Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Gordon R]

Quote

But somehow nobody wants Shamima Begum back. Seems pretty racist to me.

In a thread containing varied opinion, this total drivel gets dropped in. Absolute bottom of the barrel.

[London Best]

We definitely should allow Shemima Bigbum back, and then hang her for treason.

[mchughcb]

34 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

In a thread containing varied opinion, this total drivel gets dropped in. Absolute bottom of the barrel.

Well Mungler mentions lord Haw Haw and he was executed.

[Gordon R]

mchughcb - Thank you for the view from the bottom of the barrel. Incisive as usual - NOT. 

P.S. Lord Haw Haw - upper case. Mungler was not executed. Freebie.

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

Aside from giving the bully all that he wants (and at the same time the world might as well throw in Finland and Poland) Russia has always had a big stock of nukes, AK47’s and cannon fodder, it’s just that Vlad has painted himself into a corner and it’s go big or go home time.

He remains a master tactician at all times of course 🙄

Apart from the playground chatter of calling people bullies, or using the rather overused 'master tactician' thing , why not put some useful input into the debate.
1. If you were Sauron/dark lord / Putin , what would you do ? To nuke or not to nuke , that is the question ?
Youve been defeated by a an army of militia using Mavic drones , you are certifiably dinky dau , why would you not nuke the enemy , why would you not just push the button full stop, whats there to lose , the west has made it clear theyre out to get you , and your precious motherland.
Paint the picture of what you are dealing with, then imagine the consequences of their humiliation.

2. What would you do if you were  Big Z/Zambo/ Zelensky , those steroids have turned a mild mannered Jewish comedian into a NATO powered killing machine , with 5 ft of muscle and a action hero voice, his future roles in Hollywood are guaranteed.
Is he ready to let his cities get nuked, youre damned right he is, as long as he takes a few Russians with him at the same time.
How would YOU comrade Mungler avert the threat of nukes being used on your defenceless citizens ?

 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

We definitely should allow Shemima Bigbum back, and then hang her for treason.

Unfortunately, this country's biggest traitor, had the death penalty removed from the treason offence.

[ditchman]

48 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Unfortunately, this country's biggest traitor, had the death penalty removed from the treason offence.

as i understand it.....the death sentence was removed from the treason act ...."when not in a state of war"........so is it the case that the death sentence remains when we are in an active state of war ?.......

it is a well known fact that Macron publicaly announced " that we have declared war on ISIS".........and that fact was not contested by any EU members or other..........

soooooo..........is it possible Shamina Begbum is in danger of being executed for treason...?...as we are still in a state of war with ISIS ?.........

all tricky stuff eh 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, ditchman said:

soooooo..........is it possible Shamina Begbum is in danger of being executed for treason...?...as we are still in a state of war with ISIS ?.........

About as much chance of that happening as me winning the Euromillions.

Would make an interesting debate point on Newsnight though 😆

[mchughcb]

Just another day hunting. No time for horse riding.

So Putin stands for hunting with Russian made rifles and wears a Christian cross. 

Obviously insane.

[ShootingEgg]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

Aside from giving the bully all that he wants (and at the same time the world might as well throw in Finland and Poland) Russia has always had a big stock of nukes, AK47’s and cannon fodder, it’s just that Vlad has painted himself into a corner and it’s go big or go home time.

He remains a master tactician at all times of course

As I said it's a pretty mad but possible threat. But let's hope it's an empty one... But the blokes possibly so far unhinged now anything goes ... He is happy to put inexperienced men in the firing line .... So who knows what he is really capable of doing. No MSM know what is going on in his head, they just write what they want us to read ..

[Kev1gun]

DO you suppose the sane people around him, are just going to let him press the button or are they all insane.

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, Kev1gun said:

DO you suppose the sane people around him, are just going to let him press the button or are they all insane.

Most dictators surround themselves with 'yes men'.  They don't like being told no.  People who do it have a habit of falling out of high windows.

[Stonepark]

5 hours ago, islandgun said:

Im getting suspicious of the retreats of russian military, hope hes not preparing for the big bang !

Russia is consolidating it's lines in preparation for future manoeuvres.

To date Russian soldiers have been out numbered some 4 to 5 to 1 compared to Ukranian soldiers but have had roughly 5 times the artillery and air support and been able to take and hold ground because of this but have been thinly spread and lose some ground when Ukraine uses higher numbers where the line is thin.

