24 hours in Police Custody. Ch.4 documentary.

[Rim Fire]

12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Maybe we can scrap vanity projects like HS2, that next to no one wants or needs.

Oh and of course foreign 'aid'

What benefits will this project have something like getting to London 30 minutes earlier it will have no benefits to Wales at all and all the upset to the compulsory purchase orders woodlands destroyed i think that amount of money could have  should have been spent elsewhere 

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

I saw the TV program.

My view…. not that long ago when London was plagued by gangs of robbers on mopeds, the police were given powers / the green light to drive into them and to knock them off in pursuit of an arrest.

Here, Mr White was pursuing escaping criminals (on a stolen motor bike) to perform a citizen’s arrest. No difference in my book and don’t give me all that specialist police training nonsense - when it comes to knocking someone off a motor bike all bets are off.

All the shrugging about how the bloke had it coming because he advertised a dirt bike on Facebook - victim blaming. Give your head a wobble. 

And all the shrugging that it was only a bit of burglary and they should have been allowed to escape and because burglary is somehow now just one of those things we all have to live with. Really?

And the end result - two victims of crime receive justice and one criminal sent to prison. The problem is the two victims were, are and always will be career criminals with a police record longer than your arm and the convicted criminal was a working family man with no previous criminal record.

Anyway, I sent Mrs White’s crowd funder some money (the money is directed to Mr White’s wife because the thieves are now suing him for personal injury).

fundraiser link here:

https://gofund.me/6aeeef3d

 

 

.

Thanks for putting up the link.

[oowee]

Vat on private school fees, non dom tax, social care levy and windfall tax on energy, fuel duty escalator, income tax on dividends, increase class 4 NIC for the self employedand we are largely sorted.

I for one am happy to pay more, for more but at the moment I am paying an awful lot more for an awful lot less. 

[udderlyoffroad]

22 hours ago, Westley said:

Well certainly in America you do NOT get intruders in your yard (garden) they just shoot them.

This tarr-all-with-one-brush untruth again...

 

17 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

I agree with this but unfortunately we would be like one of them prisons in Mexico ten deep in every cell 

17 hours ago, oowee said:

And we would need a police force to manage it, together with a judiciary to process it. 

I just don't agree that we have insufficient resources.  Despite recent "cuts", there are still more police officers per head of population than ever.  Seemingly the police have infinite resources to investigate nasty tweets, for instance.  Hence my suggestion for a 'broken windows' policy, initial direction of resources needs to go towards a different area.  This could be done tomorrow, without the need for more money or a change in legislation.

Same goes for the judiciary and the prison system.  Apparently we can deny people their liberty for nasty tweets or failing to pay their TV licence, and the courts will gladly make time for that.  There are currently 40 prison places being taken up by people who refused to pay their TV licence.  What abject nonsense is that, in 2022?

 

38 minutes ago, oowee said:

I for one am happy to pay more,

You said it...

[Yellow Bear]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

2 hours ago, oowee said:

The joke / scandal lies at the door of the Tories

I don't think this is just a tory joke/scandal, I think this has been a failure of governments for many decades.

Edited 2 hours ago by Newbie to this

Correct - much of the blame is attributable to the last liebour party whose policy was to import much of the many missing specialists.  Let us not forget it takes 10 plus years to train a doctor and that is after the uni@s have created the training places .

[Westley]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

This tarr-all-with-one-brush untruth again...

 

 

Not really,  I am citing the Officer I was out on patrol with in USA.  I see no reason for him to lie  !

[Mungler]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Vat on private school fees, non dom tax, social care levy and windfall tax on energy, fuel duty escalator, income tax on dividends, increase class 4 NIC for the self employedand we are largely sorted.

I for one am happy to pay more, for more but at the moment I am paying an awful lot more for an awful lot less. 

 

VAT on private school fees will see the state school system overwhelmed.

Non dom tax will just see the super rich leave. It's all very emotive, but the bottom line is the super rich have more time and money for lawyers than the government. A simplification of the tax system would be better but it doesn't appease the jealous left.

