Held at gun point

[adzyvilla]

Got to say, I agree with oowee here. That response was ridiculously over the top and in another situation could have ended very badly. Your calmness saved the day this time and its clear that the standards for armed response police aren't as high as they used to be so definitely consider a complaint. I know you don't want to upset the coppers, but some of that team sound dangerous.

[Westley]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

so people who wouldn’t hesitate to put you in a coma if need be are supposed to be bothered by a bit of broken glass and shouting obviously didn’t run that one past real criminals first 

I did NOT for 1 second expect you to understand   !

[Gas seal]

If people choose to live near farmland they should know that  farming is a business it’s an outdoor factory with large noisy machinery. Shooting pigeons over crops and using gas guns is  part of farming. I’ve had problems with noise over shooting and gas guns going off at the same time but it was the local environmental department  that were involved. Clay pigeon grounds will be regulated when they can shoot. sporting rights will be to use the land for specific types of sports. Shooting pigeons doesn’t have to be in rural countryside were no one would be reported. Lord Lichfield’s rural Norfolk is light years away from this field, more suburbia than rural. The problem with these places is that some people think they own the fields and no one should be shooting. The police would have stopped the vehicle the way they were trained to and it will be on film. When this happens it puts shooters off but it also keeps dog walkers away for a while.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Personally my feelings are that when it became apparent to the armed Police that a chap with a grudge against the farmer had wasted their time he should have been investigated for it!

[Gas seal]

Hi yes the person who reported the shooting will have been informed of the outcome and may well be questioned. I would ask walked up to google earth the (rural ) area where he was shooting . And google fatal shootings in the area. The police should ask the person who reported shooting why they reported shooting. 

[Dave-G]

This thread is getting a bit woke now.

[Agriv8]

21 hours ago, Jaymo said:

You deserved to be arrested!!!! Fancy wearing crocs whilst in the field 😂😂😂😂😂

Jaymo such a brilliant line needs to be repeated .

Scary- I don’t think our rural force has that many officers never mind ones carrying arms. 
 

someone at head office needs to check deployment criteria.

 

Turning this into a positive I would be enquire with your firearms certificate issuer on your version of events and there thoughts on how to avoid a further incident or issues if it has made it onto your firearms record 

Agriv8 

 

[Westley]

23 hours ago, BlaserF3 said:

Idiot's carrying guns! Some Police officers are not safe with a pencil.

And neither are some shooters  !  It is only 2 weeks ago that I was looking down the wrong end of an over and under at a shooting ground. A solo shooter dropped the trap buttons as he was trying to clip them on the side of the cage, with a closed and loaded gun he turned and bent down to pick them up. The result was me standing some 5 feet away,being able to comment on how clean the cartridges he was using were. At least the Police Officers actions were intentional. 

[BlaserF3]

44 minutes ago, Westley said:

And neither are some shooters  !  It is only 2 weeks ago that I was looking down the wrong end of an over and under at a shooting ground. A solo shooter dropped the trap buttons as he was trying to clip them on the side of the cage, with a closed and loaded gun he turned and bent down to pick them up. The result was me standing some 5 feet away,being able to comment on how clean the cartridges he was using were. At least the Police Officers actions were intentional. 

Did you not shout at him and ask why he turned around?  I would have thought that you with all your experience you would have realised what was going to happen as soon as he dropped the button.

Edited July 25, 2022 by BlaserF3
addition

[Humblepie]

On 24/07/2022 at 21:12, London Best said:

In a similar incident some 17 years ago my companion told the first armed response officer that waved a gun in his direction, “Oi! Don’t point that ******* thing at me.”

I know of a similar story…..it wasn’t a certain Mr Louch RIP was it?

[HantsRob]

7 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Why shouldn't the OP relate stuff he had noted: red nail varnish and women screaming demands, how he was supposed to keep hands in sight while opening a door, and its fair to note finger action and muzzle awareness. 

Its reasonable to assume femininely made up girlies may not react the way strapping grit men would.

HantsRob sounds like a fully paid up member of the 'how dare you feel women are different to men' brigade, but ordinary, especially country active people, won't be thinking that way.

Your middle sentence against fully trained and qualified firearms officers of different genders is exactly what misogyny is.

In the case of this post, a firearms officer is just that. The same training and level of skill. Nothing to do with what brigade I support, and I am actually a country bumpkin who grew up next to and opposite a farm, and still living in the countryside. 