Russia has just mobilised 300k reservists (both true reservists and recently retired soldiers) and is middle of arming them and giving them refresher training, which will take say 6 weeks. Now whether they are used or allowed to take over other Russian troops positions elsewhere to free them up doesn't really matter.

Come the end of the mud season and start of the winter freeze, Russia will then have the ability to put 300k additional soldiers in position to then conduct an offensive operation with almost equal numbers of soldiers to Ukraine with the same 5 times the associated artillery and air support.

The western analysts know it is coming but have nothing they can give Ukraine that would help and once started, Russia's new boundaries are going to be enforced and protected.

The clue will be all the heavy armour and munitions rolling West by train to their forward assembly areas in preparation for the soldiers arrival and there has according to UK military intelligence been an uptick in the last few days of just such movement inside Russia.
 

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Apart from the playground chatter of calling people bullies, or using the rather overused 'master tactician' thing , why not put some useful input into the debate.
1. If you were Sauron/dark lord / Putin , what would you do ? To nuke or not to nuke , that is the question ?
Youve been defeated by a an army of militia using Mavic drones , you are certifiably dinky dau , why would you not nuke the enemy , why would you not just push the button full stop, whats there to lose , the west has made it clear theyre out to get you , and your precious motherland.
Paint the picture of what you are dealing with, then imagine the consequences of their humiliation.

2. What would you do if you were  Big Z/Zambo/ Zelensky , those steroids have turned a mild mannered Jewish comedian into a NATO powered killing machine , with 5 ft of muscle and a action hero voice, his future roles in Hollywood are guaranteed.
Is he ready to let his cities get nuked, youre damned right he is, as long as he takes a few Russians with him at the same time.
How would YOU comrade Mungler avert the threat of nukes being used on your defenceless citizens ?

 

 

Again, heaping scorn on Zelensky? Why? How even?

No matter. He's more popular than you right now 😀

Well, the Russians have nukes and it's up to them if they use them or not.

They drop a small yield nuke; well assuming it works, that's them and North Korea all on their own.

McHugh has posted about how the Yanks looked at using them 50 years ago - fascinating. They didn't though did the, and presumably because they knew that once they opened that Pandora's box....

As for defenseless citizens, these are the same ones invaded and murdered by Putin? You could ask all the dead defenseless citizens of Ukraine if they would prefer death by occupation and torture or nuclear bomb.

Besides, it doesn't matter. This is a game of chess and Putin is a master tactician 😆 All his moves from the start and the invasion have lead to this moment now - all part of his grand master plan. He's a tactical genius dontcha know.

 

2 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Russia is consolidating it's lines in preparation for future manoeuvres.

To date Russian soldiers have been out numbered some 4 to 5 to 1 compared to Ukranian soldiers but have had roughly 5 times the artillery and air support and been able to take and hold ground because of this but have been thinly spread and lose some ground when Ukraine uses higher numbers where the line is thin.

Russia has just mobilised 300k reservists (both true reservists and recently retired soldiers) and is middle of arming them and giving them refresher training, which will take say 6 weeks. Now whether they are used or allowed to take over other Russian troops positions elsewhere to free them up doesn't really matter.

Come the end of the mud season and start of the winter freeze, Russia will then have the ability to put 300k additional soldiers in position to then conduct an offensive operation with almost equal numbers of soldiers to Ukraine with the same 5 times the associated artillery and air support.

The western analysts know it is coming but have nothing they can give Ukraine that would help and once started, Russia's new boundaries are going to be enforced and protected.

The clue will be all the heavy armour and munitions rolling West by train to their forward assembly areas in preparation for the soldiers arrival and there has according to UK military intelligence been an uptick in the last few days of just such movement inside Russia.
 

 

Strange to think that until now Russia has used it's highly trained, highly motivated, crack professional soldiers and Ukraine has just used its citizens which it called up in an unplanned hurry.

Also amazing to think that a modern and open economy like Russia has a limitless supply of own produced and imported modern weaponry, munitions and tech, oh, and that everyone back home will continue to support the invasion of a neighbor when more dead are sent back home although who doesn't love a Lada right?

 

[Rewulf]

12 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Again, heaping scorn on Zelensky? Why? How even?

Because hes a funny little man, with a gruff voice these days , plus , have you see Servant of the People , he should have been executed for making that on its own 
Im joking, but his transformation amuses me.