Windfall tax on energy, that's a one off and signals to large corporates not to locate to the UK because you're profits are at risk.

Income tax on dividends will wreck the city of London.

NIC on the self employed, very unpopular and has to come from somewhere - either a reduction in payments into pensions or price increases.

No one sane ever said they would be happy to pay more tax. Any assumption that the government will make anything better simply simply by being provided with more money is the most ridiculous and naive thing I've seen this year.

For example, if we poured another billion pounds into the NHS we wouldn't notice any difference; hell call it an extra £10billion. It's so badly run. A massive white elephant that is like a leaky money bucket and everyone's solution is to pour in more money. It's currently @ £200billion a year and employs a couple of million people. We're not all living to a hundred and we're again told the NHS is on its knees. Seriously, if we can't get it to run on £200 billion a year then at what point do we call "time"? And this is the same for every single government run project or scheme, because if you give someone of something someone else's money, they spend it like it's not theirs...

[Rewulf]

15 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I would add however that had those low lives not decided to break the law in the first place, none of it would of happened. I'd like to see a system that blame criminals for the instigating action rather than say a police officer for not breaking off a persuit, or a man trying to recover his stolen property. 

Such a system exists , it just depends on the judge presiding....

20 years ago , a good friend of mine was killed by the owner of a demolition yard whilst attempting to break in.

He was never a 'bad' lad, he lost his way through heroin addiction in the late 90s , and associating with thieving travellers, who sent him on missions to fund his habit, no excuse I know, but he was never the scumbag type, he came from a very well respected family.
I do believe the yard they were going to rob had been hit hard for small items of plant and tools , quite possibly by himself previously, but this time the owner was waiting as he climbed over the fence.
The owner hacked at his legs with a small axe as he lowered himself over, he screamed and was pulled back over by his accomplices , driven to hospital , and dumped outside A + E , he died a few days later from organ failure caused by blood loss and sepsis from the dirty axe.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/STAB+BOSS+FREED%3B+Judge+rules+killing+of+burglar+could+be+accident.-a0103183987

The yard owner was charged with murder initially , then manslaughter to which he pleaded not guilty, and was cleared.
Saying afterwards, if he hadnt tried to rob me, he wouldnt be dead, he also said it was self defence, which was complete rubbish , but the other 2 lads there wouldnt testify , so he could really say what he liked , and with no one to contest it , that was that.

Im not saying he was wrong to defend his property, he was frustrated with the lack of police support on previous break ins , so literally took the law into his own hands, and came out a bit of a local hero.
Could have been completely different though, like this man  https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/sep/11/stevenmorris but thats life I suppose ?

 

 

[oowee]

55 minutes ago, Mungler said:

 

VAT on private school fees will see the state school system overwhelmed. I doubt that would be the case looking at the fees which are unbridled. Maybe a few less trips to far continents for the kids. 

Non dom tax will just see the super rich leave. It's all very emotive, but the bottom line is the super rich have more time and money for lawyers than the government. A simplification of the tax system would be better but it doesn't appease the jealous left. Not according to the analysis done. 

Windfall tax on energy, that's a one off and signals to large corporates not to locate to the UK because you're profits are at risk. Thats been happening with Brexit to maintain market access. The majority of the firms are already owned internationally in the case of energy. 

Income tax on dividends will wreck the city of London. London is no longer number one thanks to the decline of the UK economy. Dividends are subject to local taxation subject to domicile. Many businesses pay directors dividend and a salary below tax rates. A loophole that should close. 

NIC on the self employed, very unpopular and has to come from somewhere - either a reduction in payments into pensions or price increases. True but the self employed should not get cheaper pensions and services than the employed.

No one sane ever said they would be happy to pay more tax. Any assumption that the government will make anything better simply simply by being provided with more money is the most ridiculous and naive thing I've seen this. You get what you pay for but i would agree it should not be a limitless pot we have to learn to say no. 

