What's up with People !!!!! 3 Die and 1 in intensive care, Paddle Boarding on a river in in South Wales after heavy rain,

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I’ve done a bit of swimming falling in from my canoe in cold water, sometimes with a buoyancy aid sometimes with a life jacket. The difference is significant, and that was without a strong current. The cold water shock with a PFD and how far under you go before coming back up and having to fight upright, with a life jacket you bob up and ok it is hard to swim but it is very easy to float. No way I would go in late October to a river in spate, over a weir with just a buoyancy aid! 

I paddled most of Europe and all of UK in the worst of conditions, seeking out the hardest spate rivers. BA is the only way to go. Training, and kit go a long way but experience is essential. 

[henry d]

1 hour ago, WalkedUp said:

You have added the “inflatable” aspect, the vast majority of life jackets are made from the same material as PFDs, it is only the very fancy that inflate automatically. 

All wearing life jackets!

Nope, a pfd does not inflate, a life jacket does. The three in the rib are wearing pfds the three onshore are wearing life jackets. The reason is that the guys in the rib are wearing dry suit which absorb little water, the guys onshore are wearing fire gear, which does absorb water. In a water rescue situation most would be wearing dry suit or similar but those who are not (swift) water trained but still assigned to the incident would have to wear some form of safety gear and the life jacket is the only choice.

I'm swift water trained and also have a kayak that I use when fishing the north sea, and also fish from a boat regularly, for the first I wore a pfd unless onshore when I used a life jacket, the second I only use a pfd, finally I use a life jacket as it is compact and wearing clothing that absorbs water (and therefore makes me heavier).

[WalkedUp]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

I paddled most of Europe and all of UK in the worst of conditions, seeking out the hardest spate rivers. BA is the only way to go. Training, and kit go a long way but experience is essential. 

Fair enough, I respect the greater knowledge 👍

In my experience with limited expertise of cold water submersion a life jacket is far superior. 

1 minute ago, henry d said:

Nope, a pfd does not inflate, a life jacket does. The three in the rib are wearing pfds the three onshore are wearing life jackets.

Incorrect according to the British Standards and HSE...

 https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais1.pdf

Look at the high level of buoyancy, crotch straps and head support a life jacket has compared to the simple buoyancy of a PFD. 

[henry d]

18 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I’ve done a bit of swimming falling in from my canoe in cold water, sometimes with a buoyancy aid sometimes with a life jacket. The difference is significant, and that was without a strong current. The cold water shock with a PFD and how far under you go before coming back up and having to fight upright, with a life jacket you bob up and ok it is hard to swim but it is very easy to float. No way I would go in late October to a river in spate, over a weir with just a buoyancy aid! 

Can't access my photos ATM but we have been in the Tay and Bra'an in January and February in all conditions and swam successfully, as I said it is to do with being properly dressed, pfd and dry suit (wet suit), life jacket and absorbent clothing

[WalkedUp]

https://rnli.org/-/media/rnli/downloads/rnli-guide-to-lifejackets-and-buoyancy-aids.pdf

I acknowledge my lack of experience compared to Henry’s and Oowee’s, but nothing stated thus far would have me compromise on safety on that river for extra comfort.

[henry d]

You are struggling now the first link says; "This information sheet aims to improve safety for

activities on inland or inshore waters at establishments

which are covered by the Health and Safety at Work

etc Act 1974 (HSW Act) and where the Health and

Safety Executive (HSE) is the enforcing authority.

These include fish farms, floating cage units, mussel

rafts, farm or estate fisheries and similar activities."

So that is not relevant, the second I have no idea what you are saying unless you are trying to say the final page is how any water user should choose a life jacket?

As I say I am swift water trained by the Scottish fire and rescue service, I use a kayak regularly (formerly a canoe) and less regularly an 18' leisure/fishing boat... and 12 years in the royal navy.

[WalkedUp]

“Struggling”? Henry, simple question - why does everything with you on here have to become a silly competition rather than ever engaging in a constructive dialogue?

I said I appreciate you are more experienced in this area, but information was posted that was factually incorrect (that lifejackets are always inflatable). I posted the link to the HSE as it contains the British Standard references for the various flotation devices, members would well rewarded for reviewing this rather than be distracted by inane comments upon what the HSE’s role is.

The second link is a brief explanation of the various floatation devices available so members visually identify them, which you failed to do from the picture given.

I am happy to learn about the various safety pros and cons of buoyancy aids versus lifejackets for whitewater work and so would be delighted to learn from yours and others knowledge if the conversation moves beyond “I survived X just using Y” and becomes based upon some evidence and fact. 

[Jonty]

The key difference between a life jacket and a PFD is that one is intended for people who aim to be near water but don’t intend to be in the water and those who intend to, and are prepared to be in the water.  The pictures here are from some swift water training exercises my rescue team have taken part in recently.  All of the swimmers wear PFDs because they are the industry standard recognised best equipment for the task.  But, they are also in dry suits, prepared for the task in hand, very well trained for all scenarios, and have the support of several other very well trained team mates.  
 

