Salary v Bonus

[discobob]

So, I have the offer of a new job. They have offered me what I am on roughly at my current job with the on call allowance. Now, I haven’t had a pay rise for 3 years (no one has) but call outs and OT do give me a bump of about 10-15%. 
I have tried to get an increase on the salary but they have come back with they have a 10% bonus based on personal performance- no company performance element

so, there would be no on-call - only travel to the office 1 day a week (whereas I start back at 3 days next week ☹️) saving @£25-30 per week on that as well as 5 hours travel per week

So what are peoples thoughts on that - should I stay where I am - where I feel we won’t be getting a pay rise again this year - to move to where I would be elligable for this years pay rises?

I know people will think what the hell - but previous to this I was self employed and my head is screwed up on it

[Agriv8]

Disco bob 

I think you have to follow your gut the grass can always look greener on the other side. But if you didn’t take it would you feel p’d of stopping in your current job.

I know it’s a leap of faith but The savings on travel in money and stress seem to be an added bonus !

something’s made you apply and go through interviews so I suspect your just getting jittery about the final decision.

have you talked to staff at new spot so they seem happy ?

Agriv8

[WalkedUp]

If your new job and current job offer the same pay I would suggest that’s the going rate. Keep looking but the job with protected status where you know you fit in well is the safe choice given the only marginal benefit. 

[Lloyd90]

Marginal? 

Over £1500 a year saved in travel costs and 5 hours a week more of your own time. 

 

What is the base salary? If the 10% bump is more than £1500 then obviously your no financially better off by leaving, apart from the fact you get the 5+ hours off work, plus however many hours of overtime. 

[Mice!]

If your looking there must be a reason?

The new job is going to pay the same without the need for call outs, but is there still O/T available?

A bonus is just that, it's not a guarantee, so could you manage without the 10% or only getting say 2%

[discobob]

No overtime- flat salary - need to see what the hours are. I do a 35 hour week for my current employer 

[sam triple]

4 hours ago, discobob said:

No overtime- flat salary - need to see what the hours are. I do a 35 hour week for my current employer 

Part time then 😂 , first thing you should of done after finding out about pay is the hours, if your going to working more from home is there a government hand out you can apply for 

Edited January 29, 2022 by sam triple

[WalkedUp]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Marginal? 

Over £1500 a year saved in travel costs and 5 hours a week more of your own time. 

 

What is the base salary? If the 10% bump is more than £1500 then obviously your no financially better off by leaving, apart from the fact you get the 5+ hours off work, plus however many hours of overtime. 

True, it depends what the base salary is to determine if it is substantial. But  WFH arrangements seems to be so variable that I wouldn’t start banking on any saving through that. 

[Dave at kelton]

Difficult to advise but here are a few thoughts.

unless you have been head hunted the fact that you have gone this far indicates dissatisfaction which will get worse

time spent not commuting is priceless as it is about quality of life not just the cost saving 

bonuses don’t pay mortgages and firms have a habit of finding a way not to pay them

if you stay put will you worry about what could have been further destabilising your current position

Future salary increases need to be contracted or they can’t  be taken away

i have worked at home for over five years apart from the odd four hour commute into London and my life has improved immeasurably

how secure are the two employers and hence your job.

Hope these thoughts help and good luck!

[mel b3]

I've never liked any work that relies on bonus , because it's too easy for an employer not to pay it.

Moving jobs can be quite stressful , it's never easy moving from something you know ( even if you don't like it), and stepping into the unknown.

 

[JohnfromUK]

Unless the difference in ££ is critical ........... go for the job that you will enjoy most every time.

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Difficult to advise but here are a few thoughts.

unless you have been head hunted the fact that you have gone this far indicates dissatisfaction which will get worse

time spent not commuting is priceless as it is about quality of life not just the cost saving 

bonuses don’t pay mortgages and firms have a habit of finding a way not to pay them

if you stay put will you worry about what could have been further destabilising your current position

Future salary increases need to be contracted or they can’t  be taken away

i have worked at home for over five years apart from the odd four hour commute into London and my life has improved immeasurably

how secure are the two employers and hence your job.

Hope these thoughts help and good luck!

All very good advice,  generally once I'm looking I'm going. 

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

I've never liked any work that relies on bonus , because it's too easy for an employer not to pay it.

Moving jobs can be quite stressful , it's never easy moving from something you know ( even if you don't like it), and stepping into the unknown.

 

I've moved jobs so many times over the years it's not real, but I've worked perm and contract jobs, I don't see it as stressful at all, if I'm looking for something new it's because I'm not happy where I am, often because of a change in shifts, money,  conditions. 