For example, if we poured another billion pounds into the NHS we wouldn't notice any difference; hell call it an extra £10billion. It's so badly run. A massive white elephant that is like a leaky money bucket and everyone's solution is to pour in more money. It's currently @ £200billion a year and employs a couple of million people. We're not all living to a hundred and we're again told the NHS is on its knees. Seriously, if we can't get it to run on £200 billion a year then at what point do we call "time"? And this is the same for every single government run project or scheme, because if you give someone of something someone else's money, they spend it like it's not theirs... The NHS should have a rethink including assisted dying and care limited care limits. Unfortunately its a toxic sacred cow. 

 

[discobob]

17 minutes ago, oowee said:

You get what you pay for but i would agree it should not be a limitless pot we have to learn to say no. 

Should that not apply to the uncontrolled "immigration" that we have - something that you seem to support albeit indirectly on the threads about that matter

 

22 minutes ago, oowee said:

Many businesses pay directors dividend and a salary below tax rates. A loophole that should close. 

A loophole that is closing - however, these directors (not all) will bring a lot of money in and may go on to employ other people who won't be directors and will benefit the public purse, and those Dividends will be taxed at Corporation tax levels

 

24 minutes ago, oowee said:

Not according to the analysis done. 

I have seen analysis that the moon is made of cheese!!! The fact is that a chunk will leave

[oowee]

11 minutes ago, discobob said:

Should that not apply to the uncontrolled "immigration" that we have - something that you seem to support albeit indirectly on the threads about that matter

I have seen analysis that the moon is made of cheese!!! The fact is that a chunk will leave

Absolutely right. We don't pay for a properly resourced immigration or migration system and we have uncontrolled migration.  

I have no idea what you read in your spare time maybe a more enlightened reading list would help? 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Absolutely right. We don't pay for a properly resourced immigration or migration system and we have uncontrolled migration.  

Really ?
Weve had uncontrolled immigration since blair announced to the world that the UK wouldnt be controlling immigration anymore.
The civil service in charge of that policy seems to still be there, so it doesnt matter what the tories say or do , as the implementation is largely ignored.

[discobob]

42 minutes ago, oowee said:

I have no idea what you read in your spare time maybe a more enlightened reading list would help?

Pigeonwatch - are you saying it isn't enlightening on here 😆

 

[shaun4860]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Vat on private school fees, non dom tax, social care levy and windfall tax on energy, fuel duty escalator, income tax on dividends, increase class 4 NIC for the self employedand we are largely sorted.

I for one am happy to pay more, for more but at the moment I am paying an awful lot more for an awful lot less. 

You can’t tax your way out of trouble

All those that think that taxing the rich more is the best way out of austerity, read on.

For those of you reciting the 'Tories defend the rich' argument, read this. It's worth it, I assure you.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100...
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7..
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do..

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So the first four men were unaffected.

They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men?
The paying customers?

How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realised that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).

The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).

The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).

The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a pound out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man.

He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got £10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a pound too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works.

The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction.

Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, shaun4860 said:

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

Amen to that 

[oowee]

So tell me why do we have the highest tax level of any govt since the war. Does the tax system seem fair to you? The gap between the richest and the poorest is wider than ever, 

2019 data

Britain’s total wealth grew by 13% in the two years to 2018 to reach a record £14.6tn, with wealth among the richest 10% of households increasing almost four times faster than those of the poorest 10%.

A study by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) also found that the poorest 10% of households had debts three times greater than their assets compared with the richest 10% who amassed a wealth pile 35 times larger than their total debts.

 

The figures highlight the growing divide between those at the top of the wealth ladder, many of whom have retained their pension rights, property values and invested their savings since the 2008 financial crash, while those on low incomes live in rented accommodation with meagre pension entitlements and rising debts

[old man]

8 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

We've been there for many years, but the rate at which prisons are built hasn't increased.

Just build more prisons, it's not rocket science, instead they decide to use house arrest etc. it's a joke/scandal.

