Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Mungler]

8 hours ago, bostonmick said:

it is no doubt costing russia a great deal however unless he is unseated from within by his own and the new power backs away putin will force great suffering on his own people.but i do not believe western countries have the appetite to sacrifice their soft lifestyle we no longer have the spirit of the forties people are to selfish to go without.

I think you’re right 

[Mungler]

On 29/06/2022 at 10:32, Dave-G said:

Here's what I saw - I can try to find the source again if you like, defo not RT. The doll was on a sky news clip. I can't find the clip now - maybe it was taken down because it was clearly planted 'evidence'

I initially thought the corrugated steel panels were industrial site walls but its very likely they are remains of a collapsed roof. 

It's telling there were no burnt out cars or other vehicles belonging to the 1000's of shoppers in the 'supermarket' car park. It was found to be empty - and apparently suspected of being used to store western supplied armaments under cover.

 

 

This BBC article is rather good:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61967480

After the missile attack the Russian propaganda sites went into over drive, however, there is a wealth of evidence to confirm the attack as well as CCTV.

It appears that the Russians are down to very old and very inaccurate missiles.

 

 

 

 

[ordnance]

3 hours ago, Mungler said:

 

 

This BBC article is rather good:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/61967480

After the missile attack the Russian propaganda sites went into over drive, however, there is a wealth of evidence to confirm the attack as well as CCTV.

It appears that the Russians are down to very old and very inaccurate missiles.

 

 

 

 

The problem is there are plenty of gullible people out there that believe Russian propaganda, Russia that still denies even invading Ukraine. 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by ordnance

[Rim Fire]

 

[Rim Fire]

10 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

 

[Mungler]

The bare faced lies that come out of the Russian propaganda machine are outrageous and yet some people will choose ‘news’ from Russia Today over the BBC.

Okay you may not like the Beeb or the Guardian etc but to accept Russian state sponsored nonsense over globally trusted UK news sources and outlets really does concern me - it’s shows people being sucked down rabbit holes and lost.

 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

The bare faced lies that come out of the Russian propaganda machine are outrageous and yet some people will choose ‘news’ from Russia Today over the BBC.

I'm not sure where you're getting this propaganda from? Rt has been blocked on all browsers for months now in the UK and elsewhere. 

Apparently boris's 'one narrative' order to Ofcom, made sure we aren't allowed to see any other angle to this than what they want us to see. 

And considering some of the things we're told, propaganda is a perfect description. 

[islandgun]

I always go to Al jazeera, what ever their bias is, it doesn't appear to be pro west or russian

[bostonmick]

looking for the truth in this war is a fools errand.russia will lie ukraine will lie uk will and so will every country of the world regardless of who they support.what right do you think the general public have to be given any real facts.we cannot get any truths from our own government about domestic matters.

[discobob]

43 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

looking for the truth in this war is a fools errand.russia will lie ukraine will lie uk will and so will every country of the world regardless of who they support.what right do you think the general public have to be given any real facts.we cannot get any truths from our own government about domestic matters.

👍

 

9/11 was it where they said it was a good day to release bad news?

[Ratlegs]

Came across this

Makes sense

[Mungler]

41 minutes ago, Ratlegs said:

Came across this

Makes sense

That’s not even what Putin has been saying.

I see the pro Russian spin is that Ukraine was ‘entered’.  That must be different from being invaded with a quarter of a million troops and slaughtering / displacing the locals along the way.

 

 

[Rewulf]

16 minutes ago, Mungler said:

 

I see the pro Russian spin is that Ukraine was ‘entered’.  That must be different from being invaded with a quarter of a million troops and slaughtering / displacing the locals along the way.

 

 

I know you don't like talking about it , because it was sooo long ago... But Afghan got treated the same , Operation enduring freedom no less, how did that pan out ?

20 years of murder , war crimes and terror,  with 250,000 dead, achieved , nothing.

Or Iraq,  an illegal invasion as defined by the UN.

Throughout late 2001, 2002, and early 2003, the Bush administration worked to build a case for invading Iraq, culminating in then-Secretary of State Colin Powell's February 2003 address to the Security Council.^[4] Shortly after the invasion, the Central Intelligence Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, and other intelligence agencies largely discredited evidence related to Iraqi weapons as well as alleged links to al-Qaeda, and at this point, the Bush and Blair administrations began to shift to secondary rationales for the war, such as the Saddam Hussein government's human rights record and promoting democracy in Iraq.^[5][6] Opinion polls showed that people of nearly all countries opposed a war without a UN mandate and that the perception of the United States as a danger to world peace had significantly increased.^[7][8] UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan described the war as illegal, saying in a September 2004 interview that it was "not in conformity with the Security Council".^[9

Around 1 million dead,  during 20 years of murder, war crimes, and terror, leading directly to the formation of even more terror in Syria.

