Rewilding

[armsid]

Just read in DM about the EU,s rewilding strategy and its effect in Slovakia with people being attacked by bears and the fact the EU laws meaning that they cannot be shot to protect human life.This could be the shape of things to come in Scotland if the SNP/GREENS etc,. get their way.Introduce wolves and lynx into Scotland and what happens when (not if) a forestry worker stalker walker is attacked by any of these dangerous animals? At least the stalker on deer control ( if it will still be allowed() will at least have a chance of survival All this to create a utopia for the people ruling us What next have us all live in caves and be treated like its 1 million BC just to appease someone who does not live in the real world

[Newbie to this]

Well people will keep voting for the same old, same old.............

[morgan]

There is 8 billion people and not that many bears. Human type creatures have been living in Britain off and on for the last 800,000 years. All that time we rubbed alongside other predators. Its only been 500 years since the last wolf went, maybe 1500 since the bear got hunted out. 70% of british biodiversity has been destroyed this last century. So long as its not forced on rural communities and they are properly compensated in the long term, proportionate, well considered rewilding on marginal land, can only be a good thing for British biodiversity. I wouldnt imagine there are any serious schemes suggesting introducing bears or lynx. The newspapers are scaremongering about rewilding - they would be better off addressing food security in this country - the government are importing low welfare, unsustainable foreign government subsidised food into the UK, seriously undercutting and threatening british agriculture. Just to keep food prices low for the largely urban electorate. We export almost identical amounts of all produce as we import. 60% of farms in Wales for sale last year - were sold to non farmers - that says to me the city corporations and industrial agriculture are buying up rural communities and traditional farms. That is what people should be concerned about.

Edited March 24 by morgan

[holloway]

39 minutes ago, morgan said:

There is 8 billion people and not that many bears. Human type creatures have been living in Britain off and on for the last 800,000 years. All that time we rubbed alongside other predators. Its only been 500 years since the last wolf went, maybe 1500 since the bear got hunted out. 70% of british biodiversity has been destroyed this last century. So long as its not forced on rural communities and they are properly compensated in thre long term, proportionate, well considered rewilding on marginal land, can only be a good thing for British biodiversity. I wouldnt imagine there are any serious schemes suggesting introducing bears or lynx. The newspapers are scaremongering about rewilding - they would be better off addressing food security in this country - the government are importing low welfare, unsustainable foreign government subsidised food into the UK, seriously undercutting and threatening british agriculture. Just to keep food prices low for the largely urban electorate. We export almost identical amounts of all production, as we import. 60% of farms in Wales for sale last year - were sold to non farmers - that says to me the city corporations and industrial agriculture are buying up rural communities and traditional farms. That is what people should be concerned about.

Good post 👍

[islandgun]

1 hour ago, morgan said:

There is 8 billion people and not that many bears. Human type creatures have been living in Britain off and on for the last 800,000 years. All that time we rubbed alongside other predators. Its only been 500 years since the last wolf went, maybe 1500 since the bear got hunted out. 70% of british biodiversity has been destroyed this last century. So long as its not forced on rural communities and they are properly compensated in thre long term, proportionate, well considered rewilding on marginal land, can only be a good thing for British biodiversity. I wouldnt imagine there are any serious schemes suggesting introducing bears or lynx. The newspapers are scaremongering about rewilding - they would be better off addressing food security in this country - the government are importing low welfare, unsustainable foreign government subsidised food into the UK, seriously undercutting and threatening british agriculture. Just to keep food prices low for the largely urban electorate. We export almost identical amounts of all production, as we import. 60% of farms in Wales for sale last year - were sold to non farmers - that says to me the city corporations and industrial agriculture are buying up rural communities and traditional farms. That is what people should be concerned about.

Rewilding or gardening. if marginal land or moorland is left to grow wild, the resulting long woody heather will be a prime candidate for wildfires, a habitat for undesirable species crows foxes etc, and a poor breeding and feeding ground for birds such as Curlew and Lapwing. The marginal land here consists of grazed permanent pasture and moorland and is home to good numbers of the above, the last thing we need is imported trees and apex predators.. Agree completely about food sustainability. For me the best thing to increase bio-diversity is the creation of good mixed tree spp wide hedges, these would be both  habitat and interconnecting corridors, this would be less of a financial loss to individual farmers than all their land taken out of production

https://www.northyorkmoors.org.uk/wildlife-and-habitats/moorland

 

1 hour ago, armsid said:

Just read in DM about the EU,s rewilding strategy and its effect in Slovakia with people being attacked by bears and the fact the EU laws meaning that they cannot be shot to protect human life.This could be the shape of things to come in Scotland if the SNP/GREENS etc,. get their way.Introduce wolves and lynx into Scotland and what happens when (not if) a forestry worker stalker walker is attacked by any of these dangerous animals? At least the stalker on deer control ( if it will still be allowed() will at least have a chance of survival All this to create a utopia for the people ruling us What next have us all live in caves and be treated like its 1 million BC just to appease someone who does not live in the real world

