The absurd and the ridiculous

[ShootingEgg]

On 19/10/2022 at 20:57, Weihrauch17 said:

If you were an organisation representing Classic Car owners you would be calling for a ban on Petrol.

You do realise that most suppliers of the meat we shoot will not accept lead shot game, agree or disagree with some findings or comments by anti lead groups, basc and shooters have very little option but to concede to the removal of lead. If we cannot put what is shot into the food chain then we are just killing for the sake of killing, and would be wasting alot of meat. I don't think there is much anyone can do to stop this transition to lead alternatives. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by ShootingEgg

[8 shot]

29 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

You do realise that most suppliers of the meat we shoot will not accept lead shot game, agree or disagree with some findings or comments by anti lead groups, basc and shooters have very little option but to concede to the removal of lead. If we cannot put what is shot into the food chain then we are just killing for the sake of killing, and would be wasting alot of meat. I don't think there is much anyone can do to stop this transition to lead alternatives. 

And as i understand it they're not taking much steel shot game either, but we knew that....didn't we.

[Scully]

10 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

And as i understand it they're not taking much steel shot game either, but we knew that....didn't we.

Where have you got this information from? 

[Weihrauch17]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

You do realise that most suppliers of the meat we shoot will not accept lead shot game, agree or disagree with some findings or comments by anti lead groups, basc and shooters have very little option but to concede to the removal of lead. If we cannot put what is shot into the food chain then we are just killing for the sake of killing, and would be wasting alot of meat. I don't think there is much anyone can do to stop this transition to lead alternatives. 

Suppliers of the meat we shoot, confused?? Stop commercial shoots putting Game into the food chain using lead and leave everyone else out of it, simples!!

[ShootingEgg]

7 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Suppliers of the meat we shoot, confused?? Stop commercial shoots putting Game into the food chain using lead and leave everyone else out of it, simples!!

It's not just commercial shoots who supply meat though !! What ever we think no amount of lobbying will change this. And I'd not be surprised if we are forced to change before the 5 yr phase out. I don't say I agree with it but I genuinely think we are being pushed in that direction and we dont have a leg to stand on to stop it, orgs or no orgs.

[Scully]

7 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Suppliers of the meat we shoot, confused?? Stop commercial shoots putting Game into the food chain using lead and leave everyone else out of it, simples!!

He means game dealers, supplying to the food chain. 
Commercial shoots are being stopped from ‘ putting game into the food chain using lead ‘, but the lead shot ban isn’t about that. 

[Stimo22]

I was a member for many years and supported them as much as possible. Ran a Duck shoot where we had a syndicated membership and a clay shoot where we encouraged members to join. We do however live in a complete black hole as far as the BASC are concerned, we are on the very edge of a couple of areas so very , very rarely get them to organise any event anywhere near us. Our region (south east) nearly all the events are south of London where we are 50 miles north of there. Also the perception has been that the organisation is toothless, as the problems with certification and medical forms have proved. Our syndicate voted to stop the syndicated membership and the clay shots joins the CPSA. 
BASC have got to improve there image and at least get some of the problems sorted , get out in the regions and discuss thing with members, not just expect people to become members . There are so many other organisations out there that offer similar benefits, some of them disgruntled breakaway members from BASC. 

[Penelope]

On 20/10/2022 at 00:39, Weihrauch17 said:

Yes keep up the good work of crucifying many branches of shooting in supporting a totally needless Lead Ban to support commercial shoots, Jesus Christ!  The only saving grace is they will all be out of a job.

Whether you like it or not, commercial driven shooting is the bedrock on which all other branches stand on.

[wymberley]

Fascinated Mr O'Gorman may well be, I'm more concerned about the BBC piece this morning at breakfast time regarding the 100 plus cases of birds of prey being killed in the past year and the associated interview with the RSPB where there was no opportunity for us to have our say. Not directly a fault of BASC as they can't know everything that the BBC are going to pull, but instead of aiming flowery prose at us, a short sharp pointy stick aimed at that confounded mob to ensure that we get equal footing would be a far better use of Mr O' Gorman's time I feel. 

