Todays budget

[ditchman]

7 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Come on, we know you like it when we call you ‘fluffy wuffy bunnykins’ 🥰

only when i can feel your hot breath on my hips...........

 

the rest of the time sir please....or mein herr...

[Lloyd90]

It’s not always about politics, sometimes or often it’s about imagine. 
 

Giving a tax cut to people earning over £150,000 a year, whilst everyday people are genuinely worried about how they are going to put the heating on, or put fuel in the car, was absolute madness. 
 

How they ever thought they could do that and not look bad just shows how clueless they are. 
 

I imagine the big revolt and backlash from the Tory MP’s is due to the fact many of them realised they would lose their seats if she goes ahead. That’s still a real possibility with the way things are going. 
 

It’s a blame game now, she’s blamed him for the policy, he’s now trying to claw back some credit, claiming the U turn is them listening and doing as the party / people wanted. 
 

The whole thing just makes them look like idiots. 
 

 

Enjoy your game shooting for the next 2 years cos when Labour get in it’s bye bye gone. 

[Mice!]

10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Giving a tax cut to people earning over £150,000 a year, whilst everyday people are genuinely worried about how they are going to put the heating on, or put fuel in the car, was absolute madness. 

Not how I saw it, those earning more than the £150k are already earning 4,5 or 6 times more than the ordinary Joe is likely to be earning,  but they would be spending the tax cut in shops, pubs and restaurants where the Joe's work.

But all most seem to have seen is those on higher wages getting a tax cut.

5% of 25,000 = 1,250

5% of 150,000 = 7,500

But if I've worked it out right, 40% tax off £150,000 is £60,000 (I realise its not all taxed at 40%) so they are paying way more tax into the system than Joe ever will, but all anyone sees is the well off getting a tax cut.

[Jaymo]

28 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Not how I saw it, those earning more than the £150k are already earning 4,5 or 6 times more than the ordinary Joe is likely to be earning,  but they would be spending the tax cut in shops, pubs and restaurants where the Joe's work.

But all most seem to have seen is those on higher wages getting a tax cut.

5% of 25,000 = 1,250

5% of 150,000 = 7,500

But if I've worked it out right, 40% tax off £150,000 is £60,000 (I realise its not all taxed at 40%) so they are paying way more tax into the system than Joe ever will, but all anyone sees is the well off getting a tax cut.

They only hear the numbers, never the reasoning behind them! 
It’s like that pub analogy- he gets 7500 back and I’m only getting £1250. Yet as you say he is paying five times the tax. 
 

[Jaymo]

Well, it’s officially a ‘disaster day’ based on the following:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-11278271/Greggs-hikes-sausage-roll-prices-sales-continue-grow.html

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Well, it’s officially a ‘disaster day’ based on the following:

You may or may not like Greggs fare - but it has been a very successful business that has increased hugely in value (share price) and pays healthy dividends - possibly the healthiest thing it provides!

[discobob]

24 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

Well, it’s officially a ‘disaster day’ based on the following:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-11278271/Greggs-hikes-sausage-roll-prices-sales-continue-grow.html

That's it McDonalds raising the price of the cheeseburger - Greggs doing sausage rolls

Will Pound Bakery now have to change its name as well!!!

[oowee]

3 hours ago, Mice! said:

Not how I saw it, those earning more than the £150k are already earning 4,5 or 6 times more than the ordinary Joe is likely to be earning,  but they would be spending the tax cut in shops, pubs and restaurants where the Joe's work.

But all most seem to have seen is those on higher wages getting a tax cut.

5% of 25,000 = 1,250

5% of 150,000 = 7,500

But if I've worked it out right, 40% tax off £150,000 is £60,000 (I realise its not all taxed at 40%) so they are paying way more tax into the system than Joe ever will, but all anyone sees is the well off getting a tax cut.

I am with this but those earning say £20k should not be paying tax. More so they should not be paying the debt used to allow high rate tax payers to avoid the additional rate. 

If the Govt wants to make these sort of changes they should overhaul the whole system. 

[discobob]

25 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am with this but those earning say £20k should not be paying tax. More so they should not be paying the debt used to allow high rate tax payers to avoid the additional rate. 

If the Govt wants to make these sort of changes they should overhaul the whole system. 

But there is a good chance that those that are on £20K are also getting Tax-Credits - funded by people who earn more money and pay more tax....

The government has suggested looking at benefits but that has also caused outrage and now they are saying they are going to increase benefits by 5%

and who will be paying for that - people pulled into the 40% bracket by fiscal drag.....

[Wilts#Dave]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

I am with this but those earning say £20k should not be paying tax. More so they should not be paying the debt used to allow high rate tax payers to avoid the additional rate. 

If the Govt wants to make these sort of changes they should overhaul the whole system. 

Why shouldn’t they? How contradictory, not sure why more at the lower end should just get given a free ride instead. 
The hard working ‘middle’ earners are the ones who are never given a break! 
Sadly the tax system will never suit everyone fairly, but I agree the whole system is due an overhaul……I dread to think what ludicrous scheme whichever government was tasked with that would come up with though. 