[Westley]

2 hours ago, BlaserF3 said:

Did you not shout at him and ask why he turned around?  I would have thought that you with all your experience you would have realised what was going to happen as soon as he dropped the button.

No, not a wise thing to do if someone is pointing a gun at you, and yes, I know that from experience too. I waited until he had fired his 2 cartridges and then stepped in, before he could reload. Obviously he was mortified, but it happens a lot, especially  from game shooters.

[WalkedUp]

It is probably a fair criticism that I was crudely sexist about the screeching women officers (less so the older woman), and certainly could have conveyed the event in a more tempered manner, but I wrote it as I saw it. The finger nail paint was a detail I couldn’t help but notice, if I were to write it again I would probably be better at ignoring my impulse to implicitly blame their poor response on their gender. I went out for a work lunch today with a woman and two men, cowardly I omitted all of my sexist hints today when recalling it as I didn’t want to offend the woman.  I knew I was biased, as I stated in my final sentence. I have edited the original. 

I’ve had the police attend when shooting before, always in a sensible and courteous manner. If you think it is appropriate for police to respond in such a heavy handed and dangerous way then sadly their will be many accidental deaths, I can’t change my mind on this aspect regardless of their gender. 

[WalkedUp]

On 24/07/2022 at 18:57, WalkedUp said:

Recently I was out pigeon shooting on a block of winter barley that had been cut a few days earlier. At lunch time I popped into my car to go and get some supplies, leaving my buddy with my S2 shotgun on loan. I took my dog and S1 .223” with me in the boot, but left everything else. As I was heading out of the field gate I was intercepted by fully battle ready, heavily armed police officers. Their guns were up aimed directly at me, from a close enough range I could see one officer’s painted finger nails on the trigger (some wore gloves, some didn’t). I wasn’t panicked as I knew it was an error but I was annoyed by the excessive and inappropriate use of force. The officers were screaming, with Heckler & Koch G36C carbines being thrust in my face. They wanted me to keep my hands up and get out of the car. I explained to the officer that as I was wearing a seat belt that wasn’t possible.

I pointed out that I was wearing a cartridge belt but unarmed. Anyway once common sense ensued I was allowed out of the car. I thought this would calm the situation as I was in a field of spring wheat, (adjacent block to what I was shooting) and wearing shorts, crocs, polo shirt, green waistcoat, flat cap 🤣 but they still wanted to treat this as a terrorist training exercise. You could see that one police officer had post-adrenaline jitters and was stuck in panic mode. More and more officers turned up, filing out in pairs of I believe four armed response cars. I kept calm to avoid escalating the situation despite my annoyance at staring down a barrel, as they explained why they were detaining me I noticed the side arms... combat knife, Glock pistol and a grenade launcher for baton rounds. They were sweating in their full combat gear, helmets, goggles, full body armour. Once again having friendly dog defused the madness, I said “listen, my dog is in the boot and it’s a hot day... please can we get her out?”  This worked a treat and as soon as everyone could pet the dog their guns were lowered and proper adult conversion could take place. 

An armed older officer took charge and was very sensible in a headmistress sort of way. I explained what I was doing and able to provide references etc. The other officers swooped upon my friend but by that point had decided to behave a bit more reasonably. I ‘mansplained’ to the officer that you do not point a gun at anything you do not intend to kill, and that on my shoot I would ban anyone who muzzled anyone with a loaded or unloaded gun. My conclusion being that their initial reaction was disproportionate considering the report was of a man shooting pigeons in a field in a rural area of England and the likelihood of it being a terrorist incident was infinitesimally small. The first officer on scene interjected as they could see my implication was regarding their behaviour. The officer said it was a proportionate response as I was in a vehicle and was ‘attempting to evade them’, which had ‘escalated’ the incident. (The car was in a muddy field, about to turn slowly onto a three yard wide single carriage way in a low density area.) I could sense it was too soon for reflective learning and so just let it be. All guns were fully checked, I was able to range the boundaries to show the hide was over 200m from any other use etc. They spoke to the landowner and it transpired it was a nuisance call from a local resident he is in dispute with regarding noise complaints. A couple of other officers turned up and were very sensible. We were able to carry on shooting.

I couldn’t resist asking them if it had been a quiet day. 

I have withheld the county and the date in order to protect their identities without the opportunity for them to respond. I do not wish to make a formal complaint as this could jeopardise my future dealings with that  police force. 

 

Edited this quote as I couldn’t edit the original. Certainly nothing is lost through losing the sexism. 