Notable achievements,  nothing , except destabilising the area for years to come.

But we don't like to talk about it when the US goes on ' operations '

[Gordon R]

Whatever the USA has done wrong, doesn't make Putin right.

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, Ratlegs said:

Came across this

Makes sense

So Putin invaded Ukraine out of the goodness of his heart and to stop the bloodshed..hm

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Whatever the USA has done wrong, doesn't make Putin right.

100 % agree, but the way some people talk about Ukraine,  its like Russia is the first to march into a country on a fake pretext .

They've got a long way to go before they beat the Americans for body count.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Whatever the USA has done wrong, doesn't make Putin right.

^^^^This. 

[Mungler]

So much nonsense and it’s never ending; for example the million dead as a result of the Iraq war statistic is factually wrong yet it’s cut and pasted off the usual anti west websites and continually splashed around the internet. 

Anyway, it was 2 decades ago, and so what? There are Russian tank commanders who weren’t even born when Iraq kicked off.

 

[ditchman]

there is soooooooo much conjecture....ruminations.....fake news.....lies....properganda....bar top generals.....CIA dreamers ..out there it is almost impossible to believe what is really happening ...even tho it might be staring you straight in the face

the only truth you will get is from the folk right on the front line............and even then you wont get the truth as it will comprimise...military planning

[Newbie to this]

46 minutes ago, Mungler said:

and so what?

There are probably many Russians saying the same.

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

There are probably many Russians saying the same.

That doesn’t make any sense 

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, Mungler said:

That doesn’t make any sense 

OK

[Rewulf]

8 hours ago, Mungler said:

That doesn’t make any sense 

Neither does this... 

11 hours ago, Mungler said:

Anyway, it was 2 decades ago, and so what? There are Russian tank commanders who weren’t even born when Iraq kicked off

You seem very keen on pointing out how terrible Russias behaviour is in Ukraine, and yes it is, but we did exactly the same stuff in iraq, ect. 

Deliberately blowing up kids at wedding parties, no regard for 'collateral' civilian casualties, rapes, executions, but you dismiss it as whataboutery, or say 'so what'? 

You completely miss the point, it's not about apologising for Russia, or justifying what they're doing, it's about the blatent HYPOCRISY of calling them out on it, when we have done exactly the same. 

You have adopted this holier than thou prose, but all you are doing is parroting the party line. 

Which is surprising, with how you fought hard against it with the pandemic. 

 

[Mungler]

39 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Neither does this... 

You seem very keen on pointing out how terrible Russias behaviour is in Ukraine, and yes it is, but we did exactly the same stuff in iraq, ect. 

Deliberately blowing up kids at wedding parties, no regard for 'collateral' civilian casualties, rapes, executions, but you dismiss it as whataboutery, or say 'so what'? 

You completely miss the point, it's not about apologising for Russia, or justifying what they're doing, it's about the blatent HYPOCRISY of calling them out on it, when we have done exactly the same. 

You have adopted this holier than thou prose, but all you are doing is parroting the party line. 

Which is surprising, with how you fought hard against it with the pandemic. 

 

 

With the passage of time, the Iraq war is and will become increasingly irrelevant - those who were involved are dying, the governments involved no longer exist (we don’t have a surviving Blair or Bush administration) and anyone under 30 years of age will have no real memory of it. So, constantly pointing back to a dark day in our history does not give the Putin regime any green light or free pass and in the same way that in science two wrongs don’t make  right. 

For me, there’s an immediate sniff test to this and Russia is and has been on the wrong side of just about everything for a long time now. A country rich in industrial resource, plundered by an ex KGB mafia who murder or imprison any form of dissent or opposition. 

I am bias in that I have always considered the Russian regime (as too the Chinese and those in most Middle Eastern countries) as abhorrent - no rule of law, no chance of a fair trial or free elections etc. and to my mind unsupportable.

[Newbie to this]

28 minutes ago, Mungler said:

With the passage of time, the Iraq war is and will become increasingly irrelevant

OK

28 minutes ago, Mungler said:

So, constantly pointing back to a dark day in our history does not give the Putin regime any green light or free pass and in the same way that in science two wrongs don’t make

No one is suggesting it does, just merely pointing out the whole hypocrisy of it all.

28 minutes ago, Mungler said:

those who were involved are dying, the governments involved no longer exist (we don’t have a surviving Blair or Bush administration) and anyone under 30 years of age will have no real memory of it

That makes it alright then. Not sure those involved are dying,(see the Tony Blair topic, he is far from dying and still meddling), pretty sure they will not see the justice they deserve for their war crimes. Although I'm also pretty sure Putin won't either.