Centrepin Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 hours ago, steve1066 said: You maybe surprised Centrepin that they are not paid for all the hours they work. If you worked out the hours they do work quite a few of them would be on minimum wage. Your third comment is very true, but surely that is due to the youngsters going to University straight from School. At what age would you say they are of some use, gained life experience and now have that common sense, would you say 30-40? At least 35 - 40 possibly older with demonstrable life skills rather than university sills. As for hours worked, look at the average school car park after school, empty withing half hour of kids out. Some teachers out faster than the kids. Maybe 6 hours max including breaks. Part time at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, steve1066 said: Spot on Mice. I think a lot of comments made on this forum are made due to total ignorance of the subject. I think you've missed the point. John's post sums the issue up very well. Most in the country have seen huge impacts to their purchasing power and the private sector are going to be very hard pushed to get any meaningful pay increase. What makes teachers so special that their unions are demanding large pay rises over others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: Lack or common sense and real world experience is likely (in my opinion) from them sitting inside their houses playing game stations 12+ hours a day rather than being outside in the real world. And who`s fault is that if not the parents. It would appear that letting their kids play on their game stations for so long is an easy option and cop out for the lack of interest and encouragement by the parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Old Boggy said: And who`s fault is that if not the parents. It would appear that letting their kids play on their game stations for so long is an easy option and cop out for the lack of interest and encouragement by the parents. It doesn't get any better at university 40% of first years drop out because they cant cope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: Considering kids have the highest academic achievement ever with top grades achieved is that fair? 🤷♂️ Grade drift ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, Centrepin said: At least 35 - 40 possibly older with demonstrable life skills rather than university sills. As for hours worked, look at the average school car park after school, empty withing half hour of kids out. Some teachers out faster than the kids. Maybe 6 hours max including breaks. Part time at best. To see what they are driving and then compare it with cars parked in staff car parks at factory's or fast food restaurants to see who is doing well. Plus which ones retire early with a nice pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Boggy Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 29 minutes ago, Bigbob said: It doesn't get any better at university 40% of first years drop out because they cant cope And those that can cope don`t seem to know what they want to do once they finish Uni, or whether they are even on the right course in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Quite why anyone chooses to enter the teaching or health professions and then seems surprised about the pay and conditions when they are supposedly intelligent individuals I've never heard my Mrs complain about the pay, she's a TA, the hours fit around our kids so it's a win win for us. 1 hour ago, steve1066 said: Spot on Mice. I think a lot of comments made on this forum are made due to total ignorance of the subject. Most probably, not long ago we had two teachers sat round at ours, plus my Mrs, talking about the marking, planning and vague bits about what goes on in class, I don't think most of us could last a term, and most who complain about the teachers probably have had little to do with the education system for a long time. 2 hours ago, bruno22rf said: Sorry Mice, but I have been told many times that I would make a good Teacher and the only people spouting how hard the job is are the thousands currently paid hansomely to Teach but are failing miserably, their pay is artificially high for one simple reason - working folk cannot afford to take days off looking after their own kids in the event of a strike. Next time they strike lets get the Army in to keep an eye on the children then sit back and watch the educaters crawl back. My guess is it is a high school? I'm not saying it's a hard job, I'm saying most couldn't do it, it can be hard enough training an Apprentice these days never mind 30+ kids. People like to slam the education system along with many others like the NHS, and they could all be improved but to say the education system is poor isn't really fair at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Mice! said: I've never heard my Mrs complain about the pay, she's a TA, the hours fit around our kids so it's a win win for us. Most probably, not long ago we had two teachers sat round at ours, plus my Mrs, talking about the marking, planning and vague bits about what goes on in class, I don't think most of us could last a term, and most who complain about the teachers probably have had little to do with the education system for a long time. My guess is it is a high school? I'm not saying it's a hard job, I'm saying most couldn't do it, it can be hard enough training an Apprentice these days never mind 30+ kids. People like to slam the education system along with many others like the NHS, and they could all be improved but to say the education system is poor isn't really fair at all. It was a Junior school . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: It was a Junior school . I didn't expect that 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) OMG this post has made my day. Rather than biting keyboard warriors….. Just keep paying your taxes. You’ve got no idea how much I’ll spend in Orlando for 20 nights this summer, plus I’ve got a few weeks either side to cover as well. It’s hard, expensive work that…… Edited June 25, 2023 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Rem260 said: To see what they are driving and then compare it with cars parked in staff car parks at factory's or fast food restaurants to see who is doing well. Plus which ones retire early with a nice pension. Are you really comparing university qualified teachers like for like with staff working in fast food? 🤣🤣 Can see this “debate” is going nowhere with that sort of logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 29 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Are you really comparing university qualified teachers like for like with staff working in fast food? 