15 minutes ago, Mungler said:

No matter. He's more popular than you right now

Im sure he is , but there are far less people trying to kill me.

 

16 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Well, the Russians have nukes and it's up to them if they use them or not.

They drop a small yield nuke; well assuming it works, that's them and North Korea all on their own.

McHugh has posted about how the Yanks looked at using them 50 years ago - fascinating. They didn't though did the, and presumably because they knew that once they opened that Pandora's box....

Oh really ? Is that what it was , a moral decision ? 
I suppose the agent orange and carpet bombing with B52s , was the ethical choice then?
The forced internment , rapes and massacres of villagers, collateral....mind you , I think theyve nearly cleaned up the landmines and exfoliants up now , only took 50 odd years, hilarious isnt it , all this whataboutery ?
Tell me again , what were we doing in Vietnam , defending democracy again 😄 Noble.

The Russkies having no morals, will have no issue 'opening Pandoras box' so Ill ask again, what would you do if the ultimatum was given, Nuke or a conditional surrender.
Its easy isnt it , let your country burn (whats left of it) for pride and hubris, or try and negotiate at gunpoint.
You dont seem to like this question, as youve avoided it consistently, as it involves Putin winning a victory of sorts ?

 

22 minutes ago, Mungler said:

As for defenseless citizens, these are the same ones invaded and murdered by Putin? You could ask all the dead defenseless citizens of Ukraine if they would prefer death by occupation and torture or nuclear bomb.

Well we could , but theyre dead, 'defended' by NATO weaponry, and many of them killed because they got used as human shields by their own army.
Maybe they could have had a dodgy referendum to see if they wanted 'defending' first ?
Big Z made that decision for them  , or his handlers did.

 

34 minutes ago, Mungler said:

This is a game of chess and Putin is a master tactician

No , its a game of poker, and Putin may not be the best player, but he has the bigger pot to play with.
Do you play much poker ?

[Stonepark]

40 minutes ago, Mungler said:

😀

 

Well, the Russians have nukes and it's up to them if they use them or not.

They drop a small yield nuke; well assuming it works, that's them and North Korea all on their own.

McHugh has posted about how the Yanks looked at using them 50 years ago - fascinating. They didn't though did the, and presumably because they knew that once they opened that Pandora's box....

 

 

Russia has always stated it will only use Nukes in self defence, indeed it would require acts by the Russian parliament to change this, unlike the USA who do consider them as potential offensive weapons, have used them and have considered using them again.

My thoughts are the "nuke" scenarios are being bounded about to give USA cover to create a fantasy where they think like Iraq they can drum up a coalition to get directly involved in Ukraine because that is the only way possible that Russia's control of the new territories can be possibly stopped.

One important point to consider with nukes, should the war go hot with the USA launching for any reason, both Russia and China will likely launch together as until the missiles are on final trajectory they cannot tell who the USA has launched at and there is no time to double check.... And neither of them would trust the USA that any assurance given that the other would be the sole target would be honoured.

[Rewulf]

Its fairly clear that Saudi dont trust in the US having its best interests at heart, cant imagine why ...

Turkey again, sits in that peculiar place between east and west, or in Mungle , betwist good and evil , Rohan and Mordor 😄

 

[wymberley]

On 03/09/2022 at 11:01, Mice! said:

Exactly,  winter is coming.

 

On 03/09/2022 at 12:43, wymberley said:

Many would appear to have forgotten that winter has long been Russia's greatest ally.

The French learned followed by the Germans is Ukraine next?

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, wymberley said:

 

The French learned followed by the Germans is Ukraine next?

Ukraine isn't invading Russia though.  They are on 'home ground'.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Ukraine isn't invading Russia though.  They are on 'home ground'.

Since the 'annexation' this is debateable , at least in Russia it is 

Anyway , heres some interesting stuff.

 

[Newbie to this]

7 hours ago, ditchman said:

soooooo..........is it possible Shamina Begbum is in danger of being executed for treason...?

Unfortunately no. No crime carries the death penalty now, even at times of war.

Quote

What crimes are punishable by death in the UK? 

There are no crimes punishable by death in the UK now. However, until 2002, capital punishment could still be used during times of war, or threat of war.

Blair made sure he was safe.

[Mungler]

Just more delusional guff based on it all being NATOs fault for helping supply Ukraine and where the world should have sat back and let Putin roll in and over Ukraine.

Well, it’s not gone like that has it.

