Dave Carrie using Steel at Warter Priory

[Ttfjlc]

Afternoon, has anybody else seen the video Dave posted a couple of hours ago? I have been using steel for a number of years for wildfowling so know what it can do but I was impressed with some of the birds taken in this video with a couple of different steel loads. He mentions at the start of the video about the British shooting show where they'll be talking about the new steel loads on the gamebore stand, I know some folk aren't fans of steel but as a wildfowler its nice to see new loads coming onto the market. 

[Walker570]

As usual they didn't show the ones he missed.

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

As usual they didn't show the ones he missed.

Eh? What would be the point? 

[Ttfjlc]

To be fair he had 2 shots very early on at the same bird which to me didn't appear hit

[alastair0903]

Where’s the the video posted, any links? 

[Ttfjlc]

@alastair0903 hopefully this link works

[Scully]

I agree with much of what he says and totally understand his aim, but he’s such a poor talker I sometimes cringe when listening to him. 
I didn’t understand however, the point he was trying to make with his comment regarding Wild Justice were checking supermarket shelves to see if any game contained lead! What the hell has it got to do with them?
I couldn’t give a flying duck what Wild Justice are doing with regards to checking game for lead, and that’s what he should have said. It doesn’t matter one iota what they are doing! 
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO SHOOT GAME WITH LEAD! 
 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well, presumably Wild Justice will have to buy any game they wish to investigate, so that's one good point.

[Scully]

35 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well, presumably Wild Justice will have to buy any game they wish to investigate, so that's one good point.

Indeed, because it isn’t even illegal to sell it! 
Only members of the NGDA committed to sourcing lead free game, I’m assuming there are some game dealers who aren’t members?🤷‍♂️

Edited January 22, 2023 by Scully

[enfieldspares]

We've got to get it into the food chain....We've got to get it into the food chain...blah, blah, blah. All that is shot where I shoot gets shared with the beaters then the guns (in that order). Now Carrie at al may seek to justify big bags with this food chain BS bu the reality is that for maybe 80% of Saturday shoots in the UK the shot game is shared amongst those there on the day. Getting it into the food chain is irrelevant to them. Yet they are all to be thrown under the bus so that big bags may  be justified as going inti the food chain. I'd sooner see a legal ban on putting down pheasants above a certain density per acre than I would on lead. And FWIW I and no small number of others would sooner never shoot again, or handload, then buy and use Gamebore cartridges be they steel, lead or even golden shot.

Edited January 22, 2023 by enfieldspares

[grahamch]

Sorry cant stand the bloke, his videos and his big bag double gun days, its the sort of shooting that will bring unneeded legislation. 

Looks like folk with more money than sense. 

 

[Walker570]

How many years have we been using lead shot?   How many recorded deaths from lead poisoning from lead shot? At creeping up to 83 years of age I was reared and have eaten game all my life shot with lead shot, creaking at the joints a bit these days but still able to sit here and type this.    I can honestly say in all the meats shot with lead I have eaten over the years, I have never actually found a single pellet.

Regarding Carrie, I can't stand the bloke either and would be asking for my money back if drawn next to him having watch his poaching of neighbours birds. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

How many years have we been using lead shot?   How many recorded deaths from lead poisoning from lead shot? At creeping up to 83 years of age I was reared and have eaten game all my life shot with lead shot, creaking at the joints a bit these days but still able to sit here and type this.    I can honestly say in all the meats shot with lead I have eaten over the years, I have never actually found a single pellet.

Regarding Carrie, I can't stand the bloke either and would be asking for my money back if drawn next to him having watch his poaching of neighbours birds. 

It is very unlikely, but can you imagine turning up for a "Special" day, only to find DC and his entourage getting ready to film the day?

 

I do not like him on the clays and would not want to be at the same game shoot as him.

[ditchman]

16 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

How many years have we been using lead shot?   How many recorded deaths from lead poisoning from lead shot? At creeping up to 83 years of age I was reared and have eaten game all my life shot with lead shot, creaking at the joints a bit these days but still able to sit here and type this.    I can honestly say in all the meats shot with lead I have eaten over the years, I have never actually found a single pellet.

Regarding Carrie, I can't stand the bloke either and would be asking for my money back if drawn next to him having watch his poaching of neighbours birds. 

yeah ...i noticed that..........cardinal sin that... poaching.............i will say one thing tho'............he was burning off 2 shots for nearly every bird...no wonder he double gunned

[Ttfjlc]

well....I still think its good to see steel cartridges performing 😆. @enfieldspares I'm intrigued as to why you and a few others won't use gamebore cartridges? 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

We've got to get it into the food chain....We've got to get it into the food chain...blah, blah, blah. All that is shot where I shoot gets shared with the beaters then the guns (in that order). Now Carrie at al may seek to justify big bags with this food chain BS bu the reality is that for maybe 80% of Saturday shoots in the UK the shot game is shared amongst those there on the day. Getting it into the food chain is irrelevant to them. Yet they are all to be thrown under the bus so that big bags may  be justified as going inti the food chain. I'd sooner see a legal ban on putting down pheasants above a certain density per acre than I would on lead. And FWIW I and no small number of others would sooner never shoot again, or handload, then buy and use Gamebore cartridges be they steel, lead or even golden shot.

