Eley pro eco wads - awful!

[Poor Shot]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

It’s bad enough antis making spurious claims about commercial driven shooting, and I know they aren’t perfect, ( we’re all shooting for the enjoyment after all ) but when shooters make spurious claims that they can’t back up then it really annoys me.
You stated there are ‘ countless commercial shoots which sell out year after year on the basis of offering 100 yd presentations’, and I’ve asked you to name them, which you haven't. Nothing to do with opinion, YOU made the claim that there are shoots doing so year after year, but now you claim these shoots aren’t ‘actively advertising that they can present birds at 100 yds’.
So you don’t actually know; you just got burned for criticism over a 60 yd shot so thought you’d justify it by making a spurious claim there were others doing worse. 🤷‍♂️

Pedantic it is then Scully? 

I'm not overly bothered by some disagreement by the forum 'regulars' if that's what you think. The point was that the days of your ounce of english 7's, a classic SxS and being tutted at by your neighboring peg for taking a bird at 45 yards are over. You can quite easily pay for a day on an Ultra High Bird shoot where the only limitation is your own ability to hit what you're shooting at. 

Spend some time watching Dave Carries Youtube channel. It will blow your mind if you feel you need to vent at someone for taking a duck at 60 yards. You may just need a second keyboard for the voracity at which you'll be scathing him in comments section. 

I'm only disappointed that in the last 24 hours nobody has written about pellets in a 30" circle and that whole boring palaver. 

[8 shot]

I would imagine your regular pigeon shooter get presented with plenty of 80 to 100 yard shots during the coarse of a good day on the pigeons. Doesn’t have to be over your head. I’ve shot hundreds of pigeons with Winchester Winners 8s which I think were actually 1 oz 71/2s some well past 60 yards, pattern rules 

[neutron619]

Quote

I'm only disappointed that in the last 24 hours nobody has written about pellets in a 30" circle and that whole boring palaver. 

I once laid slug pellets around a rose bush I'm quite fond of, in a 30" circle, with some success. Can't say very much about the pattern, but the quarry was killed well enough, at any distance you care to mention.

Edited December 5, 2022 by neutron619

[holloway]

Consistent  clean kills at 60 yards is very difficult with a shotgun and clean kills is what we should all be looking to achieve, we have all seen the clowns blasting away at distant targets with the odd one fluked down by an odd pellet.

If you can consistently kill at long ranges with the right equipment well done but can you honestly say your average kill to  cartridge ratio doesn’t go down .

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, holloway said:

Consistent  clean kills at 60 yards is very difficult with a shotgun and clean kills is what we should all be looking to achieve, we have all seen the clowns blasting away at distant targets with the odd one fluked down by an odd pellet.

If you can consistently kill at long ranges with the right equipment well done but can you honestly say your average kill to  cartridge ratio doesn’t go down .

I presume you mean 60 yards with the typical 30 gram game load…? Yes certainly 60 yards is not consistently realistic - more like 45 to 50 tops. Try patterning 1 1/2 oz 4s or 3s. They really do the business on geese at 60 yards. Although admittedly the target size is much bigger than a pheasant. 

[holloway]

34 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I presume you mean 60 yards with the typical 30 gram game load…? Yes certainly 60 yards is not consistently realistic - more like 45 to 50 tops. Try patterning 1 1/2 oz 4s or 3s. They really do the business on geese at 60 yards. Although admittedly the target size is much bigger than a pheasant. 

Not long returned from a trip to the Tay ,every  flight I watched the cripples limping around  the mud no longer able to fly   the result of your 60 yard plus brigade I sent the dog to retrieve one it was thin as a rake half starved with a smashed wing I ended its suffering.

 On one particular evening flight we counted 31 shots for no geese in the bag but how many were hit ? Poor shooting or your 60 + yarders ? I oz or 1 1/2 oz it matters not it causes  more wounding than sticking to responsible shotgun ranges and that should be good enough reason not to do it.

[flippermaj]

Well said that man!  Fed up to the back teeth of folk shooting at out of range geese.  Not unusual for them to fire off a dozen shots for one unlucky goose in the bag.

Personally and each to their own, I only take a dozen goose carts down the sea wall as limit myself to 5 or 6 max (not that that happens to often!) and if I can’t do that with 12 carts I shouldn’t be shooting at em!

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

Not long returned from a trip to the Tay ,every  flight I watched the cripples limping around  the mud no longer able to fly   the result of your 60 yard plus brigade I sent the dog to retrieve one it was thin as a rake half starved with a smashed wing I ended its suffering.

