I/c for driven pheasant

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Could you please tell me how you can tell if you have wounded a bird 

im pretty sure I can tell if I’ve hit it and killed it 

also fairly confident on a leg down or broken wing 

it’s just the one pellet hit that I can’t tell obviously it’s wounded how do I tell 

 

2 hours ago, Stonepark said:

You often can't. If the pellet hits breast muscle it will often cause a flinch but if it goes through any other tissue which doesn't cause a flinch, knock feathers out etc it is often impossible to tell.

As already replied, you can't always tell. The problem is is that with a shotgun you can never be certain of anything - at best you can only play the odds. To put them in your favour, selecting an appropriate cartridge for your intended quarry which you then pattern test to ensure as far as is possible the requisite pellet strike and even distribution at your proposed maximum range. Then having shot with no apparent discomfort to your quarry, it is reasonably safe to assume that you missed.

However, I'm 'reasonably' sure that you already knew this

[keeper96]

6 hours ago, harkom said:

Plastic or Fibre wad ??

Shoot a few patterns with your preferred options beforehand.

Fibre, I never shoot anything else these days!

[keeper96]

https://www.gunsonpegs.com/articles/shooting-talk/s/shooting-talk/the-side-by-side-shooting superstars
 

looking through here it’s very surprising that some of the shots are only using 1/4 and 1/2. Especially lord Percy as I’ve seen north bunker at Alnwick and those birds are spectacular! 
 

there’s even one gun who shoots true cylinder! 

[Centrepin]

10 hours ago, keeper96 said:

https://www.gunsonpegs.com/articles/shooting-talk/s/shooting-talk/the-side-by-side-shooting superstars
 

looking through here it’s very surprising that some of the shots are only using 1/4 and 1/2. Especially lord Percy as I’ve seen north bunker at Alnwick and those birds are spectacular! 
 

there’s even one gun who shoots true cylinder! 

The interesting thing I picked up on from that article, so many mentioned feet positioning, line of the bird and swing rather than cartridge or choke. Which unless I'm mistaken is much what most regular shooters do, clays or game.

So much for the theoretical 🥕 choke and 🍄 cartridge at 🍭 range equals 🍾🍻🤣 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Is that a recipe in code?  

[Centrepin]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Is that a recipe in code?  

It's for those that read page after page of theory instead of putting lead in the air. They'll spend days decoding it then think it's a conspiracy 🤔 and go back to changing chokes and cartridges on every stand/drive to give them that extra 0.00001% chance.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

It's for those that read page after page of theory instead of putting lead in the air. They'll spend days decoding it then think it's a conspiracy 🤔 and go back to changing chokes and cartridges on every stand/drive to give them that extra 0.00001% chance.

I see!  

My favourite are the ever-changers that come off one stand and change chokes before they have got to the next and seen what the targets are!  

[Centrepin]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I see!  

My favourite are the ever-changers that come off one stand and change chokes before they have got to the next and seen what the targets are!  

Yup, I always seem to get stuck behind one, and he carefully explains to his hangers on how half choke on this stand will work. Asks to see a pair regardless of his place in the queue, promptly misses and tells his hangers on the next guy is just lucky using open and open.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Centrepin said:

Yup, I always seem to get stuck behind one, and he carefully explains to his hangers on how half choke on this stand will work. Asks to see a pair regardless of his place in the queue, promptly misses and tells his hangers on the next guy is just lucky using open and open.

😂 Sounds soooo familiar! 

[JDog]

How can the experts on PW help you when there is such disparity between the gun, choke, weight of cartridge and shot size choice of the really experienced game shots?

As Bungle the Bear says just use what you are used to.

[Bungle The Bear]

8 hours ago, Centrepin said:

The interesting thing I picked up on from that article, so many mentioned feet positioning, line of the bird and swing rather than cartridge or choke. Which unless I'm mistaken is much what most regular shooters do, clays or game.

So much for the theoretical 🥕 choke and 🍄 cartridge at 🍭 range equals 🍾🍻🤣 

Spot on

[Smokersmith]

On 29/10/2021 at 18:52, keeper96 said:

i’ve been invited to a good day up in Scotland later in the year where the majority of drives show 40yd+ birds. 

Have you been yet?

[Walker570]

On 01/11/2021 at 08:55, Centrepin said:

It's for those that read page after page of theory instead of putting lead in the air. They'll spend days decoding it then think it's a conspiracy 🤔 and go back to changing chokes and cartridges on every stand/drive to give them that extra 0.00001% chance.