Outside of a rescue environment, if I was partaking in a water sport and had wetsuit/dry suit/etc, I would always opt for a PFD as I’m prepared and expecting that a swim may be on the cards but when I take a boat out on my local trout tarn in my normal clothes and the only chance of me going in the water would be as a result of something unintentional, then I wear a life jacket.  

generically, yes, a life jacket is more buoyant and will naturally keep your head out of the water which is great for an unexpected drenching (especially where there is a chance of injury) but in certain circumstances such as fast flowing water, a PFD giving you chance to roll onto your front and swim directionally can be more beneficial.  Both have their place and both do their job very well.

[WalkedUp]

6 hours ago, Jonty said:

The key difference between a life jacket and a PFD is that one is intended for people who aim to be near water but don’t intend to be in the water and those who intend to, and are prepared to be in the water.  The pictures here are from some swift water training exercises my rescue team have taken part in recently.  All of the swimmers wear PFDs because they are the industry standard recognised best equipment for the task.  But, they are also in dry suits, prepared for the task in hand, very well trained for all scenarios, and have the support of several other very well trained team mates.  
 

Outside of a rescue environment, if I was partaking in a water sport and had wetsuit/dry suit/etc, I would always opt for a PFD as I’m prepared and expecting that a swim may be on the cards but when I take a boat out on my local trout tarn in my normal clothes and the only chance of me going in the water would be as a result of something unintentional, then I wear a life jacket.  

generically, yes, a life jacket is more buoyant and will naturally keep your head out of the water which is great for an unexpected drenching (especially where there is a chance of injury) but in certain circumstances such as fast flowing water, a PFD giving you chance to roll onto your front and swim directionally can be more beneficial.  Both have their place and both do their job very well.

Thanks Jonty, a clear explanation 👍

[loriusgarrulus]

10 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

You have added the “inflatable” aspect, the vast majority of life jackets are made from the same material as PFDs, it is only the very fancy that inflate automatically. 

All wearing life jackets!

I have a Crewe automatic life jacket complete with flashing automatic light. It was only £55 from the local chandlers. I use it for sea fishing and fly fishing. The automatic feature is fairly standard now. I changed the arming mechanism last year as they do have a lifespan.

[WalkedUp]

22 minutes ago, loriusgarrulus said:

I have a Crewe automatic life jacket complete with flashing automatic light. It was only £55 from the local chandlers. I use it for sea fishing and fly fishing. The automatic feature is fairly standard now. I changed the arming mechanism last year as they do have a lifespan.

That is a bargain prices have certainly come down, I do not find the solid 100N solid ones particularly obtrusive and they are a little cheaper still and good for situations when they are relatively frequently required:

https://tornadolifejackets.com/products/100n-lifejackets-adult?variant=37352169537704&currency=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7b7qu5L58wIVwuJ3Ch205gPjEAQYASABEgIOx_D_BwE

[team tractor]

My mate teaches paddle board and I know they use them on white water . 
unfortunately they didn’t get away with it this time . We all do silly things .

[Fisheruk]

7 hours ago, team tractor said:

My mate teaches paddle board and I know they use them on white water . 
unfortunately they didn’t get away with it this time . We all do silly things .

Some only once 😳

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 31/10/2021 at 17:44, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, As above, a full rescue had to be undertaken , Same as people out Hill Climbing and don't check the weather, or worse out in their Sunday best, people out sea fishing and don't check the weather or tides, I see paddle boarders on the Thames , nice in the summer but on a spate river in late October 🤔

Hello, there's an update, police charge a woman ? Not many details 

[Vince Green]

They seem to be constantly having to rescue paddle boarders down here in Cornwall. Fortunately very few fatalities but they just haven't got a first clue about tides etc.

The sea is not the same as a lake

I don't know what you could do to prevent it

 

[Newbie to this]

38 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I don't know what you could do to prevent it

Charge people for their rescue?

[islandgun]

4 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, there's an update, police charge a woman ? Not many details 

I saw that can only guess she was running some sort of course

[oldypigeonpopper]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

I saw that can only guess she was running some sort of course

That's what I thought, 

[treetree]

On 31/10/2021 at 22:28, Houseplant said:

Writing from a country with a huge accidental death rate, I've come around to the Kiwi way of thinking. Adults can make their own choices 

Apart from where covid is concerned

[Scully]

23 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Charge people for their rescue?

I’m not too sure how you’d apply that to the deceased.

It’s not what the rescue services want, and you’d have to apply it to road accidents also in certain circumstances. 

[Houseplant]

5 hours ago, treetree said:

Apart from where covid is concerned

Haha! Very true. We have lost hundreds of times more people on the road than through COVID and everyone just shrugs their collective shoulders and says **** happens. 

[Jonty]

On 07/11/2021 at 11:04, Scully said:

It’s not what the rescue services want, and you’d have to apply it to road accidents also in certain circumstances. 

100% agree