Back to my Roots.

[Scully]

Apart from an illegitimate flirtation as a lad I wasn’t much interested in shotguns while pistols and revolvers were available. Prior to that rifles were always my passion. 

Once handguns had gone however, I bought myself a very loose Winchester Lightweight 12 bore shotgun, which I used for clays. It was choked 1/4 and 1/2 and despite being a tad short in the stock I loved it. 
I was (mis) informed that Beretta was the gun to own, so bought with some of my handgun compensation a 686S ( Special ) from Wilkinson’s in Barnard Castle. 
It was ok, but the more I became involved with sporting clays the more I was convinced I needed a multi-choke, so bought from Fawcetts of Lancaster a Zoli ( dealership sale!) Golden Falcon rather than the new Browning 425. It wasnt a bad gun, but I soon realised my mistake, and quickly bartered this for a multi choked Browning 325 G3, and my scores increased dramatically, to the extent I won a Turkey at the local Christmas shoot! 
However, although Browning ruled the day I always found myself distracted by ANY Winchester gun. 
I bought ( again from Fawcetts ) a S1  Winchester Model 12 takedown, in its own leather and canvas motor case, for £350.00, which I offered, to the old boy who was giving up shooting. The gun was dated 1961 and the smell when the case was opened was just simply sublime! 
He was also surrendering ( having missed the deadline ) a Webley Self-loading pistol in .455, along with a Colt New Service, again in .455. I would happily have sacrificed a leg ( or both of my OH’ s 😀) for either of them! I can’t explain how angry I was at the time! 
Anyhow, the Model 12 I bought was described as a ‘Heavy Goose Gun’ , choked full, and was like waving around a drain pipe, but I killed some memorable species with it nonetheless. 
I was forced to sell both in years to come for reasons I’ve mentioned elsewhere, and subsequently borrowed a gun whenever the need arose. 
I hankered for another Winchester 101 however, akin to an itch I couldn’t scratch, and when funds allowed bought myself a 101 Diamond Grade, sight unseen, from Avalon Guns. It was described as a sleeper, and indeed when it arrived and I opened its immaculate Winchester logo’d case, it was. Unfortunately the highly albeit perfect varnished woodwork was orange! A proper ‘babies yellow’ orange, and while every edge was as new sharp and crisp I just couldn’t live with that colour! It was traded ( I kept the case! ) via Lakeland Guns ( before Ian bought the BIG shop! ) for another DG with stunning but secondhand wood. I shot and killed eleven consecutive bolting bunnies ( real ones ) including two left and rights, with that gun. 
I used a 1300 XTR for the same purpose and genuinely claim it is the slickest pump I have ever owned.

I have bought and sold many guns since then ( I listed them not too long ago and it’s over 50! ) and despite owning a Perazzi ( an old one admittedly….for which I PX’d a S1 20 bore Model 12 at Malmo Guns ! 😭😂) a Daytona ( stunning, and basically another Perazzi ) plus various obscure but desirable makes and models, Winchester has always been a constant. 
I pursued a Grand European for years, and after spending a small fortune on restoring glorious woodwork, recently sold it at a loss. 
I bought a Winchester 8500 trap ( as indeed they all are ) many moons ago which I still own, and having got it back from the person I rashly sold it to, have no inclination whatsoever to sell it again; it is devastating in a hide on corvids! 
We used to drop in whatever guns we hoped to trade, at Lakeland Guns, before telling Ian we’d be back after breakfast ( across the road!) and on one memorable morning I bought two mint Winchesters…. a 101 Field Model and a 1500 XTR, both of which I still have. I didn’t have anything to trade, but was anxious someone else bought them before I did! 😄 I shot the most memorable bird I have ever shot with that Field Model.
I recently bought a Classic Doubles 101 Trap ( the company which tried to carry on where Olin and Kodenshi left ) and have just bought a much adored Model 12. It’s S2 but I don’t care. It’s mine and it’s where I belong. 
I don’t care that these guns aren’t HP steel proofed….they're more than capable despite not having that little fluer delys stamp of approval.  I don’t care that they may have tight chokes and non chrome lined barrels. 
I’m a gun nut. Guns are my passion, and it would seem Winchesters in particular are very much so. 
I appear to have gone full circle and I couldn’t be happier. 