‘Getting it into the food chain’ is the only justification we have for driven game shooting, regardless of the size of the bag. 
The only difference between the 80% ( wherever you’ve conjured up that figure from ) you claim, of shoots where guns take the bag ( I know many guns who don’t take any ) and commercial shoots, is that the latter sells days.
The size of the bag is irrelevant 

1 hour ago, grahamch said:

Sorry cant stand the bloke, his videos and his big bag double gun days, its the sort of shooting that will bring unneeded legislation. 

Looks like folk with more money than sense. 

 

Why will big bag double gunning bring legislation, and single gunning average bags not? 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Scully

[Charliedog]

35 minutes ago, Scully said:

‘Getting it into the food chain’ is the only justification we have for driven game shooting, regardless of the size of the bag. 
The only difference between the 80% ( wherever you’ve conjured up that figure from ) you claim, of shoots where guns take the bag ( I know many guns who don’t take any ) and commercial shoots, is that the latter sells days.
The size of the bag is irrelevant 

Why will big bag double gunning bring legislation, and single gunning average bags not? 

The perception is that one is seen as a sporting day the other a massacre

[Scully]

35 minutes ago, Charliedog said:

The perception is that one is seen as a sporting day the other a massacre

By whom? Have a gander at the comments regarding the shooting of woodcock on Packhams FB petition page. 
It would appear shooting for ‘sport’ doesn’t make the killing of birds any more acceptable. 
Can anyone tell me the difference between a ‘big bag’ day and an average bag day? 

[Walker570]

I am more than happy folks are willing to pay for large bag days because many of those estates today also appreciate the small 60 to 120 bird days to mop up the boundaries and adds to the Keepers well earned tips.  ALSO the smaller days are so much more fun with banter with beaters and pickers up who also enjoy the days better.

Just had two sixty bird days and enjoyed every minute and as my wife said tonight , things will go very flat for a week or two now our season is over.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Walker570

[Dave at kelton]

Let’s take all  the politics out of this and the personal likes or dislikes of an individual. This video demonstrates one thing and that is steel cartridges will kill game the same as lead in the right hands. It simply quashes that myth and demonstrates very clearly that the manufacturers are on top of their game as far as any potential banning of lead is concerned. It also removes one of the areas for WJ to exploit; that is we are polluting the earth with a toxic substance.

[enfieldspares]

22 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said:

 It also removes one of the areas for WJ to exploit; that is we are polluting the earth with a toxic substance.

Yes. Because once we all stop using lead WJ will stop campaigning against shooting. Absolutely.

What did Mr Kipling say...when no doubt waiting for his cakes to rise...

Quote

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
   And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
   And then  you'll get rid of the Dane!

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
   But we've  proved it again and  again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
   You never get rid of the Dane.

 

[8 shot]

It's a sponsored film he's hardly going to chop of the hand that feeds him now is he, I watched the Hull Cartridge offering of a similar thing, same Bulls...t, not many clean kills there more about the Hydrawad really. We occasionally have a retired GP shoot with us and he says it's not necessarily the poision that kills you it's the dose. And as we know Lead has never killed anybody

[Scully]

49 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Yes. Because once we all stop using lead WJ will stop campaigning against shooting. 

 

Indeed. Because what WJ are campaigning about is, regardless of the bag size, is the fact that all of us, without exception, involved in ( in this instance ) driven game shooting, is killing for entertainment….or ‘sport’ if you prefer. 

[zipdog]

Fact of the matter is. A 32 gram lead cartridge will always kill better than a 32 gram steel cartridge. Carrie is out there for one thing, to satasify his own ego and small mindedness. 

[JohnfromUK]

I can understand how you can 'scan' shot game and detect steel (it is quite easy to use a magnetic type detector that will respond to 'ferrous' metal). 

What I don't understand is how you can differentiate lead from say tungsten matrix or bismuth?  I can only think that you would have to dissect the bird, recover the shot, then have it tested. 

Does anyone know if there is a process to non-invasively differentiate between lead and bismuth or tungsten easily in a shot bird?

Our little shoot consumes all it shoots within the team, so it is unimportant to us at present, and I'm perfectly happy to eat game shot with lead (as I have been doing for about 60 years).  I also don't look forward to my (now a bit fragile) molars encountering a piece if steel shot!

Edited January 23, 2023 by JohnfromUK