Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, wymberley said: Dependent upon the individual locations, a case could be made that there would need to be 3 Top Pigeon Cartridges - for roost, flight and decoy. If you were to look purely at the one activity which accounts for more birds than any other then the top cartridge would relate to decoying. Pattern kills. So where in that display are the 7s and 6&1/2s? Get rid of those as an option and sing the praises of the new be all and end all special de luxe offerings specially designed for pigeon shooting - but which are stocked anyway for other uses - and you've reduced your stock holdings at a stroke. I've had to cut my cloth to suit and whereas previously my answer to your question would have been the latter of the two sizes mentioned, but it is now the former in a 1 ounce flavour. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 50 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: although I believe it was done on % Ta-dah ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said: Because it’s for more shot in the cartridge 🤷♂️ You’d expect it to get more shot in the pattern (although I believe it was done on %). The better way to do a pattern check is to use a 'plate' much larger than the required 30" circle, fire the shot and then eyeballing the MPI draw the circle around it. If you look at the close up of the one in the video, there is a distinct left/right bias which would render that particular result suspect as there is no indication of the shot count further to the left and therefore neither a positive indication of where the MPI is. If no correction was made throughout the procedure then that could well be a common trait and the whole exercise rendered pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Smokersmith said: Ta-dah ! Should fire a single projectile into the 30" circle! Boom, 100%! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted March 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, wymberley said: The better way to do a pattern check is to use a 'plate' much larger than the required 30" circle, fire the shot and then eyeballing the MPI draw the circle around it. If you look at the close up of the one in the video, there is a distinct left/right bias which would render that particular result suspect as there is no indication of the shot count further to the left and therefore neither a positive indication of where the MPI is. If no correction was made throughout the procedure then that could well be a common trait and the whole exercise rendered pointless. Seems like bit of a waste of time then really 🤷♂️🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Seems like bit of a waste of time then really 🤷♂️🤔 Ditto. I’m only interested in where a gun prints its pattern ( the rest is irrelevant to me ) so just make a mark and aim at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said: Seems like bit of a waste of time then really 🤷♂️🤔 I'm afraid that I'm in the 'pattern test is worthwhile' camp, but like everything else if it's not done properly and what it's telling you is not understood, then. yep, it can be a waste of time. I may well be out of order, but if I was going to post just one pattern photo out a very large slack handful, I'd have picked one that looked the business - only human nature - and not one that wasn't quite right. Having said that, should you trip over the next video with the penetration, please don't let my somewhat negative response stop you from posting it should you come across it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 10 hours ago, wymberley said: Has someone posted the wrong video? There's not a decent pigeon load among that lot - only those which the makers have dreamed up for their profit margins. Pray tell what is a decent Pigeon Load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 50 minutes ago, 8 shot said: Pray tell what is a decent Pigeon Load. Any one with which you had a good days shooting. You’ll also find that the best choke for the job is the one you had in your gun on that particular day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Neal Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 I appreciate what they're trying to achieve by doing this test, but the title of "best cartridge" will always be disputed. There are so many variables that it's simply impossible to have a "best" that everyone will find best, for reasons already stated above. Part 2 is out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 This isn’t part 2. Its related to the Game Cartridge review they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenholland Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 i was out today tried pigeon h v , clear pigeon still got some old black cases and my home loads of 32g 6/1/2 through a marked full choke on my maxus all killed well so it seems they all performed ok, so it's everybody to there own we have all got our favourites , saying that, i only use pigeon power in one my other auto's 3/4choke and they kill well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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