Afghanistan

[The Verminhater]

On 12/08/2021 at 14:32, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And was anybody really surprised?

 

We really should stop getting involved in other peoples wars, protect our own borders and our own people.

Sonetimes you have to take the fight to the enemy. 

 

On 12/08/2021 at 14:32, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And was anybody really surprised?

 

We really should stop getting involved in other peoples wars, protect our own borders and our own people.

Sonetimes you have to take the fight to the enemy. 

 

[The Verminhater]

1972, U.S withdrawal from Vietnam leaving the people to suffer under a N. Vietnam takeover. History repeating itself. 

The taliban knew (thanks to the world media), troops were pulling out). Taliban were just abiding their time before moving back in).   

Now they can reorganize for more terror attacks on the west, as we're not denying them freedom of movement anymore. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, The Verminhater said:

1972, U.S withdrawal from Vietnam leaving the people to suffer under a N. Vietnam takeover. History repeating itself. 

The taliban knew (thanks to the world media), troops were pulling out). Taliban were just abiding their time before moving back in).   

Now they can reorganize for more terror attacks on the west, as we're not denying them freedom of movement anymore. 

But we can't just leave troops there indefinitely,  the problem is surrounding countries do nothing and like you say the Taliban just wait and then return. 

Unless the plan is let them return,  kill their own then start bombing again??

There is just no reason to be in Afghanistan! Or is there?

[ditchman]

christ what an awful mess...........made more so by the indepth real time media reporting...as it unfolds in all its gory detail...........

please god DO NOT SEND ALEX CRAWFORD THERE..........she is an adrenerlin junky not a journalist 

[Grandalf]

I put the blame fairly and squarely at the door of politicians.   They are the ones who make the decisions to send in the troops.   What they never do is decide what the troops are actually going to do and when, and why, they are going to leave.   All of this should have been decided BEFORE the decision to invade, and invade is what we have done, was made.   The Russians had over one hundred thousand troops in Afghanistan.   Now that army doesn't travel with a press corps and journalists from the worlds media.   They go in mean and hard and get on with the job.   After twenty years they decided the whole effort was just too much, even for them, and left.   A few years later the USA and a few allies do EXACTLY the  same thing with EXACTLY the same, predictable, result.

We could have left after the terrorist bases were bombed out of existence but then came the decision to put boots on the ground - "For the good of the Afghan people".   Good sentiment but it was never going to work. 

The Afghans will do the same to any 'invasive' force that tries to inflict a way of life that they don't want.   Democracy will never work in any country where the majority of the people are illiterate and is ruled by a religious cult that only sees things in black and white.  

The Afghan government has never ruled Afghanistan.   They may have held power in the main cities and lined their own nests with all the trappings of power available to them but they have never controlled the rural areas.   There the mullahs  rule.   As they have always done.   And probably as they always will do.   If you don't like the way things are run then you have to educate and give enticements for change.   Force will never work when you are trying to change someones religion at the point of a bayonet.  

Do you remember the British politician who said the army would not fire a single bullet?   What planet was he on?

My eldest Grandson is now playing a small part in the current fiasco.   Yes I am bitter.   We are a military family and very loyal to the Queen and country but this fiasco has been caused by political stupidy of the worst kind.   

Edited August 14, 2021 by Grandalf
Grammer

[12gauge82]

What gets me is the media bias. I'm no fan of trump, but imagine he pulled the plug like this, we all know he'd be getting the blame for all of Afghanistans problems, Biden does it and hardly a whisper. 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

What gets me is the media bias. I'm no fan of trump, but imagine he pulled the plug like this, we all know he'd be getting the blame for all of Afghanistans problems, Biden does it and hardly a whisper. 

Except in this case one is following the other whipping the public into a frenzy of ill thought out ' Lets pull the troops' rhetoric. 

[12gauge82]

Just now, oowee said:

Except in this case one is following the other whipping the public into a frenzy of ill thought out ' Lets pull the troops' rhetoric. 

Your absolutely right. I really feel for the everyday afgan people out there who just want to exist and particularly anyone out there who is at risk due to helping our forces. Biden has dropped one of the biggest errors in decades. 

[Mungler]

It’s dreadful for so many reasons all made worse by the predictability of what is now happening.

But here’s the kicker, the Afghan population is young and the majority are under 30 years of age and so have very little if not no knowledge of the Taliban pre-2000. Following on, those who have joined up have done so post ‘project freedom’ run by the US.

I guess it’s like the crusades - uncivilised young men seek adventure, violence and infamy. 

As for the US rapid withdrawal, and the thought process behind that, what I can’t get over is the US woke liberal media losing their minds over the likes of Trump but ignoring what’s happening in China and the likes of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

If you a new liberal totally obsessed about not offending Kaitlyn Jenner’s dad mum or whatever (etc) wouldn’t a better focus of your liberal and groovy energies be in doing something about young girls being stoned to death for wanting to go to school (and yes that’s already started again out there). As an aside, that region will never be civilised until their women are freed.

It’s all so very dreadful. 

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

It’s dreadful for so many reasons all made worse by the predictability of what is now happening.

