ditchman Posted November 21, 2022 Report Share Posted November 21, 2022 just had to put it out there...not expecting a thread from it ...i was just so gobsmacked................reported via mainstream media this morning....as a side fact as a result of the report on the attack on a gay night club.....it was almost a throw-a-way remark This year to date (november) over 39,500......yeah 39 THOUSAND have died as a result of gun violence in USA...as i said todate.... i know USA is a big country ....but woooww.......thats alot of gun violence...thats like a small dirty war...and the clock is still clicking to the end of December... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 Well there plenty of them mericans. On the football tonight the said that there was 330 MILLION of them SO the slaughter per millon ain't so great. There were charts published next to that club shooting and there are a lot more suicides than homicides. It's still far too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) This figure will include those who committed suicide by firearm and those shot dead by the police or other law enforcement agencies. Also included will be those shot dead by private homeowners exercising a right of lawful self defence. Also it will not show the many many more who by revealing that they were armed were able to prevent criminals assaulting them or their property. Included however will be those killed in shooting or hunting accidents of which in France with mandatory shooting tests there are many. But in UK with no mandatory shooting tests relatively few if any. America is America and their circumstances are theirs. As with our nearest neighbour France. The figures are seemingly shocking yes. But alone neither per se wholly condemn nor wholly condone America's gun laws. Edited November 22, 2022 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, enfieldspares said: This figure will include those who committed suicide by firearm and those shot dead by the police or other law enforcement agencies. Also included will be those shot dead by private homeowners exercising a right of lawful self defence. Also it will not show the many many more who by revealing that they were armed were able to prevent criminals assaulting them or their property. Included however will be those killed in shooting or hunting accidents of which in France with mandatory shooting tests there are many. But in UK with no mandatory shooting tests relatively few if any. America is America and their circumstances are theirs. As with our nearest neighbour France. The figures are seemingly shocking yes. But alone neither per se wholly condemn nor wholly condone America's gun laws. 'supose it just shows the inaccuracy / accuracy of stats'.....they are 100% right and at the same time 100% wrong....its the question thats needs to be addressed..the right question for the right answer.....so if you seperate out the 39 thousand into its right catorgaries....the figures would look less shocking.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 And that figures just the ones that they know about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted November 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 3 minutes ago, sam triple said: And that figures just the ones that they know about the news services must thrive on "stats'".............they provide the so called figures and allow the audiance to draw their own conclusion...so who is in the wrong then ? its all very dodgy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, ditchman said: the news services must thrive on "stats'".............they provide the so called figures and allow the audiance to draw their own conclusion...so who is in the wrong then ? its all very dodgy... A quick search provides a pretty good explanation from the Beeb, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081.amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 hours ago, ditchman said: the news services must thrive on "stats'".............they provide the so called figures and allow the audiance to draw their own conclusion...so who is in the wrong then ? its all very dodgy... I’m sure there’s plenty that go missing through foul play ( drugs, gangs etc ) that never get reported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 Even filtering out the various reasons, it’s still one hell of a lot. The suicide element is the reason why you cannot ‘rent a gun’ as a solo shooter at the gun ranges in Orlando. Was there the other week and as I couldn’t persuade the wife or my young children to accompany me, was faced with the same at each range. No ‘solo’ shooters due to the amount of suicides. Eventually I went back to one that I last visited in 2003. The Shooting Gallery. Every punter through the door, was viewed with the same suspicion ( a common theme at each range/shop). Anyway, after a chat I was entering the range facility with a full auto AR accompanied by an RO. However. After some banter and the first of a few mags, I was left to it and he attended to others coming onto the range. So, if you’re over there and wish to shoot handguns/semis or full autos then that’s your place. Just beware of the costs, it’s super expensive over there now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 Son in law has a place down in the middle of France and when the shooting season starts the great majority of people do not go outside at all. I don't know how long it is like that but apparently the loons are shooting at everything that moves, and this is with firearms. What goes up must come down and that lncludes a 308 shot at a sparrow on a telephone wire. It can't be as silly as that can it? He says that all of the shooters have to wear hi vis vests.. why.? Surely They should identify The target before pulling the trigger, although I did hear of a bloke who shot his own dog on a fox shoot and saw another bloke shoot into cover at a target that wasn't identified. Needless to say he was given a right stripping down and was never asked to another shoot. A bit late though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 5 hours ago, Minky said: Well there plenty of them mericans. On the football tonight the said that there was 330 MILLION of them SO the slaughter per millon ain't so great. There were charts published next to that club shooting and there are a lot more suicides than homicides. It's still far too many. They include EVERY death from gunshot not just criminal, so