Pump action at a Clay ground

[TK421]

Whilst out shooting over Christmas at one of the clay grounds I ended up behind a squad of chaps obviously out shooting their new Xmas acquisitions one of which looked like a Hatsan Escort Pump shotgun. Group of 5 or so, after they’d all shot one chap stands back and says let’s give this a go. A few of them crowded the stand whilst they faffed about with this thing then began to shoot it. It seamed to jam up frequently and thus caused no end of more faffing about with the squad crowding the stand trying to sort the issues. By this time there were probably 20 or so waiting to shoot. They continued to faff and shoot and miss pretty much everything he shot at, by the time he’d pumped the next shot in the clays had hit the ground? Didn’t see the point to be honest. I was pretty relaxed about the whole thing to be fair, new toy and all that, but what I started to notice was he was loading 3 cartridges. It was at this point one of the old boys piped up saying he shouldn’t be loading 3 shots at a clay ground. I then rewound in my mind when they were all stood in the stand faffing that the gun was waved about, unbeknownst to me it quite possibly had the 3rd cart in it jammed up. All very sketchy to me. There were a few words exchanged by one of the group to a regular club member (which looked quite heated) and then they went off to another stand to continue there faff about.

what’s the etiquette at clay grounds regarding this. The old boys were quite adament that it’s a big no no to have 3 in a pump/semi  at a clay ground.

I gave it some though and thought it makes sense to only have 2 in the gun, as, well we shoot clays in pairs.

I don’t shoot a semi or pump but I’m quite sure at most grounds I’ve shot I’ve seen a 2 max cartridge rule in guns  

thoughts and experiences guys

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by TK421

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Sywell Range will not allow Pump Action Shotguns to be used on the ground due to a previous "incident".

Many grounds have signs up to say "Only 2 cartridges to be loaded at any one time.

People who do not know what they are doing are just accidents waiting to happen.

Avoid, we usually walk past this sort of group.

[Spr1985]

Most if not all of the clay grounds I’ve been to have it clearly stated in the club/ground rules that only two cartridges shall be loaded into semi/pump shotguns.  The only exception I have ever seen was at Hepworth hall for the ambassador auto competition and that’s because each stand has at least one set of three clays in the air at once. Although the likelihood of people reading the rules prior to shooting at each ground in my opinion is very low, therefore the group where no doubt oblivious of the rule. (No excuse) 

[TK421]

12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Sywell Range will not allow Pump Action Shotguns to be used on the ground due to a previous "incident".

Many grounds have signs up to say "Only 2 cartridges to be loaded at any one time.

People who do not know what they are doing are just accidents waiting to happen.

Avoid, we usually walk past this sort of group.

I was waiting to gauge opinion before I made further comment. I totally agree with this and kicking myself for not mentioning it to the someone in the club house. It definitely felt like amateur hour and as you said an accident waiting to happen. I genuinely wonder if some of these guys actually had licenses. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

10 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I was waiting to gauge opinion before I made further comment. I totally agree with this and kicking myself for not mentioning it to the someone in the club house. It definitely felt like amateur hour and as you said an accident waiting to happen. I genuinely wonder if some of these guys actually had licenses. 

Oh I'm sure at least one of them may well have had an SGC, bet he wanted to get out and show off in front of his mates.

[DUNKS]

Shooting ground gets its revenue from number of clays shot and possibly cartridges sold. Why should they complain at some numpty whanging off three at every clay? Or am I missing something.

 

[TK421]

21 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Oh I'm sure at least one of them may well have had an SGC, bet he wanted to get out and show off in front of his mates.

Was about to add that to the end of the comments. Wasn’t much showing off as they genuinely missed everything they shot at. 

11 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Shooting ground gets its revenue from number of clays shot and possibly cartridges sold. Why should they complain at some numpty whanging off three at every clay? Or am I missing something.

 

I think it’s more a saftey thing. You load 3 in the gun, then only shoot 2 targets. Now the gun is still loaded, hence the risk factor. What do you do with that? What about if you forget ? So many variables and possibilities for it to go wrong. Hence most grounds stating only 2 in the gun. Wildfowling etc different scenario 

Edited December 30, 2022 by TK421

[TIGHTCHOKE]

18 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Shooting ground gets its revenue from number of clays shot and possibly cartridges sold. Why should they complain at some numpty whanging off three at every clay? Or am I missing something.