 On one particular evening flight we counted 31 shots for no geese in the bag but how many were hit ? Poor shooting or your 60 + yarders ? I oz or 1 1/2 oz it matters not it causes  more wounding than sticking to responsible shotgun ranges and that should be good enough reason not to do it.

 

 

There’s nothing more tedious than a load of sanctimonious ‘holier than thou’ clap trap!

If you can’t kill something the size of a goose at 60 yards with 1 1/2 oz of lead through a decent 3/4 choke, then I would suggest shooting school….or take up golf. Further, I was referring to inland shooting with lead. You have referenced a foreshore scenario, likely to involve steel shot. Not really that comparable I’m afraid. I wouldn’t lift my gun to a 60 yarder with steel. 

Also I didn’t actually write “60 yards plus”. Clearly I regard 60 yards as the limit. 

One thing I can agree on is the the unacceptable wounding behaviour of these marsh cowboys. They are likely to be shooting beyond the limits of their ballistic capabilities…..with steel..!! I too have been there and seen it with my own eyes. 

1 hour ago, flippermaj said:

Well said that man!  Fed up to the back teeth of folk shooting at out of range geese.  Not unusual for them to fire off a dozen shots for one unlucky goose in the bag.

Personally and each to their own, I only take a dozen goose carts down the sea wall as limit myself to 5 or 6 max (not that that happens to often!) and if I can’t do that with 12 carts I shouldn’t be shooting at em!

Steel then..??

[holloway]

1 hour ago, Fellside said:

There’s nothing more tedious than a load of sanctimonious ‘holier than thou’ clap trap!

If you can’t kill something the size of a goose at 60 yards with 1 1/2 oz of lead through a decent 3/4 choke, then I would suggest shooting school….or take up golf. Further, I was referring to inland shooting with lead. You have referenced a foreshore scenario, likely to involve steel shot. Not really that comparable I’m afraid. I wouldn’t lift my gun to a 60 yarder with steel. 

Also I didn’t actually write “60 yards plus”. Clearly I regard 60 yards as the limit. 

One thing I can agree on is the the unacceptable wounding behaviour of these marsh cowboys. They are likely to be shooting beyond the limits of their ballistic capabilities…..with steel..!! I too have been there and seen it with my own eyes. 

Steel then..??

Steel or lead makes no difference  …if you are happy to keep blasting away at 60  yard targets good luck to you  it will keep your dog fit chasing down the  runners, I will continue in my sanctimonious holier than thou clap trap way to restricting myself to reasonable ranges and ethical responsible shooting .There was a day 60 yards was considered stretching it even for a 10 bore .

2 hours ago, flippermaj said:

Well said that man!  Fed up to the back teeth of folk shooting at out of range geese.  Not unusual for them to fire off a dozen shots for one unlucky goose in the bag.

Personally and each to their own, I only take a dozen goose carts down the sea wall as limit myself to 5 or 6 max (not that that happens to often!) and if I can’t do that with 12 carts I shouldn’t be shooting at em!

Sadly I fear after reading this thread we are exceptions or as quoted by Fellside spouting sanctimonious clap trap. 

[Fellside]

2 minutes ago, holloway said:

Steel or lead makes no difference  …if you are happy to keep blasting away at 60  yard targets good luck to you  it will keep your dog fit chasing down the  runners, I will continue in my sanctimonious holier than thou clap trap way to restricting myself to reasonable ranges and ethical responsible shooting .There was a day 60 yards was considered stretching it even for a 10 bore .

I helped put on a let day (mainly high pheasants) a few weeks ago. Two of the gun team regularly shot birds of 50 to 60 yards. Not silly extreme, just good birds. The rest didn’t really try for the very tall stuff. They were content with the average birds and shot within their limits - commendable. However, the guns who could kill the tall stuff weren’t lectured by the rest!

P.S Try patterning 1 1/2 oz of lead 4s at 60 yards through a Teague 3/4. You will realise it is is more capable and consistent than you’re shooting ever will be. 

[Fellside]

“Steel or lead makes no difference”…...??? 

[Charliedog]

10 hours ago, holloway said:

Not long returned from a trip to the Tay ,every  flight I watched the cripples limping around  the mud no longer able to fly   the result of your 60 yard plus brigade I sent the dog to retrieve one it was thin as a rake half starved with a smashed wing I ended its suffering.

 On one particular evening flight we counted 31 shots for no geese in the bag but how many were hit ? Poor shooting or your 60 + yarders ? I oz or 1 1/2 oz it matters not it causes  more wounding than sticking to responsible shotgun ranges and that should be good enough reason not to do it.