accidental, suicide are also included. As said it sounds a lot but a lot of folk out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, Minky said: Son in law has a place down in the middle of France and when the shooting season starts the great majority of people do not go outside at all. I don't know how long it is like that but apparently the loons are shooting at everything that moves, and this is with firearms. What goes up must come down and that lncludes a 308 shot at a sparrow on a telephone wire. It can't be as silly as that can it? He says that all of the shooters have to wear hi vis vests.. why.? Surely They should identify The target before pulling the trigger, although I did hear of a bloke who shot his own dog on a fox shoot and saw another bloke shoot into cover at a target that wasn't identified. Needless to say he was given a right stripping down and was never asked to another shoot. A bit late though. It's like that in Upstate New York during deer season. People send their kids away to stay with relatives in the city and bring their animals into the barn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 10 hours ago, henry d said: A quick search provides a pretty good explanation from the Beeb, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081.amp Loathe as I am to trust anything the BBC* publishes or broadcasts, 25'000 suicides in 2020? Seems the biggest investment the US could make in preventing 'gun violence' is addressing the availability or otherwise of mental health care. Of course, we mustn't forget what happened in 2020. I wonder what more 'normal' years look like? *For instance, later in the article, they fall into the classic trap of talking about various states banning "assault weapons" without even bothering to define the term, let alone the debate around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) Here's a worse statistic than that, from 1999 - 2010 us veterans we're committing suicide at a rate of 22 A DAY!!! Most by a firearm. Edited November 22, 2022 by Rem260 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, Rem260 said: Here's a worse statistic than that, from 1999 - 2010 us veterans we're committing suicide at a rate of 22 A DAY!!! Most by a firearm. And that’s where the lack of mental health care plays it’s part. It is almost non-existent in the states according to two journalists I listened to on the radio some years ago following a school shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 Lies, damned lies and statistics. Over 45K in 2021 Gun control would not stop most of those deaths, they just wouldn't be gun deaths! As i understand it around 54% of the gun deaths in the us are suicide and second highest are gangs shooting each other 720 died in mass shooting and mass murders. not sure what the difference is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 No matter The cause or reason every number is a person. It's such a waste. It's a bit like all of the young lads over here who get knifed due to being in a gang or just in the wrong place at the wrong time or the people who were killed in Ireland in the troubles. Apart from those close to the victims/ other Who remembers.? Who knew/knows my grandfather who was killed in the first world war. Still if there wasn't a continued cull of humans how would the human race survive being shoulder to shoulder. Eating ourselves out of house and home living in our own excrement and disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Minky said: Still if there wasn't a continued cull of humans how would the human race survive being shoulder to shoulder. Eating ourselves out of house and home living in our own excrement and disease. Ooooh, no, no, no. Until the industrial revolution we were pretty much subsisting as hairless monkeys, after the industrial revolution we went skywards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minky Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 MONKEYS.? !!! Not monkeys. Are they some of the 4 monkeys up three and a half sticks.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 22, 2022 Report Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scully said: And that’s where the lack of mental health care plays it’s part. It is almost non-existent in the states according to two journalists I listened to on the radio some years ago following a school shooting. All sorts of health care platforms are missing in the states. Mental health is only one. People don't expect or get help except often from the church. That's why so many people belong to churches over there. It's insurance. But saying that churches are often the hubs of the local community. Providing all the support from baby groups to elderly care through scouts, junior football /baseball to functions and shows and care of the sick and the elderly Edited November 22, 2022 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 Small price to pay for diversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 7 hours ago, Scully said: And that’s where the lack of mental health care plays it’s part. It is almost non-existent in the states according to two journalists I listened to on the radio some years ago following a school shooting. If you want a really good look at mental health care in the US v UK, Pure Madness: How Fear Drives the Mental Health System by Jeremy Laurence is a sobering read. It's written for the casual reader but is essential for an understanding of the situation IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 And another mass shooting overnight in Chesapeake. Apparently the shooter was the store manager who shot and killed himself [according to news reports this morning]. Top yourself if you have to, but take other's [innocent] lives with you ?! 🤨 Isn't there a member on here from that location ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 Just now, JKD said: And another mass shooting overnight in Chesapeake. Apparently the shooter was the store manager who shot and killed himself [according to news reports this morning]. Top yourself if you have to, but take other's [innocent] lives with you ?! 🤨 Isn't there a member on here from that location ? Sim c gunner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted November 23, 2022 Report Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Jaymo said: Sim c gunner? That's the fellow,,,, cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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