[Wilts#Dave]

13 hours ago, Mice! said:

Not how I saw it, those earning more than the £150k are already earning 4,5 or 6 times more than the ordinary Joe is likely to be earning,  but they would be spending the tax cut in shops, pubs and restaurants where the Joe's work.

But all most seem to have seen is those on higher wages getting a tax cut.

5% of 25,000 = 1,250

5% of 150,000 = 7,500

But if I've worked it out right, 40% tax off £150,000 is £60,000 (I realise its not all taxed at 40%) so they are paying way more tax into the system than Joe ever will, but all anyone sees is the well off getting a tax cut.

You honestly think  that 5% tax reduction would have meant the high earners going to the pub more often, having extra meals out (like they couldn’t afford it beforehand) 😂

Agree on the second part, those high earners are already paying a LOT more into the tax system than the people complaining……being first in line for a tax cut was clearly a mistake though! 

[Mice!]

8 minutes ago, Wilts#Dave said:

You honestly think  that 5% tax reduction would have meant the high earners going to the pub more often, having extra meals out (like they couldn’t afford it beforehand)

I've already said previously those earning £150k upwards are way beyond me, if they got the 5% tax cut, then what would they do with it? They'll spend it.

10 minutes ago, Wilts#Dave said:

Agree on the second part, those high earners are already paying a LOT more into the tax system than the people complaining……being first in line for a tax cut was clearly a mistake though! 

They're effectively paying for the whole system, but all people could see was those earning way more than them getting a tax cut, folk moaning about not being able to turn the heating on or eat while someone paying £60k plus in tax is at fault.

I'd have liked to have seen someone from the Gov come out and explain it like that, ask those moaning where they think the money comes from to pay for the infrastructure that runs the country.

But instead they panicked thinking of the next GE, and made themselves look weak.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Wilts#Dave said:

Why shouldn’t they? How contradictory, not sure why more at the lower end should just get given a free ride instead. 
The hard working ‘middle’ earners are the ones who are never given a break! 
Sadly the tax system will never suit everyone fairly, but I agree the whole system is due an overhaul……I dread to think what ludicrous scheme whichever government was tasked with that would come up with though. 

Why do basic earners have a personal allowance? 

It would simplify the system if we did not tax and repay with income support. Variable vat would help. Basic foods and energy zero rated. 

[Raja Clavata]

Some of the comments on here, particularly from the self righteous money market experts haven’t aged particularly well, have they 😂

Mini budget…😆

[Mungler]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Some of the comments on here, particularly from the self righteous money market experts haven’t aged particularly well, have they 😂

Mini budget…😆

 

How so?

They set a mini budget, then followed a mass of U-turns, another party implosion and here comes Labour with a landslide and everyone else facing a nasty nasty recession.

As for the Tory party - they’ve allowed themselves to be controlled by the whims of a fickle media, have squandered a massive seat lead and now deserve to be sent into the wilderness to sort themselves out. 

I just hope that we have the full 2 years before Labour arrive and make what is a terrible situation far worse.

Keep an eye out for contagion in Europe and gilts trader jumper off buildings. All confidence in government debt has now gone and wherever I look the future looks totally bleak. Deep joy. 

 

[Newbie to this]

16 minutes ago, Mungler said:

As for the Tory party - they’ve allowed themselves to be controlled by the whims of a fickle media, have squandered a massive seat lead and now deserve to be sent into the wilderness to sort themselves out. 

Hopefully they will stop recruiting from those that have little to no life experience, but have a degree in politics or latin.

[Mungler]

7 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Hopefully they will stop recruiting from those that have little to no life experience, but have a degree in politics or latin.

It’s a double edged sword. Liz was comprehensive educated and elected by the Tory membership but she’s about to be axed by the party machine.

Part of politics is understanding that if you want to implement a policy then you need to carry people along with you - her budget, she should have leaked it to all the right people, taken consensus from the markets and so on, then pressed the button. She didn’t do any of that and the panic reaction was what we have just seen. So, maybe you do need someone with the degree in politics to have the better understanding of how the big machine works.

I’m just going to vote for whoever implements the lowest taxes and leaves me with the most amount of my own money.

I am coming round to the notion that western democracy is a mirage. If Truss gets hoofed out but weeks after the conclusion of a months long drawn out voting process where she got elected by the party faithful then what was the point of that? The only way to establish democracy is to then hold a general election and that’s Labour in - that’s not what the Conservative party faithful voted for. 

Total mess.

[Newbie to this]

5 minutes ago, Mungler said:

It’s a double edged sword. Liz was comprehensive educated and elected by the Tory membership but she’s about to be axed by the party machine.

Part of politics is understanding that if you want to implement a policy then you need to carry people along with you - her budget, she should have leaked it to all the right people, taken consensus from the markets and so on, then pressed the button. She didn’t do any of that and the panic reaction was what we have just seen. So, maybe you do need someone with the degree in politics to have the better understanding of how the big machine works.