But here’s the kicker, the Afghan population is young and the majority are under 30 years of age and so have very little if not no knowledge of the Taliban pre-2000. Following on, those who have joined up have done so post ‘project freedom’ run by the US.

I guess it’s like the crusades - uncivilised young men seek adventure, violence and infamy. 

As for the US rapid withdrawal, and the thought process behind that, what I can’t get over is the US woke liberal media losing their minds over the likes of Trump but ignoring what’s happening in China and the likes of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

If you a new liberal totally obsessed about not offending Kaitlyn Jenner’s dad mum or whatever (etc) wouldn’t a better focus of your liberal and groovy energies be in doing something about young girls being stoned to death for wanting to go to school (and yes that’s already started again out there). As an aside, that region will never be civilised until their women are freed.

It’s all so very dreadful. 

Off topic but I gained a lot of respect for Jenner.  I heard he/she say that he doesn’t pretend to be a natural born woman because I am not.  I am a man who has always wanted to be a woman and felt like I should be a woman.  Media has decided that I’m a woman now.  

But back on topic I really feel for the people of Afghanistan, mostly the young girls.  

[mel b3]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

It’s dreadful for so many reasons all made worse by the predictability of what is now happening.

But here’s the kicker, the Afghan population is young and the majority are under 30 years of age and so have very little if not no knowledge of the Taliban pre-2000. Following on, those who have joined up have done so post ‘project freedom’ run by the US.

I guess it’s like the crusades - uncivilised young men seek adventure, violence and infamy. 

As for the US rapid withdrawal, and the thought process behind that, what I can’t get over is the US woke liberal media losing their minds over the likes of Trump but ignoring what’s happening in China and the likes of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

If you a new liberal totally obsessed about not offending Kaitlyn Jenner’s dad mum or whatever (etc) wouldn’t a better focus of your liberal and groovy energies be in doing something about young girls being stoned to death for wanting to go to school (and yes that’s already started again out there). As an aside, that region will never be civilised until their women are freed.

It’s all so very dreadful. 

Your last line sums it all up for me 👍.

33 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Off topic but I gained a lot of respect for Jenner.  I heard he/she say that he doesn’t pretend to be a natural born woman because I am not.  I am a man who has always wanted to be a woman and felt like I should be a woman.  Media has decided that I’m a woman now.  

 

Open , honest , factual , and much less freaky 👍.

[Mungler]

46 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Off topic but I gained a lot of respect for Jenner.  I heard he/she say that he doesn’t pretend to be a natural born woman because I am not.  I am a man who has always wanted to be a woman and felt like I should be a woman.  Media has decided that I’m a woman now.  

But back on topic I really feel for the people of Afghanistan, mostly the young girls.  

But that’s it isn’t it.

We’ve only got so much time, energy, outrage etc within us and the liberal media seem intent on corralling views / support / hatred / anger in a specific direction.

As the crow flies Jenner is more miles away, and Los Angeles is far greater distance from us, than the Middle East.

The media get upset and obsessed with a gender pro noun but a young teenage girl in the likes of Afghanistan who wants to go to school or who doesn’t want to marry a 40+ year old man and who gets stoned to death barely gets any mention and fails to establish any wider concern let alone action  in the land of Twitter and on line woke slacktivism.

Mad world eh?

I should finish with the Segway back in, in that had anyone in the free liberal west actually given a **** about anyone in Afghanistan then the media precious and the media controlled Joe Biden would have been forced to acting and keeping troops there - it’s not Vietnam because the fighting was over and the cost of stationing troops and keeping air support relatively modest in the scheme of things (and in the scheme or sorting out a humanitarian disaster and some religious nut job caliphate).

That being said, Trump telling the world 5 years ago that the US was packing up its tents probably killed any chance of a negotiated conclusion with the Taliban - as they just say tight and waited for the US to leave.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Mungler

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Mungler said:

But that’s it isn’t it.

We’ve only got so much time, energy, outrage etc within us and the liberal media seem intent on corralling views / support / hatred / anger in a specific direction.

As the crow flies Jenner is more miles away, and Los Angeles is far greater distance from us, than the Middle East.

The media get upset and obsessed with a gender pro noun but a young teenage girl in the likes of Afghanistan who wants to go to school or who doesn’t want to marry a 40+ year old man and who gets stoned to death barely gets any mention and fails to establish any wider concern let alone action  in the land of Twitter and on line woke slacktivism.

Mad world eh?

I should finish with the Segway back in, in that had anyone in the free liberal west actually given a **** about anyone in Afghanistan then the media precious and the media controlled Joe Biden would have been forced to acting and keeping troops there.

That being said, Trump telling the world 5 years ago that the US was packing up its tents probably killed any chance of a negotiated conclusion with the Taliban - as they just say tight and waited for the US to leave.

 

THey have been waiting 20 years. The only way to keep them out the taliban is to instill a different hope and belief in the population for there to be no room for the Taliban to return. Spreading education, prosperity , hope and belief from such a low base takes far longer then 20 years. 

It's not all down to the US.

What next? Taliban do there worst and China steps in as a new partner for the minerals? Peace of a different format.