 

You are!

[Gordon R]

Loading more than two in a pump or semi auto is just stupid. Why would anyone need to do it other than idiocy or cheating? 

Had a few words, many years ago, at Quarnford Clay Shoot at Buxton. Joe Hill shot the best, I was second, when an idiot came in with a 49/50. I had seen him loading three into a Browning auto and taking extra pairs. When confronted he said everyone did it - his mate only started counting hits when he started to hit a pair. He was disgracefully relegated to third place, instead of being banned from the shoot. 

 

[TK421]

3 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Loading more than two in a pump or semi auto is just stupid. Why would anyone need to do it other than idiocy or cheating? 

Had a few words, many years ago, at Quarnford Clay Shoot at Buxton. Joe Hill shot the best, I was second, when an idiot came in with a 49/50. I had seen him loading three into a Browning auto and taking extra pairs. When confronted he said everyone did it - his mate only started counting hits when he started to hit a pair. He was disgracefully relegated to third place, instead of being banned from the shoot. 

 

Doesn’t surprise me at all. There’s so much cheating on the clay circuit it’s borderline free for all  at some grounds. 

to be fair thought don’t think you’d be winning any medals with a pump as it’s so slow to cycle through rounds you’d be hard pressed to hit the second bird on every stand. Useless thing it was. 

[manthing]

Unless its a "semi auto day" as I think they are called its 2 only at the grounds I go to. You get clays at 2 a time so you only get 2 shots.

[Ultrastu]

You should also have a bright orange breach flag  stuffed in your pump or auto between stands .

[DUNKS]

1 hour ago, Gordon R said:

Loading more than two in a pump or semi auto is just stupid. Why would anyone need to do it other than idiocy or cheating? 

Had a few words, many years ago, at Quarnford Clay Shoot at Buxton. Joe Hill shot the best, I was second, when an idiot came in with a 49/50. I had seen him loading three into a Browning auto and taking extra pairs. When confronted he said everyone did it - his mate only started counting hits when he started to hit a pair. He was disgracefully relegated to third place, instead of being banned from the shoot. 

 

Not everyone at a clay ground is in competition. Some just go for a fun shoot. Two or three makes no difference at all.

[TK421]

4 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Not everyone at a clay ground is in competition. Some just go for a fun shoot. Two or three makes no difference at all.

I agree but a prerequisite of going to have fun is that I don’t get shot by some other tit having fun with his 3 shot pump that can’t hit a single bird and forgets he’s got an extra one in the chamber. Just belt and braces we can all still have fun regardless. Safety around firearms is paramount mate 

Edited December 30, 2022 by TK421

[Townie]

Pretty sure that every clay ground I've visited has a 2 cartridges only rule.
 

I was told many years ago of a group like the one described with a semi (forgotten where it was). One removed a good part of his foot after being handed the gun when three cartridges loaded and two fired and he rested the muzzle on his foot while fiddling with the trigger. Not so much the shot going through the top of the boot, more a case of it hitting concrete and bouncing back. I couldn't vouch for the truth of it, but it's the sort of thing that could happen.  

Also demonstrates that you can't legislate against stupidity.

[DUNKS]

My mistake. I wrongly assumed that all shooters act responsibly. Many of you obviously shoot at some very dodgy claygrouds. You have my sympathy. I do see where the two rounds only comes from. I have not been shooting clays for long,

[TK421]

17 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

My mistake. I wrongly assumed that all shooters act responsibly. Many of you obviously shoot at some very dodgy claygrouds. You have my sympathy. I do see where the two rounds only comes from. I have not been shooting clays for long,

Seriously? You’re going there? 
it’s the shooter not the ground, and these shooters can shoot at any ground in the country. I’ve shot and shoot at some of the most prestigious grounds in the country, with your rational if one of these muppets shoots there then it becomes a dodgy ground? What utter rubbish. We’re dealing with the public, expect anything. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by TK421

[Westley]