I’m just going to vote for whoever implements the lowest taxes and leaves me with the most amount of my own money.

I am coming round to the notion that western democracy is a mirage. If Truss gets hoofed out but weeks after the conclusion of a months long drawn out voting process where she got elected by the party faithful then what was the point of that? The only way to establish democracy is to then hold a general election and that’s Labour in - that’s not what the Conservative party faithful voted for. 

Total mess.

The problem is, they are all way out of touch. Not just the Conservatives, all of them.

They listen to and fear the vocal minorities, at the detriment to the silent majority 

The Conservatives are way out of touch even with their own members, and they don't/won't listen. The membership didn't want Truss, Sunak or any of the others that were put forward, they wanted Boris, still do.

When a party with such a majority is failing to command themselves, how can they command the country.....

They have to go, but that only brings Labour and even more financial hardships.

We need a viable 3rd option (hell we need a viable first and second), but it is not there. Not one that enough people would back anyway. They seem to be a one or two man band, and cannot get enough decent candidates to stand.

[Mungler]

8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

The problem is, they are all way out of touch. Not just the Conservatives, all of them.

They listen to and fear the vocal minorities, at the detriment to the silent majority 

The Conservatives are way out of touch even with their own members, and they don't/won't listen. The membership didn't want Truss, Sunak or any of the others that were put forward, they wanted Boris, still do.

When a party with such a majority is failing to command themselves, how can they command the country.....

They have to go, but that only brings Labour and even more financial hardships.

We need a viable 3rd option (hell we need a viable first and second), but it is not there. Not one that enough people would back anyway. They seem to be a one or two man band, and cannot get enough decent candidates to stand.

Agreed

[Mice!]

8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

The problem is, they are all way out of touch. Not just the Conservatives, all of them.

They listen to and fear the vocal minorities, at the detriment to the silent majority 

The Conservatives are way out of touch even with their own members, and they don't/won't listen. The membership didn't want Truss, Sunak or any of the others that were put forward, they wanted Boris, still do.

When a party with such a majority is failing to command themselves, how can they command the country.....

They have to go, but that only brings Labour and even more financial hardships.

We need a viable 3rd option (hell we need a viable first and second), but it is not there. Not one that enough people would back anyway. They seem to be a one or two man band, and cannot get enough decent candidates to stand.

I can't think of a time when any MPs were actually in touch with the average Joe's,  they have always lived in a bubble,  but you expect them to have some idea what they are doing,  it doesn't seem like it at the moment. 

I'm quite sure most wanted Boris to stay, the problem is that means his wife is still there and likely all the green and woke madness as well.

[udderlyoffroad]

9 minutes ago, Mungler said:

The only way to establish democracy is to then hold a general election and that’s Labour in - that’s not what the Conservative party faithful voted for. 

Total mess.

I suspect it'll be a coalition hellscape like 2010 rather than an outright trouncing.  Mostly because, for all the Tories' issues, the shadow cabinet has members that are, shall we say, electoral poison.  Lammy?  Shah?  Miliband?  What are those doing anywhere near a cabinet post?

 

[Newbie to this]

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I suspect it'll be a coalition hellscape like 2010 rather than an outright trouncing.  Mostly because, for all the Tories' issues, the shadow cabinet has members that are, shall we say, electoral poison.  Lammy?  Shah?  Miliband?  What are those doing anywhere near a cabinet post?

 

Let's not forget Abbott.

If we get a coalition, let's just hope it is the Cons, backed by Reform. But I can't see it.

I see either a Labour slim majority, or a Labour, Lib Dem coalition, lunging back towards the EU, which will cause even more problems than we have now.

If anyone actually thinks we can rejoin and just carry on, they need to seek mental health advice.

[Mice!]

5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

see either a Labour slim majority, or a Labour, Lib Dem coalition, lunging back towards the EU, which will cause even more problems than we have now.

If anyone actually thinks we can rejoin and just carry on, they need to seek mental health advice.

Can you imagine what they would be willing to give up to get us back in, it makes you shudder.

[Raja Clavata]

There should be no talk of rejoining the EU.

I’ve never voted Labour and can’t see myself ever doing so but I can’t see how, in general, they could be any worse than the current lot. To be clear I’m not advocating finding out and appreciate it would impact country sports, but honestly.

It’s a mess of epic proportions and I really don’t know what the answer is.

I would have “benefitted” from the proposed tax on paper (pocket) but as I said previously on this thread there is no point being personally minted if everything around you is impoverished. That seems to be the way we are going. I don’t follow the reasoning that supports that idea unless you’re so minted you can live on a yacht somewhere and / or have a private track you can drive your super cars around on.

e.g. No point owning a super car that you can’t drive for fear of smashing it into potholes on a daily basis.

[12gauge82]

What we need is a complete shake up, why has the choice always got to be labour or the cons. Neither have stood up for the working masses, you've got labour on one side who only care about those on benefits and woke agendas and the cons who deliver sound bites to the workers whilst always seeing the mega wealthy do well. 

I'll not vote either.