I agree about bonuses though, there never guaranteed but some might see them as being expected. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Some good points raised so far.

As others have said, you started this by looking, so you must have been unhappy enough to look.

[mel b3]

33 minutes ago, Mice! said:

All very good advice,  generally once I'm looking I'm going. 

I've moved jobs so many times over the years it's not real, but I've worked perm and contract jobs, I don't see it as stressful at all, if I'm looking for something new it's because I'm not happy where I am, often because of a change in shifts, money,  conditions. 

I agree about bonuses though, there never guaranteed but some might see them as being expected. 

Funny you should say that , because I have a few mates that move from job to job , or contract to contract . They sometimes have day , weeks , or even months , out of work between jobs or contracts , and it doesn't worry them in the slightest . If it was me , I'd be freaking out . It's most probably due to me growing up in a skint household,  with red letters , gas being cut off , and barely enough food to go around . Its left me scared to death of ever being out of work.

[Bigbob]

Your call out your transport or you get a van . All our tradesmen used to fight to get a van home for call outs ,  new management came in no vans to be taken home .It was bad enough they used to give us 4 hours to get a plumber , Electrian or joiner it made it worse Also theres tax rebates on transport 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

Funny you should say that , because I have a few mates that move from job to job , or contract to contract . They sometimes have day , weeks , or even months , out of work between jobs or contracts , and it doesn't worry them in the slightest . If it was me , I'd be freaking out . It's most probably due to me growing up in a skint household,  with red letters , gas being cut off , and barely enough food to go around . Its left me scared to death of ever being out of work.

Contracting takes some getting used to, and you have to be clever saving your money for the times you are out of work. 

I did once go a couple of months not working,  savings going down fast so you take what's available then I was getting twitchy.

 

[Lloyd90]

10 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

True, it depends what the base salary is to determine if it is substantial. But  WFH arrangements seems to be so variable that I wouldn’t start banking on any saving through that. 

 

My wife (to be) is now saving over £200+ a month in travel (fuel) and her company are happy as she gets loads more done at home as she isn't constantly being bothered by people. 

[WalkedUp]

41 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

My wife (to be) is now saving over £200+ a month in travel (fuel) and her company are happy as she gets loads more done at home as she isn't constantly being bothered by people. 

Definitely a good saving, but again I wouldn’t bank on the income in any long term planning. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by WalkedUp

[Lsto]

If the money looks roughly the same then look at the T+C's. As you said you will get more free time but is £30 a week really going to change your life in the grand scheme of things?

I'm currently in a similar situation, I have been at my current position for 16 years, I have been offered the same job with a new company at about 45 quid a week more and 15 mins closer to home. But the sick pay is not as good and I will lose 6 days holiday a year. They are coming back to me Monday with a counter offer but at the moment I value the days off with my young family more than 45 a week, plus last year my son was in and out of hospital and my wife has been long term sick so the sick pay was a godsend while I was caring for them. It depends what you value in life, at the moment I'll be staying at my current employer unless this new one can match my T+C's, money is not everything but you only get 24 hours in a day.

[Cosmicblue]

On 28/01/2022 at 21:39, discobob said:

So, I have the offer of a new job. They have offered me what I am on roughly at my current job with the on call allowance. Now, I haven’t had a pay rise for 3 years (no one has) but call outs and OT do give me a bump of about 10-15%. 
I have tried to get an increase on the salary but they have come back with they have a 10% bonus based on personal performance- no company performance element

so, there would be no on-call - only travel to the office 1 day a week (whereas I start back at 3 days next week ☹️) saving @£25-30 per week on that as well as 5 hours travel per week

So what are peoples thoughts on that - should I stay where I am - where I feel we won’t be getting a pay rise again this year - to move to where I would be elligable for this years pay rises?

I know people will think what the hell - but previous to this I was self employed and my head is screwed up on it

It's tricky moving jobs, I'm 64 now and have a CV that ought to come on a pair of wooden rollers.🤨

There is a risk when you stay in a job too long that you become part of the furniture, taken for granted and not perhaps perceived as a 'valuable asset'.  If you leave your current job its likely that your employer will find it difficult to fill your position as there are around 1.5m unfilled vacancies in the UK - getting skilled/experienced staff is a proverbial 'mare at the moment.   

The bit that's hidden in job moves is that in the current job you fully understand all the politics/relationships/who can be trusted/who is a complete idiot etc.  For the new job you probably know none of this and that's a big risk.  People that seem great in interviews can turn out to be total drongos when you have to work with them - it's worth checking out the new company on 'Glassdoor' and seeing what current and past employees think of the place too.