Who needs the anti brigade when we do such a good job on social media

[Scully]

18 hours ago, Poor Shot said:

Pedantic it is then Scully? 

I'm not overly bothered by some disagreement by the forum 'regulars' if that's what you think. The point was that the days of your ounce of english 7's, a classic SxS and being tutted at by your neighboring peg for taking a bird at 45 yards are over. You can quite easily pay for a day on an Ultra High Bird shoot where the only limitation is your own ability to hit what you're shooting at. 

Spend some time watching Dave Carries Youtube channel. It will blow your mind if you feel you need to vent at someone for taking a duck at 60 yards. You may just need a second keyboard for the voracity at which you'll be scathing him in comments section. 

I'm only disappointed that in the last 24 hours nobody has written about pellets in a 30" circle and that whole boring palaver. 

I couldn’t care less what you want to call me; if being a pedant is asking someone to back up a statement they made then so be it. 
It would seem you are overly bothered as you apologised and said you would take the info’ on board. 🤷‍♂️ Anyhow, that’s by the by. 
I’ve watched plenty of Carries shooting outings, mostly to see if there’s anyone I recognise, but they’re very repetitive and his presentation of his films is atrocious.
You’ve clearly got the wrong end of the stick however, as I wasn’t criticising your 60yd shot, but rather your attempts at deflecting criticism for it from others, by making claims you can’t back up about driven commercial shoots. I’m a big supporter of shooting in all its forms, and it annoys me when others who shoot, point hypocritical fingers at other shooters or disciplines. 
Shooting high or extreme birds isn’t illegal, and if you’ve got the gear to go with the skill then it’s up to you. Some may frown upon it but some frown on killing for entertainment too, regardless of range, so there you go. You pays your money and takes your choice. 

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, Charliedog said:

Who needs the anti brigade when we do such a good job on social media

Exactly…!!

[holloway]

15 hours ago, Fellside said:

I helped put on a let day (mainly high pheasants) a few weeks ago. Two of the gun team regularly shot birds of 50 to 60 yards. Not silly extreme, just good birds. The rest didn’t really try for the very tall stuff. They were content with the average birds and shot within their limits - commendable. However, the guns who could kill the tall stuff weren’t lectured by the rest!

P.S Try patterning 1 1/2 oz of lead 4s at 60 yards through a Teague 3/4. You will realise it is is more capable and consistent than you’re shooting ever will be. 

Your ps at the bottom of this says everything I am talking about.

8 hours ago, Charliedog said:

Who needs the anti brigade when we do such a good job on social media

It’s happening all the time ,why not admit it and try to educate the people who are doing it ? Worth noting it doesn’t happen were there are areas that are wardened and permits are needed.

[Sweet11-87]

are these forums not moderated anymore? 2 days and 2 pages of posts of complete detrailment and attacks...

whats the point?. hes clearly stated  most shots were within 30ish yards and ONE was at 60 which he downed the bird.. when did it just become acceptible to just slag people off? nobody everlost a bird they hit before?. Every topic goes this way once it passes the 3 page mark. its pretty toxic. supposed to be a place for like minded folks to debate and discuss. worse than facebook this.

[Fellside]

1 hour ago, holloway said:

Your ps at the bottom of this says everything I am talking about.

Far from supporting your sanctimonious rant, my PS refutes everything you’re talking about - and is evidence based. It also refers to lead….!! Oh sorry, of course, “steel or lead makes no difference”…..right?!

Your main misunderstanding arises from repeatedly referring to foreshore fowling with steel - when I am clearly talking about inland shooting with lead. If you want to grump about the marsh cowboys shooting at stuff out of range,  fine, but my shooting and the way I go about it, couldn’t be more different. Now go and troll somebody else!

[Fellside]

11 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

are these forums not moderated anymore? 2 days and 2 pages of posts of complete detrailment and attacks...

whats the point?. hes clearly stated  most shots were within 30ish yards and ONE was at 60 which he downed the bird.. when did it just become acceptible to just slag people off? nobody everlost a bird they hit before?. Every topic goes this way once it passes the 3 page mark. its pretty toxic. supposed to be a place for like minded folks to debate and discuss. worse than facebook this.

Yes agreed, however in my case (ref’ this thread), if I am attacked for perfectly reasonable musings or shooting practices, it’s natural and fair to defend one’s actions. I find the catalyst is often a classic grumpy ‘have a go’ merchant, who has undergone full diplomacy bypass surgery. How do you stop them….? They are all over social media I’m afraid.