 

Edited February 16 by Scully

[BlaserF3]

I remeber you winning the Turkey 😄

A long time ago.

All the best.

[Scully]

10 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

I remeber you winning the Turkey 😄

A long time ago.

All the best.

😂 Thanks.Yes, it seems a long time ago now.  
And to you too. 👍

[enfieldspares]

I owned, at one time, Tom Collin's Winchester Model 12. At that time they were, just until the Tory Government 1988 Act moved them to s5, still s1 as it had an under twenty-four inch barrel. I acquired it from the dispersal sale of his estate sale at Weller & Dufty. It was surrendered and of course being on my RFD I received no compensation as the the authors of the 1988 Act decreed that there would be none and that RFDs must bear the loss as part of the normal risks of business.

Edited February 16 by enfieldspares

[islandgun]

8 hours ago, Scully said:

Apart from an illegitimate flirtation as a lad I wasn’t much interested in shotguns while pistols and revolvers were available. Prior to that rifles were always my passion. 

Once handguns had gone however, I bought myself a very loose Winchester Lightweight 12 bore shotgun, which I used for clays. It was choked 1/4 and 1/2 and despite being a tad short in the stock I loved it. 
I was (mis) informed that Beretta was the gun to own, so bought with some of my handgun compensation a 686S ( Special ) from Wilkinson’s in Barnard Castle. 
It was ok, but the more I became involved with sporting clays the more I was convinced I needed a multi-choke, so bought from Fawcetts of Lancaster a Zoli ( dealership sale!) Golden Falcon rather than the new Browning 425. It wasnt a bad gun, but I soon realised my mistake, and quickly bartered this for a multi choked Browning 325 G3, and my scores increased dramatically, to the extent I won a Turkey at the local Christmas shoot! 
However, although Browning ruled the day I always found myself distracted by ANY Winchester gun. 
I bought ( again from Fawcetts ) a S1  Winchester Model 12 takedown, in its own leather and canvas motor case, for £350.00, which I offered, to the old boy who was giving up shooting. The gun was dated 1961 and the smell when the case was opened was just simply sublime! 
He was also surrendering ( having missed the deadline ) a Webley Self-loading pistol in .455, along with a Colt New Service, again in .455. I would happily have sacrificed a leg ( or both of my OH’ s 😀) for either of them! I can’t explain how angry I was at the time! 
Anyhow, the Model 12 I bought was described as a ‘Heavy Goose Gun’ , choked full, and was like waving around a drain pipe, but I killed some memorable species with it nonetheless. 
I was forced to sell both in years to come for reasons I’ve mentioned elsewhere, and subsequently borrowed a gun whenever the need arose. 
I hankered for another Winchester 101 however, akin to an itch I couldn’t scratch, and when funds allowed bought myself a 101 Diamond Grade, sight unseen, from Avalon Guns. It was described as a sleeper, and indeed when it arrived and I opened its immaculate Winchester logo’d case, it was. Unfortunately the highly albeit perfect varnished woodwork was orange! A proper ‘babies yellow’ orange, and while every edge was as new sharp and crisp I just couldn’t live with that colour! It was traded ( I kept the case! ) via Lakeland Guns ( before Ian bought the BIG shop! ) for another DG with stunning but secondhand wood. I shot and killed eleven consecutive bolting bunnies ( real ones ) including two left and rights, with that gun. 
I used a 1300 XTR for the same purpose and genuinely claim it is the slickest pump I have ever owned.