[Poor Shot]

26 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Fascinated Mr O'Gorman may well be, I'm more concerned about the BBC piece this morning at breakfast time regarding the 100 plus cases of birds of prey being killed in the past year and the associated interview with the RSPB where there was no opportunity for us to have our say. Not directly a fault of BASC as they can't know everything that the BBC are going to pull, but instead of aiming flowery prose at us, a short sharp pointy stick aimed at that confounded mob to ensure that we get equal footing would be a far better use of Mr O' Gorman's time I feel. 

Then the old timers and the traditionalists need to stop killing BOP to protect their game birds.

You'd be a fool to believe that it doesn't go on and even more foolish to believe that it isn't common place amongst commercial shoots, small syndicates and even the odd old timer that takes an opportunistic shot believing that they are doing the right thing.

Every BOP killed is another shovel out of the grave that shooting is digging for itself.

Only when we change will perceptions of us start to change.

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Whether you like it or not, commercial driven shooting is the bedrock on which all other branches stand on.

if that’s the case we will all be on the same footing when the powers that be decide to ban the unnecessary shooting of birds and only allow them to be shot when needed which is exactly where we are heading 

[Scully]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if that’s the case we will all be on the same footing when the powers that be decide to ban the unnecessary shooting of birds and only allow them to be shot when needed which is exactly where we are heading 

And which birds ‘need’ to be shot and for what purpose? 

[London Best]

26 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if that’s the case 

Penelope is right. That is very much the case.

[wymberley]

25 minutes ago, Poor Shot said:

Then the old timers and the traditionalists need to stop killing BOP to protect their game birds.

You'd be a fool to believe that it doesn't go on and even more foolish to believe that it isn't common place amongst commercial shoots, small syndicates and even the odd old timer that takes an opportunistic shot believing that they are doing the right thing.

Every BOP killed is another shovel out of the grave that shooting is digging for itself.

Only when we change will perceptions of us start to change.

In which case one sensible option would be for us to take action ‘in house’ and not to wait for any court case to arise, but to ensure that the odd old timer ‘retires’, the commercial shoots known to be guilty as charged closed down and association memberships cancelled for others as a first offence. Because from what you say folk aren’t going to do it voluntarily and just like safety we need to be seen to be pro active.

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 hours ago, wymberley said:

Fascinated Mr O'Gorman may well be, I'm more concerned about the BBC piece this morning at breakfast time regarding the 100 plus cases of birds of prey being killed in the past year and the associated interview with the RSPB where there was no opportunity for us to have our say. Not directly a fault of BASC as they can't know everything that the BBC are going to pull, but instead of aiming flowery prose at us, a short sharp pointy stick aimed at that confounded mob to ensure that we get equal footing would be a far better use of Mr O' Gorman's time I feel. 

The tiny minority of those in the shooting community who are involved in the illegal killing of birds of prey are also killing off their own future. The illegal killing of birds of prey remains the easiest and most public route for those against shooting to campaign for further restrictions.

https://basc.org.uk/basc-responds-to-rspb-birdcrime-report/
 

[Weihrauch17]

6 hours ago, Penelope said:

Whether you like it or not, commercial driven shooting is the bedrock on which all other branches stand on.

Air Rifle shooting, Vermin control, Clay shooting, Rough Shooting, Wildfowling etc etc have absolutely no relationship with Commercial shoots.  

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Air Rifle shooting, Vermin control, Clay shooting, Rough Shooting, Wildfowling etc etc have absolutely no relationship with Commercial shoots.  

Really?   My route into driven game shooting started with an interest in guns and shooting, and as a kid my only outlet was air rifles. 

I went from there to a rimfire, shooting vermin and pests on my BIL’s land, and the land where mates shot. I then went on to mooching about hedgerows with a shotgun ( rough shooting ) with a regular visit to a local clay ground. Then I started beating, followed by beaters day ( driven game shooting ) and am now in two syndicates, one driven one rough, shoot even more clays than I ever have before, enjoy decoying, vermin control and regularly beat on a big commercial shoot. Still use an air rifle on a regular basis.  No relationship? Give over. 
My nephews story is very similar as is that of most shooting people I know. 
 