🤣🤣 Can see this “debate” is going nowhere with that sort of logic. I thought the gist was that they are under paid and over worked. Which they are not. They get a fair wage for thier effort. So yes a good comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1066 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Centrepin said: At least 35 - 40 possibly older with demonstrable life skills rather than university sills. As for hours worked, look at the average school car park after school, empty withing half hour of kids out. Some teachers out faster than the kids. Maybe 6 hours max including breaks. Part time at best. Well I work on numerous schools every week due to carrying out various construction projects and I don’t see car parks empty at 3:00 pm, so according to you with 6 hours max the teacher walks into the classroom bang on 9:00 and out at 3:00. Go and spend a day with a decent junior school teacher and see what she or he actually does before you tar them all with your ignorance brush. I think you will be surprised just how hard they work, most of them are not asking for more money just better conditions. Most teachers are reluctant to follow the unions out on strike because of how detrimental it is to working parents and something you wouldn’t consider is the school meal is quite possibly the only decent meal some children will have that day. Also when children are living under certain conditions at home it’s the teachers who notice the change in the child and are able to assist the child, so again they are reluctant to miss even one day. Paid too much and the jobs easy, what an utter joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 26 minutes ago, Rem260 said: I thought the gist was that they are under paid and over worked. Which they are not. They get a fair wage for thier effort. So yes a good comparison. Ye fair enough, that must be the reason people are queing up to join the profession, they have hundreds of applications and there's no vacancies... Oh wait, its the exact opposite ... how come people aren't banging at the door to work in a profession that pays so well for such tiny amount of work then? Or are you perhaps living in fantasy land?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, steve1066 said: most of them are not asking for more money just better conditions. Righto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 £30k a year starting salary,(£40k inside the M25) impossible to get fired unless you do the obvious, solid pension and 13 weeks holiday a year not to mention inset days, training days, snow days and now strike days. It’s tough alright. The massive p-takers however are university lecturers but that’s a different thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1066 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 13 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Ye fair enough, that must be the reason people are queing up to join the profession, they have hundreds of applications and there's no vacancies... Oh wait, its the exact opposite ... how come people aren't banging at the door to work in a profession that pays so well for such tiny amount of work then? Or are you perhaps living in fantasy land?! Very good points Lloyd90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) £30k a year starting salary - wrong, it’s just recently jumped to 28k as an incentive to try and get people into the profession. impossible to get fired unless you do the obvious - wrong, I’ve seen a number of staff thrown out the school for underperforming and not being a sex offender. solid pension - wrong (ish) If you do 40+ years it’s OK. but actually who wants their kids taught by an old person? However I’m not far off 30 years paying into my pension - many other public workers are finishing (retiring) and get way more after 30 years paying less money in 13 weeks holiday a year - Yes unpaid, teachers get paid (a salary paid over 12 months for their contractual hours) Not to mention inset days training days - do others, in other jobs not do training? Snow days - if adults can’t get in for traffic / accident it’s fine if they are 15 mins late. Tell me what you do with 1200 kids? Also many schools have Apex roofs and the risk of falling snow ice all new builds have flat roofs. strike days - yup, loss of salary for the day. I could have just replied “balderdash” because that is what you speak. I’ve seen a stronger case put forward by a 11 year old. And if it’s that easy, jump on board, the occupation is crying out for the likes of you……. Edited June 25, 2023 by markm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 18 minutes ago, Mungler said: £30k a year starting salary,(£40k inside the M25) impossible to get fired unless you do the obvious, solid pension and 13 weeks holiday a year not to mention inset days, training days, snow days and now strike days. It’s tough alright. The massive p-takers however are university lecturers but that’s a different thread. Sounds like a great job until you add the pupils into the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1066 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 I think I can see a pattern here, maybe the lazy and carp teachers all live in the London and Essex area, that would explain a lot really wouldn’t it. Obviously only said in gest, before all you Southerners jump on your keyboards. 3 minutes ago, welsh1 said: Sounds like a great job until you add the pupils into the equation. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, steve1066 said: I think I can see a pattern here, maybe the lazy and carp teachers all live in the London and Essex area, that would explain a lot really wouldn’t it. Obviously only said in gest, before all you Southerners jump on your keyboards. 😂 They also like to have their voice heard, even when they are talking….…. and genuinely believe what they say is gospel. Quickly learned that when I was young lad on holiday and experienced it through to my 50’s (including PW clay charity shoots….) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted June 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 It's not that I believe teachers are particularly lazy. It's that I don't see what justifys their unions constant outrageous demands. The police don't help themselves on a regular basis, but at least they're not threatening a strike everytime they want a pay increase, or demanding they got Covid vaccinnes before elderly and vulnerable because they're too important not to be back at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1066 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, markm said: They also like to have their voice heard, even when they are talking….…. and genuinely believe what they say is gospel. Quickly learned that when I was young lad on holiday and experienced it through to my 50’s (including PW clay charity shoots….) I know exactly what you mean markm, I have a couple of them that have moved up by me, we have so much to thank them for. 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted June 25, 2023 Report Share Posted June 25, 2023 So would one of the posters above swap your job do such a cushy number if not please post why ? and the shortage of teachers is only adding fuel to the problem v Mrs Agriv8 is a teacher has never striked and never will - 4 years at uni and only ever wanted to be a teacher ! go and try it and then post back if you think they are over paid ? regards Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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