I have bought and sold many guns since then ( I listed them not too long ago and it’s over 50! ) and despite owning a Perazzi ( an old one admittedly….for which I PX’d a S1 20 bore Model 12 at Malmo Guns ! 😭😂) a Daytona ( stunning, and basically another Perazzi ) plus various obscure but desirable makes and models, Winchester has always been a constant. 
I pursued a Grand European for years, and after spending a small fortune on restoring glorious woodwork, recently sold it at a loss. 
I bought a Winchester 8500 trap ( as indeed they all are ) many moons ago which I still own, and having got it back from the person I rashly sold it to, have no inclination whatsoever to sell it again; it is devastating in a hide on corvids! 
We used to drop in whatever guns we hoped to trade, at Lakeland Guns, before telling Ian we’d be back after breakfast ( across the road!) and on one memorable morning I bought two mint Winchesters…. a 101 Field Model and a 1500 XTR, both of which I still have. I didn’t have anything to trade, but was anxious someone else bought them before I did! 😄 I shot the most memorable bird I have ever shot with that Field Model.
I recently bought a Classic Doubles 101 Trap ( the company which tried to carry on where Olin and Kodenshi left ) and have just bought a much adored Model 12. It’s S2 but I don’t care. It’s mine and it’s where I belong. 
I don’t care that these guns aren’t HP steel proofed….they're more than capable despite not having that little fluer delys stamp of approval.  I don’t care that they may have tight chokes and non chrome lined barrels. 
I’m a gun nut. Guns are my passion, and it would seem Winchesters in particular are very much so. 
I appear to have gone full circle and I couldn’t be happier. 

 

Well that was an enjoyable read and insight into some guns I have absolutely no knowledge of. I will now have an hour or two with Google looking them up

[Konor]

Great post Scully. I’ve owned a few Winchesters over the years including a model 23 black actioned waterfowl multichoked model which looked very much like a model 21 and was a great gun for me. The nicest balanced was a model 12 twenty bore 25 inch barrelled full choke I had 3crows a rabbit and a fox for 7 shots on its first outing, it was pinned together so couldn’t be broken down and I reluctantly sold it thinking I would eventually pick up another still capable of being broken down but have never come across one. I just sold my model 12 Skeet gun deluxe walnut but fitted with a cutts compensator which I never was 100% happy with. I’ve 2 classic doubles 101s a grade 2 12 bore field model with an extra trap stock and a 20 bore Skeet gun I stripped the varnish on the woodwork of both and oil finished ,the 12 was a great job the 20 not so much. I’ve also got a Parker reproduction 12 bore side by side made at the Olin-Kodensha factory that I love shooting it’s a robust 3 inch chambered gun that balances great and has a broad file cut rib , a slim straight hand grip and a single trigger that’s great for clays.

Like yourself I’ve always enjoyed the older Winchester guns and although compared with the USA we are limited in choice there are great books covering the Winchester products. I’ve 2 books on the model 12 ,1 on the model 21 and another on the complete Winchester shotgun range that you’ve prompted me to dig out and reread. The Winchesters just strike a chord with me for some reason that I can’t put my finger on I’m glad there’s more folk that feel the same.

Edited February 17 by Konor
Addition

[button]

10 hours ago, Scully said:

Apart from an illegitimate flirtation as a lad I wasn’t much interested in shotguns while pistols and revolvers were available. Prior to that rifles were always my passion. 

Once handguns had gone however, I bought myself a very loose Winchester Lightweight 12 bore shotgun, which I used for clays. It was choked 1/4 and 1/2 and despite being a tad short in the stock I loved it. 
I was (mis) informed that Beretta was the gun to own, so bought with some of my handgun compensation a 686S ( Special ) from Wilkinson’s in Barnard Castle. 
It was ok, but the more I became involved with sporting clays the more I was convinced I needed a multi-choke, so bought from Fawcetts of Lancaster a Zoli ( dealership sale!) Golden Falcon rather than the new Browning 425. It wasnt a bad gun, but I soon realised my mistake, and quickly bartered this for a multi choked Browning 325 G3, and my scores increased dramatically, to the extent I won a Turkey at the local Christmas shoot! 
However, although Browning ruled the day I always found myself distracted by ANY Winchester gun. 
I bought ( again from Fawcetts ) a S1  Winchester Model 12 takedown, in its own leather and canvas motor case, for £350.00, which I offered, to the old boy who was giving up shooting. The gun was dated 1961 and the smell when the case was opened was just simply sublime! 
He was also surrendering ( having missed the deadline ) a Webley Self-loading pistol in .455, along with a Colt New Service, again in .455. I would happily have sacrificed a leg ( or both of my OH’ s 😀) for either of them! I can’t explain how angry I was at the time! 
Anyhow, the Model 12 I bought was described as a ‘Heavy Goose Gun’ , choked full, and was like waving around a drain pipe, but I killed some memorable species with it nonetheless. 
I was forced to sell both in years to come for reasons I’ve mentioned elsewhere, and subsequently borrowed a gun whenever the need arose. 
I hankered for another Winchester 101 however, akin to an itch I couldn’t scratch, and when funds allowed bought myself a 101 Diamond Grade, sight unseen, from Avalon Guns. It was described as a sleeper, and indeed when it arrived and I opened its immaculate Winchester logo’d case, it was. Unfortunately the highly albeit perfect varnished woodwork was orange! A proper ‘babies yellow’ orange, and while every edge was as new sharp and crisp I just couldn’t live with that colour! It was traded ( I kept the case! ) via Lakeland Guns ( before Ian bought the BIG shop! ) for another DG with stunning but secondhand wood. I shot and killed eleven consecutive bolting bunnies ( real ones ) including two left and rights, with that gun. 
I used a 1300 XTR for the same purpose and genuinely claim it is the slickest pump I have ever owned.