Maybe HS2 is deemed more important in the anus of power than protecting its populace?

[shaun4860]

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

So tell me why do we have the highest tax level of any govt since the war. Does the tax system seem fair to you? The gap between the richest and the poorest is wider than ever, 

2019 data

Britain’s total wealth grew by 13% in the two years to 2018 to reach a record £14.6tn, with wealth among the richest 10% of households increasing almost four times faster than those of the poorest 10%.

A study by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) also found that the poorest 10% of households had debts three times greater than their assets compared with the richest 10% who amassed a wealth pile 35 times larger than their total debts.

 

The figures highlight the growing divide between those at the top of the wealth ladder, many of whom have retained their pension rights, property values and invested their savings since the 2008 financial crash, while those on low incomes live in rented accommodation with meagre pension entitlements and rising debts

Wrong

labour had it higher

It was and was famously the inspiration for The Beatles song 'Taxman' as a protest against the 95% "supertax" rate introduced by Harold Wilson's Labour governmentthat The Beatles themselves had to pay at the time.

[old'un]

17 minutes ago, oowee said:

So tell me why do we have the highest tax level of any govt since the war. Does the tax system seem fair to you? The gap between the richest and the poorest is wider than ever, 

2019 data

Britain’s total wealth grew by 13% in the two years to 2018 to reach a record £14.6tn, with wealth among the richest 10% of households increasing almost four times faster than those of the poorest 10%.

A study by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) also found that the poorest 10% of households had debts three times greater than their assets compared with the richest 10% who amassed a wealth pile 35 times larger than their total debts.

 

The figures highlight the growing divide between those at the top of the wealth ladder, many of whom have retained their pension rights, property values and invested their savings since the 2008 financial crash, while those on low incomes live in rented accommodation with meagre pension entitlements and rising debts

some people know how to make money and keep it, others just **** it up the wall, our society runs on people at the top and people at the bottom.

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, shaun4860 said:

Wrong

labour had it higher

It was and was famously the inspiration for The Beatles song 'Taxman' as a protest against the 95% "supertax" rate introduced by Harold Wilson's Labour governmentthat The Beatles themselves had to pay at the time.

 

I think you will find its correct. The following will bring you upto date.

The OBR ;- The tax burden rises from 33.1 per cent of GDP in 2019-20 to 37.1 per cent of GDP by 2027/28, a full percentage point higher than forecast by the OBR in March and its “highest sustained level since the Second World War.”

Statista

the express/

The Sun

Polotics uk

Accountancy daily

 

[old man]

7 hours ago, Rim Fire said:

What benefits will this project have something like getting to London 30 minutes earlier it will have no benefits to Wales at all and all the upset to the compulsory purchase orders woodlands destroyed i think that amount of money could have  should have been spent elsewhere 

That maybe was never the aim to help the populace, it was a way of shovelling almost unlimited funds to cronies?

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Britain’s total wealth grew by 13% in the two years to 2018 to reach a record £14.6tn, with wealth among the richest 10% of households increasing almost four times faster than those of the poorest 10%.

Well that cant be right can it , thats the 2 years after the Brexit vote, when Britains skies fell in , and we sailed over a 'cliff edge' into the abyss of poverty , while we waited for WW3 to break out in Europe ?

Damn that Farage for making the country richer 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

Well that cant be right can it , thats the 2 years after the Brexit vote, when Britains skies fell in , and we sailed over a 'cliff edge' into the abyss of poverty , while we waited for WW3 to break out in Europe ?

Damn that Farage for making the country richer 

 

Rewulf - please stop. We don't want facts clouding the issue. 🙂

 

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Rewulf - please stop. We don't want facts clouding the issue. 🙂

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Well that cant be right can it , thats the 2 years after the Brexit vote, when Britains skies fell in , and we sailed over a 'cliff edge' into the abyss of poverty , while we waited for WW3 to break out in Europe ?

Damn that Farage for making the country richer 

🙂