[Houseplant]

Shocking story/experience for the OP. Thought it would just be a matter of time before reading something like this happening in the UK (or even NZ). A man with a gun on a "block of winter barley" is a completely different kettle of fish to a man with a gun at a school or shopping centre. What were the police thinking? 

As for the politically correct stuff, there may be a point to be made, but as ever it detracts from the important message which is a law-abiding individual being held at gunpoint for no good reason! Some perspective please.

[WalkedUp]

On 24/07/2022 at 19:13, WalkedUp said:

I asked (knowing the answer) if any of them shot outside of work. None of the 5 female officers did. Two of the male officers did, the ones that didn’t point a gun in my face.

It wasn’t a bad day, just a waste of their resource. 

The relevance of this (edited in quote, like the other one I can’t edit the original) is not that people who shoot  are good eggs and top blokes etc etc but rather people who shoot outside of work are likely to understand the circumstances in which a gun may be used legally and be able to quickly recognise that and act in an appropriate way as opposed to see the lawful use of a weapon as a lethal threat. 

[WalkedUp]

14 hours ago, Westley said:

offender

I don’t consider myself an offender.

This is probably a key aspect, do we want our police force to treat us as offenders based upon no evidence? The call to the police was a noise complaint, I don’t know if it was dispatch or the officers themselves who escalated it into an attempted Russian invasion. 

[Walker570]

Obviously a totally over the top reaction and response.  Did the woman screech? Did she have red nail polish?  If the answer is yes then I can see nothing wrong with referring to it. All this political correct carp is getting up my nose.

[HantsRob]

@WalkedUp, I massively respect you for your reflection regardless of what we think.

We could discuss the response and tactics til the cows come home but regardless of that it was an interesting read from your point of view. 

I’ll probably step away from further responses on this thread, so will just say keep safe and good health 

[WalkedUp]

8 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Did she have red nail polish? 

Just for accuracy, one officer had completely white fake nails, another officer had fluorescent orange fake nails. It is a very small sample, but these two were the ones with the adrenaline jitters and poor gun handling. Their assault rifles should have been in the ‘low-ready’ position, fingers on the action off the trigger, gun shouldered but aimed down into the ground in a safe direction. Position of their fingers is relevant, as is identifying traits. The guns were aimed at me in ‘high-ready’ which is the equivalent safety standard of your friend standing a yard away with his 12 bore loaded at your face and his trigger on the action. Those who defend the police’s gun handling in this circumstance but castigate poor gun handling on shoot days are a tad hypocritical.

 

1 minute ago, HantsRob said:

@WalkedUp, I massively respect you for your reflection regardless of what we think.

We could discuss the response and tactics til the cows come home but regardless of that it was an interesting read from your point of view. 

I’ll probably step away from further responses on this thread, so will just say keep safe and good health 

Thanks @HantsRob, I am never upset to have people disagree with me, that’s how we learn - or certainly I do. 

[London Best]

9 hours ago, Humblepie said:

I know of a similar story…..it wasn’t a certain Mr Louch RIP was it?

No Sir.

[Agriv8]

WalkedUp you still have not answered the burning question we’re you cautioned for the wearing of the crocs ?

As for the account and rampant sexism I read as adding “tone” to the account. In a situation like this I would be watching fingers and triggers very carefully! Please can you write to the force to complain that the response team did not have :-

one male officer with nail polish

the correct percentage of officers from ethnic back grounds

at least one officer identifying as a gender not the same as there birth certificate 

arive in an electric vehicle 

Agriv8 

[London Best]

2 minutes ago, Agriv8 said:

WalkedUp you still have not answered the burning question we’re you cautioned for the wearing of the crocs ?

As for the account and rampant sexism I read as adding “tone” to the account. In a situation like this I would be watching fingers and triggers very carefully! Please can you write to the force to complain that the response team did not have :-

one male officer with nail polish

the correct percentage of officers from ethnic back grounds

at least one officer identifying as a gender not the same as there birth certificate 

arive in an electric vehicle 

Agriv8 

Very good.

[rbrowning2]

come on tell the truth, they were the general licence compliance squad and just checking you were complying 😂

Hope you asked to try their guns 😊

[Westley]

3 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

I don’t consider myself an offender.

This is probably a key aspect, do we want our police force to treat us as offenders based upon no evidence? The call to the police was a noise complaint, I don’t know if it was dispatch or the officers themselves who escalated it into an attempted Russian invasion. 

I NEVER said that you were  !