[8 shot]

Out of interest what is your definition of a "Commercial Shoot" ?

[Weihrauch17]

50 minutes ago, Scully said:

Really?   My route into driven game shooting started with an interest in guns and shooting, and as a kid my only outlet was air rifles. 

I went from there to a rimfire, shooting vermin and pests on my BIL’s land, and the land where mates shot. I then went on to mooching about hedgerows with a shotgun ( rough shooting ) with a regular visit to a local clay ground. Then I started beating, followed by beaters day ( driven game shooting ) and am now in two syndicates, one driven one rough, shoot even more clays than I ever have before, enjoy decoying, vermin control and regularly beat on a big commercial shoot. Still use an air rifle on a regular basis.  No relationship? Give over. 
My nephews story is very similar as is that of most shooting people I know. 
 

Total and utter rubbish every branch of shooting sports I quoted would exist just fine if there wasn't a single commercial shoot in the country, they have no reliance on commercial shooting what so ever so in no way 'do they exist off the bedrock of Commercial shoots' as quoted by Penelope.  I started at 7 with an airgun and was oblivious to the fact that without commercial shoots I would never had got one.  I would go the other way and the say the main thing that threatens shooting as a whole are commercial shoots, they will do for all of us.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

Out of interest what is your definition of a "Commercial Shoot" ?

Me? I would say a commercial shoot is any which sells shooting for money, whatever the quarry species. 
You still haven’t answered my question by the way; where have you got the information from that not many game dealers are taking steel shot game either? 

[Gas seal]

Commercial shooting the bedrock of shooting, sounds like an advertisement. The only people who can stop the shoots that killed birds of prey are the shooters by not shooting over them. How many people were involved in the killing or could have stopped the birds of prey killed. It doesn’t look good when shooters aren’t catching them. Wild Justice don’t have money but if they want to prosecute them they will ask for donations from the public and get it. If we don’t police ourselves it looks like Wild Justice will police us, the way forward could be let them get on with catching these people and when they prosecute them give them a donation and that should include the BASC.  It’s no good blaming old timers and it’s not about protecting birds it’s the cost of the birds. There is more against shooting today than there has ever been the BASC and other organisations have a lot to do if there members agree or disagree with anything they should communicate with them. 

[markm]

At one point I was a member of NGO / BASC / CA. 

 

I am still in NGO and CA. 

 

I left BASC partially for their (poor) leading stance on lead shot, their terrible promo / marketing of the sport (even after spending a massive amount of members money on a news studio) but mainly for their clique / jobs for the boys young shots scheme. I’m not going into the details, as it was a few years ago and I had it out with their North East regional staff at the time - who couldn’t argue with the facts I shared.  Now my son is well past that age I’ve had it out with them again for others this season as they haven’t changed. 
 

So there you go Mr BASC…..

[8 shot]

25 minutes ago, Scully said:

Me? I would say a commercial shoot is any which sells shooting for money, whatever the quarry species. 
You still haven’t answered my question by the way; where have you got the information from that not many game dealers are taking steel shot game either? 

Chatting to a guy on saturday who'd been shooting on two estates that had gone all steel this year. He reckoned one still had nearly 800 birds in the chiller uncollected, they're still shooting twice a week wondering what to do with them. The other basicly giving them away.

I guess i started on a commercial shoot then, it is a family shoot, that sell a day or peg or two to ease the pain.

As to killing BOP i think more are killed on roads, certainly one spot near me, a (Dual Carriageway with a good rabbit population), you can find plenty of BOP carcasses .

[Newbie to this]

 

5 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

He reckoned one still had nearly 800 birds in the chiller uncollected, they're still shooting twice a week wondering what to do with them. The other basicly giving them away.

I take it Botham's idea didn't take off then?

[8 shot]

7 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I take it Botham's idea didn't take off then?

Which was ? Just looked on Waitrose Webpage no game, lots of venison

Edited November 15, 2022 by 8 shot