Having run a clay ground for some 17 years, I feel that I can speak from both sides of the fence. If an incident like that had been reported to me and they were still at the ground, I would have gone to see for myself, their behaviour. If they had finished shooting, then a word about gun safety. However, I would have noticed that 1 gun between a group, is inviting trouble. I still shoot clays on average, once a week and if I see such behaviour then I will confront them about it. Very rarely have I been argued with or challenged but, if I am, I simply point out that if they decide to become violent, that is a complete different ball game. They WILL be arrested and of course, lose their gun Certificate.  This is usually enough to stop them taking things further. I know that the grounds that I attend would certainly ban them if they chose to argue the point regarding their safe gun handling. I have said before, we are ALL safety Officers when at shooting grounds, so at least tell the ground staff.

With regards to the type of weapon, either pump action or semi auto's, they are no more dangerous than ANY other gun, it is the 'NUT' at the back of the stock that matters  !  I use a semi auto but always carry it in a slip, I dislike the plastic breech clips because they wear the finish off the action around the ejection port. Thankfully, in 17 years we only had around 4 'negligent' discharges at my ground and EVERY gun involved was an O/U   !

[Charliedog]

Clay grounds best avoided between Christmas and new year in my experience

[Westley]

2 hours ago, DUNKS said:

Not everyone at a clay ground is in competition. Some just go for a fun shoot. Two or three makes no difference at all.

All Competitions that I have attended have had a Referee on every stand and as such, this sort of behaviour is unlikely to occur.

6 minutes ago, Charliedog said:

Clay grounds best avoided between Christmas and new year in my experience

Why 

[Scully]

Unless it’s a pump/auto day when ‘full use of the gun’ is specified on multiple targets ( not common admittedly, but they can be great fun ) then it’s simply just plain etiquette that two rounds only are  loaded. 
Despite some claiming a follow up shot with a pump is too slow, some old boys used pumps for DTL.
If you know how to use one they’re as slick as owt! 🙂

[Lloyd90]

I shoot at one very informal clay ground. I will think nothing of loading 3 into the semi auto if I take it, and shooting 3 in a row instead of doing pairs, just for a bit of fun.

Whether the gun has 2 cartridges in it, or 3 cartridges in it, it is always treated with respect and care, as any firearm should be. 

I would be no more, or no less safe, in my handling and use of the gun, if I only loaded 1 cartridge, 2 cartridges, or 3 cartridges. 

 

When I had a pump (Rem Wingmaster), I also enjoyed the 3 shots from that, again in a safe and responsible manner. 

 

It appears to be that in this case, the issue, is a bunch of idiots, handling a gun in an unsafe manner. Whether they were using a side by side, over under, semi auto, or pump, matters not to me... 

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

I shoot at one very informal clay ground. I will think nothing of loading 3 into the semi auto if I take it, and shooting 3 in a row instead of doing pairs, just for a bit of fun.

Whether the gun has 2 cartridges in it, or 3 cartridges in it, it is always treated with respect and care, as any firearm should be. 

I would be no more, or no less safe, in my handling and use of the gun, if I only loaded 1 cartridge, 2 cartridges, or 3 cartridges. 

 

When I had a pump (Rem Wingmaster), I also enjoyed the 3 shots from that, again in a safe and responsible manner. 

 

It appears to be that in this case, the issue, is a bunch of idiots, handling a gun in an unsafe manner. Whether they were using a side by side, over under, semi auto, or pump, matters not to me... 

As a matter of courtesy, I would clear it with the ground owner first, but I would not have any issues with that as long as basic safety is followed.

[rapid rich]

Reminds me of Only Fools and Horses when Del rocks up to shoot clays 😂😂😂

 

RR

[Poor Shot]

I quite often load 3 when I use an auto to save time in the stand. I only use it at a local club ground and with the consent of the person running the shoot that day.

Much quicker to load 3 first up and then top up two in the bottom after every pair than put one into the chamber, cycle it then put another in the bottom. Only load one additional cartridge when the buttoner calls last pair. As its an auto there's no reason for the muzzle ever to come out of the 'safe zone' until your done and the breach flag is put back in the gun.

Don't even start on auto users that walk off after shooting having left 10 empties on the floor 😆 They should be shunned by the shooting communities and their own families.