[Mungler]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

THey have been waiting 20 years. The only way to keep them out the taliban is to instill a different hope and belief in the population for there to be no room for the Taliban to return. Spreading education, prosperity , hope and belief from such a low base takes far longer then 20 years. 

It's not all down to the US.

What next? Taliban do there worst and China steps in as a new partner for the minerals? Peace of a different format.

Agreed 

[12gauge82]

27 minutes ago, oowee said:

THey have been waiting 20 years. The only way to keep them out the taliban is to instill a different hope and belief in the population for there to be no room for the Taliban to return. Spreading education, prosperity , hope and belief from such a low base takes far longer then 20 years. 

It's not all down to the US.

What next? Taliban do there worst and China steps in as a new partner for the minerals? Peace of a different format.

I think alot of the problem there is the religious extremism, the taliban genuinely believe the slaughter and killing is the right thing to do in the eyes of their god. I don't think you can change that without killing all those who believe it, which under any other circumstance would be called a religious genocide, or maybe a crusade.

It really is an unsolvable problem and I really feel for the people out there who just want to live an ordinary life. 

 

[ditchman]

as mungler says.............there are loads of young people there that have no knowledge of being controlled by Taliban et al...........

they have been brought up with their i-pads...i-phones ....western music love island and all things fun that children should enjoy

very shortly.......if they are found in possesion of anything like this.....or even if they sneeze in the wrong key...it will be a very painful end........

even young children flying homemade plastic kites will be banned

unspeakable horror.........

[harrycatcat1]

25 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 

It really is an unsolvable problem and I really feel for the people out there who just want to live an ordinary life. 

 

This seems to sum it up, all very sad.

[treetree]

A hopeless,  ill-conceived folly from the start. Done on the back of 9/11, carried out by terrorists from Saudia Arabia, funded by money from you know where.

Yes there were training camps, but these could pop up in any of the lawless nations in that or the African region.

I can't imagine how someone who lost a loved one in that operation must now be feeling watching what is happening now.

[Oak]

We have kept this country safe for 20 years so no it was not all in vain unfortunately we had to leave but the sacrifices made by our brave boys and girls  has not been in vain please have respect for those that have helped keep Afghanistan safe for 20 years some who gave there lives and others who live with ptsd and life changing injuries and memories  not only in the armed forces but humanitarian agencies 

[Ricko]

I feel very sorry to all those people who have served over there, including some close friends of mine. It saddens me that so many soldiers were killed in trying to help the Afghan people.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Ricko said:

I feel very sorry to all those people who have served over there, including some close friends of mine. It saddens me that so many soldiers were killed in trying to help the Afghan people.

It’s the sheer waste of life and now lives to come when the Taliban clean house. 

All so so predictable and stupid. 

Oh and what happens when the Taliban raid the stockpile of munitions, hardware, jets etc?

What a mess.

[ditchman]

this is only the beginning i rekon...........there are at least 40 war lords ...who are at the moment all under the same umbrella.............sooner or later they will want their piece of the action   (power)

many of them will have different agenda's...and some will be very friendly to ISIS...et al...........

once the west is out there will be an almost blank on news getting out   it will only get out via refugees telling of unspeakable violence and infighting.........i do fear greatly for their future.........

the chinese wont go in until most of this is cleared up and they can support a winner so they can invest their money in mining ...oil...etc ...safely............

what a mess

[kamyonsofor]

On 12/08/2021 at 14:32, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And was anybody really surprised?

 

We really should stop getting involved in other peoples wars, protect our own borders and our own people.

Very true  words you knew it would kick off now the monies/kickbacks have dried, the Yanks used to meet and give the warlords suitcases full of US dollars for what , the Governments should realise that nothing on this earth will change their way of life  it is in their nature I just hope we are not sucked into sending our troups and resources  back there for what , too many lives were lost on our side  and this government soon accepts the alledged wrong doings from our troops but soon pays out millions to the Afghanies then welcomes them over here with open arms and forget about  our troops and now they are suffering ,mental issues ,disabilities with no help just cast aside, the government should let the Yanks get on  with what they want and not get involved ,it is common knowledge the Yanks are only looking for oil and minerals  .

[Rob85]

3 hours ago, ditchman said:

this is only the beginning i rekon...........there are at least 40 war lords ...who are at the moment all under the same umbrella.............sooner or later they will want their piece of the action   (power)

many of them will have different agenda's...and some will be very friendly to ISIS...et al...........

once the west is out there will be an almost blank on news getting out   it will only get out via refugees telling of unspeakable violence and infighting.........i do fear greatly for their future.........

the chinese wont go in until most of this is cleared up and they can support a winner so they can invest their money in mining ...oil...etc ...safely............

what a mess

This is it in a nutshell really, the BBC is now reporting the government has pretty much collapsed and its possibly only a matter of hours before they are back in power.

Goes to show how pitifully corrupt their military was, you only had to read some of the memoirs from former soldiers who served there to get an idea how useless and uninterested their military and police were. Does anyone really believe that after they are in power they won't seek retribution? I could see it being a kymer rouge style clear out

[ditchman]

.....

Edited August 15, 2021 by ditchman