As for the threat of nukes - that’s always been there. Nothing has changed save an amplification of ‘let the bully have what he wants or he will press the button’. Appeasement never works - the civilised world will just end up butting heads with the Russian invading war mongers in Finland, Moldova or Slovakia as Putin forcibly stitches the USSR back together.

Love the victim blaming though. It’s still everyone else fault, never Putin’s. 

[Mungler]

Oh and this is really worth a read. 
 

https://snyder.substack.com/p/how-does-the-russo-ukrainian-war?utm_campaign=auto_share

Extract:

“Speaking of nuclear war in a broad, general way, we imagine that the Russo-Ukrainian War is all about us.  We feel like the victims.  We talk about our fears and anxieties.  We write click-bait headlines about the end of the world.  But this war is almost certainly not going to end with an exchange of nuclear weapons. 

States with nuclear weapons have been fighting and losing wars since 1945, without using them.  Nuclear powers lose humiliating wars in places like Vietnam and Afghanistan and do not use nuclear weapons.

To be sure, there is a certain temptation to concede mentally to nuclear blackmail.  Once the subject of nuclear war is raised, it seems overwhelmingly important, and we become depressed and obsessed.  That is just where Putin is trying to lead us with his vague allusions to nuclear weapons.  Once we take his cue, we imagine threats that Russia is not actually making.  We start talking about a Ukrainian surrender, just to relieve the psychological pressure we feel.  

This, though, is doing Putin's work for him, bailing him out of a disaster of his own creation.  He is losing the conventional war that he started.  His hope is that references to nuclear weapons will deter the democracies from delivering weapons to Ukraine, and buy him enough time to get Russian reserves to the battlefield to slow the Ukrainian offensive.  He's probably wrong that this would work; but the rhetorical escalation is one of the few plays that he has left.

As I'll explain in a moment, giving in to nuclear blackmail won't end the conventional war in Ukraine.  It would, however, make future nuclear war much more likely.  Making concessions to a nuclear blackmailer teachers him that this sort of threat will get him what he wants, which guarantees further crisis scenarios down the line.  It teaches other dictators, future potential blackmailers, that all they need is a nuclear weapon and some bluster to get what they want, which means more nuclear confrontations.  It tends to convince everyone that the only way to defend themselves is to build nuclear weapons, which means global nuclear proliferation.“

 

So, in short, don’t fill your pants about nukes because that leads to talking ourselves into throwing Ukraine under the Russian bus. 

Also, don't give into bullies.

I agree. 

The war will continue, Russia will be severely weakened and Putin will lose.

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Mungler

[mchughcb]

So lets just assume that Mungler's quotations are wrong.

 

Russian's reserves overwhelm the four regions and the UA is pushed back. Then what?

NATO has already pumped US$60B+ into a country in only 8 months that is neither a part off and the stand off could be for years Thats about $US7B per month. Lets see how keen NATO is to support this for a few years because Zelensky isn't going to negotiate.

 

[Mungler]

6 hours ago, mchughcb said:

So lets just assume that Mungler's quotations are wrong.

 

Russian's reserves overwhelm the four regions and the UA is pushed back. Then what?

NATO has already pumped US$60B+ into a country in only 8 months that is neither a part off and the stand off could be for years Thats about $US7B per month. Lets see how keen NATO is to support this for a few years because Zelensky isn't going to negotiate.

 

We’ve had the stats on what is needed to take and occupy Ukraine, a country three times the size of the UK; a million troops and all the kit, support and supplies they need. 

Putin has forcibly called up less than 500,000 untrained civilians to fight in a non aggressing neighbouring country.

500,000 military age men have since fled Russia to avoid being called up.

Conversely, Ukrainian morale and cohesion is high and this is reflected in military gains and progress.

All those early reports about crumbling moral and Zelensky without support? Anyone who previously swallowed all that Kremlin propaganda want to revisit their position?

I don’t see how Russia can win this - seriously.

At the start I thought it was possible - super power run by a master tactician and all that nonsense. But this has laid bare that they are a shambles and corrupt from top to bottom - absolutely nothing works as it should.

This will go down as the biggest military mistake in history. 

Oh and what underlies all of this is that despite what the Kremlin says, the Ukrainian people really really just don’t want to be part of Russia or under Putin’s boot. That doesn’t appear to me to be that unreasonable.

 

Oh and these are absolutely brilliant.

I’d urge everyone to follow DarthPutin.