Brilliantly put.    If you need to know these things then pin a couple of lengths of old wall paper or similar to a ply sheet and then measure accurately 40yrds with a tape  NOT strides, then fire s hot with the choke you feel is the one you need and go check the pattern.  Repeat this until you have a 30 inch even patter and then glue the chokes in place.

BUT remember at 20 yrds the pattern will only be 15 inches or thereabouts so really it is then up to you to do the job.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Walker570

[enfieldspares]

Has the OP been yet? If not....this:

Pattern fails before penetration. That's fact. All my game guns are bored I/C and I/C in BOTH barrels. Best game shot I ever saw used a Purdey bore TRUE right, IMPROVED left and used only Hull 1 ounce #7.

Havind stated that I'll throw this in to the discussion. Ask if the shoot are OK with plaswads as a plastic wad is said to raise the gun by one degree of choke. So I/C with a plaswad will pattern at 1/4.

Also unless you've actually had the gun shot at a pattern plate that nominal I/C may be just that. Modern cartridges with good consistent in size and roundness lead shot will pattern tighter than the nominal borings will suggest. 

Copper plated shot is said...apparently...to also raise a gun by one degree of choke. And if you can get them Hull do a 5 1/2 and a 6 1/2 in game cartridges. The old Winchester GB were 6 1/2 and were a good cartridge.

The issue I'd have with #5 is that it has too many gaps for "dead in the air" shooting of woodcock and other birds smaller than a pheasant. It is a poor size as...as said...pattern fails before penetration!

Edited December 18, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Dave at kelton]

On 31/10/2021 at 08:06, Stonepark said:

You often can't. If the pellet hits breast muscle it will often cause a flinch but if it goes through any other tissue which doesn't cause a flinch, knock feathers out etc it is often impossible to tell.

Agreed and ever harder for the gun who is focusing on the shot. Stood behind picking up and to the side of a gun last week. He hit eleven birds which as pickers up we clearly saw but he thought he missed every one of them.

[Blackpowder]

1 hour ago, Dave at kelton said:

Agreed and ever harder for the gun who is focusing on the shot. Stood behind picking up and to the side of a gun last week. He hit eleven birds which as pickers up we clearly saw but he thought he missed every one of them.

Pickers up see what the Gun does not.

Blackpowder

 

[keeper96]

18 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

Have you been yet?

Yes! I was there 2 weekends ago and Had a bit of a nightmare! 
 

decided to err on the side of caution and took up my other sbs, well the trigger guard snapped where the action and stock meet so that ended up back in the car after 1 drive. Then the spare I used was about 3” too short on the second drive and by the time I’d sourced some black tape and robbed the butt pad from the other gun for the afternoon I was on the quiet pegs. 
 

wish I’d just stuck with what I know as after seeing the birds There was nothing I saw that I thought would have been out of range compared to what I usually shoot. 
 

the main difference was instead of being a drive of average birds with occasional higher birds, the majority of birds in the drives where what would be the good stuff at home with some crackers thrown in for good measure. 
 

so basically… stick by your guns! (Pun intended) 

[Smokersmith]

All part of the journey … hopefully you’ll get another go soon.

[Walker570]

11 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Agreed and ever harder for the gun who is focusing on the shot. Stood behind picking up and to the side of a gun last week. He hit eleven birds which as pickers up we clearly saw but he thought he missed every one of them.

I did the same last week on three partridge overhead at 30yrds BUT as reported on here they were doing close to 100mph with a 40-50mph tail wind and din't fold until some twenty yards behind me.

Enfield spares gives good advie as well. As I said previously check your patterns then you know if it your fault. I add to that find a cartridge that does the job and stick with it.  I remember when Impax 7s where all the rage and birds still fell out of the sky.

On edit.... I always have a chat with any pickers behind me and point out birds I know are down. There is a fashion going now where guns walk around picking birds.  I do not because the pickers up wouldn't be there if they didn't enjoy working their dogs (been there done that) and then easy for a bird to be hand picked then waste  a pickers time trying to find it.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Walker570

[Walker570]

....added to my previous.... it is also nice and good manners to thank ALL of the staff before you leave. A genuine THANK YOU, THANK YOU to them all goes a long way.

[Dave at kelton]

12 hours ago, Walker570 said:

....added to my previous.... it is also nice and good manners to thank ALL of the staff before you leave. A genuine THANK YOU, THANK YOU to them all goes a long way.

Absolutely spot on!! I even fixed a gun on a drive, not one of a pair, shell behind the ejector and he just walked away at the end of the drive. Not even a nod of thanks; unbelievable.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Dave at kelton
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