[holloway]

32 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Far from supporting your sanctimonious rant, my PS refutes everything you’re talking about - and is evidence based. It also refers to lead….!! Oh sorry, of course, “steel or lead makes no difference”…..right?!

Your main misunderstanding arises from repeatedly referring to foreshore fowling with steel - when I am clearly talking about inland shooting with lead. If you want to grump about the marsh cowboys shooting at stuff out of range,  fine, but my shooting and the way I go about it, couldn’t be more different. Now go and troll somebody else!

Ok .

44 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

are these forums not moderated anymore? 2 days and 2 pages of posts of complete detrailment and attacks...

whats the point?. hes clearly stated  most shots were within 30ish yards and ONE was at 60 which he downed the bird.. when did it just become acceptible to just slag people off? nobody everlost a bird they hit before?. Every topic goes this way once it passes the 3 page mark. its pretty toxic. supposed to be a place for like minded folks to debate and discuss. worse than facebook this.

Fair point ,apologies for my part .

[Scully]

Despite some of the claims on here, picked up loads of 20 bore Eley VIP Pro Eco steel on BIG shoot following last day here, mostly 24g 4’s. 

They are highly rated by some apparently. 

[motty]

On 25/11/2022 at 08:20, Jimbo yorks said:

To cure the problem I've asked someone I know who's in the business.

Got myself some 32 gram 4 in 3" flavour doing about 1600 fps.

That should bring them down!

Speed kills with steel in general. If I knew the eleys were that slow I would never of purchased them.

Velocities of 1600fps are really not necessary. All you are really gaining is increased recoil. 1400fps is more than enough for steel loads.

[motty]

On 05/12/2022 at 13:26, Poor Shot said:

Pedantic it is then Scully? 

I'm not overly bothered by some disagreement by the forum 'regulars' if that's what you think. The point was that the days of your ounce of english 7's, a classic SxS and being tutted at by your neighboring peg for taking a bird at 45 yards are over. You can quite easily pay for a day on an Ultra High Bird shoot where the only limitation is your own ability to hit what you're shooting at. 

Spend some time watching Dave Carries Youtube channel. It will blow your mind if you feel you need to vent at someone for taking a duck at 60 yards. You may just need a second keyboard for the voracity at which you'll be scathing him in comments section. 

I'm only disappointed that in the last 24 hours nobody has written about pellets in a 30" circle and that whole boring palaver. 

I disagree completely. The limitation is not that of the man holding the gun, but generally a failure at range of shotgun pellet pattern. 100 yard kills are the result of lucky pellet strikes (even though the bird could be in the centre of the pattern), more often resulting in wounding than clean kills.

I see a lot of good shooting on the high bird videos (mainly no higher than 60 yard birds), but I wince/cringe when I witness the wounded birds. 

[rbrowning2]

On 25/11/2022 at 08:20, Jimbo yorks said:

To cure the problem I've asked someone I know who's in the business.

Got myself some 32 gram 4 in 3" flavour doing about 1600 fps.

That should bring them down!

Speed kills with steel in general. If I knew the eleys were that slow I would never of purchased them.

Jimbo 1600 fps where is that measured at? as no CIP Superior high performance steel commercial cartridge is allowed to be faster than 1400fps at 2.5mtrs otherwise it does not comply with CIP or that’s as I understand it. So which did you get and where was the velocity stated.

Standard steel is 1300 fps.

 

 

[Jimbo yorks]

2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Jimbo 1600 fps where is that measured at? as no CIP Superior high performance steel commercial cartridge is allowed to be faster than 1400fps at 2.5mtrs otherwise it does not comply with CIP or that’s as I understand it. So which did you get and where was the velocity stated.

Standard steel is 1300 fps.

 

 

They were homeloads,

Data taken from the manual I have, it's a non CIP load being an American book and as such they have no velocity restriction imposed on them.

Have to admit I thought the velocity was high but that's what the books states so that's my only source.

What I can say is the are bloody brilliant on the duck. Had a few flights out with them and the kills are nothing like steel ive shot with before.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Jimbo yorks said:

They were homeloads,

Data taken from the manual I have, it's a non CIP load being an American book and as such they have no velocity restriction imposed on them.

Have to admit I thought the velocity was high but that's what the books states so that's my only source.

What I can say is the are bloody brilliant on the duck. Had a few flights out with them and the kills are nothing like steel ive shot with before.

What the Yanks figured out was that 32g in 3inch or 28g in 2.75 inch doing 1600ft/sec did a lot better than 36g in 3 inch and 32g in 2.7inch doing 1300/1400 ft/sec.

As long as the pressure is this side of reasonable, velocity does help steel.