I read the bit about getting a Personal Performance bonus - that's for the new job?    A bonus that's paid on 'Personal Performance' needs a definition, I get a bonus in my job that's partly based on Personal Performance on jointly agreed annual objectives - you need that too.   Some companies try for the 'discretionary' or 'if the customers love you' kind of thing and that's too fluffy. 

Office vs WFH.   WFH seems great (I've been doing it for 24 years+), however it is isolating too, you miss out on stuff and when the company needs to shed people the remote workers tend to get binned 1st because 'out of sight/out of mind'.

....however there does come a time when you need to move on, move for the right job, not just any job - a job that pays the same money or near enough isn't viable in the current job market.  Get yourself on LinkedIn (actually owned by Microsoft) and its free to use, I get a job enquiry a day and I haven't been actively looking for over 6 years - message me privately for details and you can have a look at my profile there.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Cosmicblue

[discobob]

@Cosmicblue I have been on linked in for years  I think since about 2003/4 and this is where this job came through. I too have a CV that takes a forest to print out.

@LstoI am not doing anything until I have gone through the small print of the contract and the employees handbook

@Mice! @mel b3I was a contractor for 17 years prior to this job - and I was well set up - I once went over 3 months without work - got loads of jobs done at home etc.. But IR35 in the private sector is what caused me to jump permanent - now the wife likes the stability as I have mooted about going contracting again over the past 6 months. 

I actually put my notice in 6 months ago due to the environment (lots of managers/PM's who fancy themselves as bullies) but we got a new boss and he promised changes and asked me to stay. There have been changes but not in the right way which have in some ways demoted me - he has seen my job title and put me in a box - whereas with the previous boss (there was org changes and everything) he knew I was much more than my role and gave work correspondingly, and did talk repeatedly about changing my role - but talk is cheap at the end of the day.

Well, the decision is that I am going to go for the new job - subject to contract and T&C'S - I am peeved off where I am and I don't foresee any change coming for the better.

Being a former contractor, the walking into new places isn't an issue - and SWMBO has agreed that if it doesn't work out I will just jump back to contracting. 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

Well, the decision is that I am going to go for the new job - subject to contract and T&C'S - I am peeved off where I am and I don't foresee any change coming for the better.

Being a former contractor, the walking into new places isn't an issue - and SWMBO has agreed that if it doesn't work out I will just jump back to contracting. 

Good luck, it could force your current employers hand, or just give you a fresh start. I think once you know you can work perm or contract it gives you a certain freedom,  although like you say the IR35 changes have made things less rosey .

[Cosmicblue]

Good luck Discobob!  The existing firm might  counter-offer.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Cosmicblue

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, discobob said:

@Cosmicblue I have been on linked in for years  I think since about 2003/4 and this is where this job came through. I too have a CV that takes a forest to print out.

@LstoI am not doing anything until I have gone through the small print of the contract and the employees handbook

@Mice! @mel b3I was a contractor for 17 years prior to this job - and I was well set up - I once went over 3 months without work - got loads of jobs done at home etc.. But IR35 in the private sector is what caused me to jump permanent - now the wife likes the stability as I have mooted about going contracting again over the past 6 months. 

I actually put my notice in 6 months ago due to the environment (lots of managers/PM's who fancy themselves as bullies) but we got a new boss and he promised changes and asked me to stay. There have been changes but not in the right way which have in some ways demoted me - he has seen my job title and put me in a box - whereas with the previous boss (there was org changes and everything) he knew I was much more than my role and gave work correspondingly, and did talk repeatedly about changing my role - but talk is cheap at the end of the day.

Well, the decision is that I am going to go for the new job - subject to contract and T&C'S - I am peeved off where I am and I don't foresee any change coming for the better.

Being a former contractor, the walking into new places isn't an issue - and SWMBO has agreed that if it doesn't work out I will just jump back to contracting. 

Good luck with it Bob,  I really hope that it works out for you mate 👍. 

[discobob]

17 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Good luck, it could force your current employers hand, or just give you a fresh start. I think once you know you can work perm or contract it gives you a certain freedom,  although like you say the IR35 changes have made things less rosey .

I much preferred contracting - although the travel could be a bug bear - I nearly left here coming up to 3 years ago when I got a job offer from Microsoft - which fell through trying to clarify some points around office and car allowance. That was a shame. From looking at the IR35 now it is in the private sector I am not seeing too much being Inside IR35 but would have to employ experts to review contracts/conditions at a couple of hundred pounds a pop

4 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Good luck Discobob!  The existing firm might  counter-offer.

Cheers - although any counter wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on

1 minute ago, mel b3 said:

Good luck with it Bob,  I really hope that it works out for you mate 👍. 

Thanks Mel