I have bought and sold many guns since then ( I listed them not too long ago and it’s over 50! ) and despite owning a Perazzi ( an old one admittedly….for which I PX’d a S1 20 bore Model 12 at Malmo Guns ! 😭😂) a Daytona ( stunning, and basically another Perazzi ) plus various obscure but desirable makes and models, Winchester has always been a constant. 
I pursued a Grand European for years, and after spending a small fortune on restoring glorious woodwork, recently sold it at a loss. 
I bought a Winchester 8500 trap ( as indeed they all are ) many moons ago which I still own, and having got it back from the person I rashly sold it to, have no inclination whatsoever to sell it again; it is devastating in a hide on corvids! 
We used to drop in whatever guns we hoped to trade, at Lakeland Guns, before telling Ian we’d be back after breakfast ( across the road!) and on one memorable morning I bought two mint Winchesters…. a 101 Field Model and a 1500 XTR, both of which I still have. I didn’t have anything to trade, but was anxious someone else bought them before I did! 😄 I shot the most memorable bird I have ever shot with that Field Model.
I recently bought a Classic Doubles 101 Trap ( the company which tried to carry on where Olin and Kodenshi left ) and have just bought a much adored Model 12. It’s S2 but I don’t care. It’s mine and it’s where I belong. 
I don’t care that these guns aren’t HP steel proofed….they're more than capable despite not having that little fluer delys stamp of approval.  I don’t care that they may have tight chokes and non chrome lined barrels. 
I’m a gun nut. Guns are my passion, and it would seem Winchesters in particular are very much so. 
I appear to have gone full circle and I couldn’t be happier. 

 

I’d finally come to terms dithering over your GE and been to late and then you just had to remind me☹️

[Westley]

16 minutes ago, button said:

I’d finally come to terms dithering over your GE and been to late and then you just had to remind me☹️

Yes, I was EXACTLY the same over the Classic Doubles Trap he recently bought too !  I only wanted it for the stock though   !   😂

Excellent post Scully, brought back some very similar memories. 

[London Best]

Scully, for pity’s sake write that book!

[Krico woodcock]

Your dead on Scully,  something a about winchesters that no other gun can match.  I have shot a couple of 101 trap guns, and a beautiful grand european game gun/sporter  albeit a bit low in stock,  lovely handling gun. I own a Winchester 23 super grade sxs , bought it 20 years ago in mint condition. One of the best handling guns ever made I would say,wouldn't be without it. Although dyed in wool sxs purists say, its not a true sxs, well the barrels are side by side, so to me it's a sxs. I have put thousands of cartridges through it. Definitely if I had to one gun for everything, this would be the one. 

 

[JDog]

Naughty boy Scully, you may have just cost me some serious dosh.

I am going to see a Classic Doubles next week. I am secretly hoping it doesn't fit.

 

[decoyman]

What a fascinating read.

Stephen.

[Konor]

There’s a cracking looking 101 classic doubles 20 bore game gun just gone up for sale on guntrader . Excellent wood and a good price. I’ve no connection to the seller just a heads up in case anyone’s interested 

[Sweet11-87]

enjoyed that. im early on in my shooting journey hopefully. but ive bought and sold a fair few guns already, and can very much appreciate the feeling of being on the hunt for, the purchase and the first few shoots with a new gun. Cant agree with the beretta comment though. late last year i got a 1993 686s and we make a decent pair on clays or live birds. Already got my eye on a Beretta a bit more special. horses for courses though isnt it.

Edited February 17 by Sweet11-87

[Scully]

Thanks all. A bit of a ramble admittedly but it seems to have struck a chord with some, and I’m pleased to read that these guns are still attracting a faithful amount of followers. 👍

@Sweet11-87 It’s not a slur on Berettas by any means; their OU’s just aren’t for me that’s all. 
Sorry @button! 😀There are many more out there. 👍

[Sweet11-87]

15 minutes ago, Scully said:

Thanks all. A bit of a ramble admittedly but it seems to have struck a chord with some, and I’m pleased to read that these guns are still attracting a faithful amount of followers. 👍

@Sweet11-87 It’s not a slur on Berettas by any means; their OU’s just aren’t for me that’s all. 
Sorry @button! 😀There are many more out there. 👍

totaly get what you mean mate.

[holloway]

On 17/02/2024 at 19:35, Scully said:

Thanks all. A bit of a ramble admittedly but it seems to have struck a chord with some, and I’m pleased to read that these guns are still attracting a faithful amount of followers. 👍

@Sweet11-87 It’s not a slur on Berettas by any means; their OU’s just aren’t for me that’s all. 
Sorry @button! 😀There are many more out there. 👍

one you didn't mention and if you haven't tried i would recommend is the 6500 30 inch the best handling gun ever (just my opinion ).

A ramble indeed but one which a lot of us enjoyed joining you on  .

Another just turned up on Guntrader a Winchester 23 wildfowler in need of tlc for £450 (one for Konor perhaps 😉)

[Scully]

7 hours ago, holloway said:

one you didn't mention and if you haven't tried i would recommend is the 6500 30 inch the best handling gun ever (just my opinion ).

A ramble indeed but one which a lot of us enjoyed joining you on  .

Another just turned up on Guntrader a Winchester 23 wildfowler in need of tlc for £450 (one for Konor perhaps 😉)

I’ve never owned a 6500, but that is what the Classic Doubles I own now is based upon, albeit the 6500 trap. 
Pleased you enjoyed the ramble. 
I’ve never owned a 23 either, but you never know; an elderly gentleman in our syndicate owns one, an XTR. He tells me he still has the cardboard box it came in! 
He doesn’t shoot that often nowadays.  🙂

[holloway]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I’ve never owned a 6500, but that is what the Classic Doubles I own now is based upon, albeit the 6500 trap. 
Pleased you enjoyed the ramble. 
I’ve never owned a 23 either, but you never know; an elderly gentleman in our syndicate owns one, an XTR. He tells me he still has the cardboard box it came in! 
He doesn’t shoot that often nowadays.  🙂

I have had a couple of 23s and i never shot well with them but strangely still tempted to try another one.

[Konor]

18 hours ago, holloway said:

Another just turned up on Guntrader a Winchester 23 wildfowler in need of tlc for £450 (one for Konor perhaps 😉)

There were only a few hundred made in USA I think the 12 bore models were called the heavy duck model and the 20 bore the light duck model. Going forward I’d like to try out a Greener blue rock pigeon side by side with its similar raised rib.

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, Konor said:

Going forward I’d like to try out a Greener blue rock pigeon side by side with its similar raised rib.

Had to google that. Nice looking gun. 

[Konor]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

Had to google that. Nice looking gun. 

Potentially a posh version of the model 23 but I’ve never handled one. There was one sold on Gunwatch for just under £1000 info from Google so I’m not sure when that was. I saw one being used at DTL and should have asked about it then ,wish I had now.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Konor said:

Potentially a posh version of the model 23 but I’ve never handled one. There was one sold on Gunwatch for just under £1000 info from Google so I’m not sure when that was. I saw one being used at DTL and should have asked about it then ,wish I had now.

Much nicer than a Winchester Model 23, better handling and better looking.

[Konor]

23 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Much nicer than a Winchester Model 23, better handling and better looking.

I think so ,didn’t want to upset any present 23 owners. By comparison I prefer my AYA model 3 magnum with its splinter forend to my old model 23. Have you handled a blue rock ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Once, a long time ago.