They will still be in demand as young trees and Deer isnt a good mix

Edited March 24 by islandgun

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Rewilding or gardening. if marginal land or moorland is left to grow wild, the resulting long woody heather will be a prime candidate for wildfires, a habitat for undesirable species crows foxes etc, and a poor breeding and feeding ground for birds such as Curlew and Lapwing. The marginal land here consists of grazed permanent pasture and moorland and is home to good numbers of the above, the last thing we need is imported trees and apex predators.. Agree completely about food sustainability. For me the best thing to increase bio-diversity is the creation of good mixed tree spp wide hedges, these would be both  habitat and interconnecting corridors, this would be less of a financial loss to individual farmers than all their land taken out of production

https://www.northyorkmoors.org.uk/wildlife-and-habitats/moorland

 

They will still be in demand as young trees and Deer isnt a good mix

A BETTER post.   

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, armsid said:

Just read in DM about the EU,s rewilding strategy and its effect in Slovakia with people being attacked by bears and the fact the EU laws meaning that they cannot be shot to protect human life.This could be the shape of things to come in Scotland if the SNP/GREENS etc,. get their way.Introduce wolves and lynx into Scotland and what happens when (not if) a forestry worker stalker walker is attacked by any of these dangerous animals? At least the stalker on deer control ( if it will still be allowed() will at least have a chance of survival All this to create a utopia for the people ruling us What next have us all live in caves and be treated like its 1 million BC just to appease someone who does not live in the real world

Do you have a link for that information. I can't see that being correct, as any EU member it will be signed up to the echr, article 2 states you have a right to life, which would allow you to use lethal force to protect human life?

[Pushandpull]

Just a few points from the original post. The DM is not always very strong on EU law or on large mammals. Just read their nonsense on "trophy hunting".

The European legislation is about setting and maintaining biodiversity targets. It will not affect U.K. anyway.

Brown bears are endemic in Slovakia. Many countries live alongside bear species with few problems, which are usually caused by people attracting them with garbage or deliberate feeding. For example Black bears are found in most U.S. states and are widely hunted and I believe eaten. Human habituated animals are darted and removed or shot. There is no absolute protection anywhere as far as I know. The ECHR has nothing to do with it.

Wolves are now widespread in Europe due to natural spread. There are problems with livestock losses but attacks on humans are vanishingly rare and typically associated with rabies. All countries allow culling of troublesome individuals or by numbers at population control level.

The only "large" predator which as been seriously considered for reintroduction here is the European Lynx. This is about the size of a spaniel, and very shy and secretive, so hardly a threat to human life.

The greatest risk from animal attack in this country is either dogs or cattle, depending on where you live.

 

[wymberley]

Rewilding will be permanent so for us in the UK where we don’t have a lot of spare room and what we do have is shrinking we need to think very carefully precisely what it is we wish for.

Edited March 24 by wymberley

[12gauge82]

1 hour ago, Pushandpull said:

Just a few points from the original post. The DM is not always very strong on EU law or on large mammals. Just read their nonsense on "trophy hunting".

The European legislation is about setting and maintaining biodiversity targets. It will not affect U.K. anyway.

Brown bears are endemic in Slovakia. Many countries live alongside bear species with few problems, which are usually caused by people attracting them with garbage or deliberate feeding. For example Black bears are found in most U.S. states and are widely hunted and I believe eaten. Human habituated animals are darted and removed or shot. There is no absolute protection anywhere as far as I know. The ECHR has nothing to do with it.

Wolves are now widespread in Europe due to natural spread. There are problems with livestock losses but attacks on humans are vanishingly rare and typically associated with rabies. All countries allow culling of troublesome individuals or by numbers at population control level.

The only "large" predator which as been seriously considered for reintroduction here is the European Lynx. This is about the size of a spaniel, and very shy and secretive, so hardly a threat to human life.

The greatest risk from animal attack in this country is either dogs or cattle, depending on where you live.

 

You state echr has nothing to do with it, yet it is the highest court in any EU member state. Article 2 which is the right to life, would allow you to take any action necessary, including shooting an animal, or human even, to protect against any imminent threat to life.

Edited March 24 by 12gauge82

[Pushandpull]

Defending oneself against a deadly attack would be a sufficient defence at "local" level, whether it was against a dangerous animal or a human. The onus would be on you to prove the degree of risk and your fear of death as a result of the attack : as you say, imminent threat to life.

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, Pushandpull said:

Defending oneself against a deadly attack would be a sufficient defence at "local" level, whether it was against a dangerous animal or a human. The onus would be on you to prove the degree of risk and your fear of death as a result of the attack : as you say, imminent threat to life.

Appoliges for the confusion, I assume they've stopped being able to proactively shoot bears for peoples safety and not banned shooting a bear in self defence.

[Old farrier]

Nothing against rewilding 

IF 

they do it on there own land!! 
 

seems most of the rewilding brigade don’t have any land or livestock to be impacted by the reintroduction of the chosen project animals 

[Yellow Bear]

Lets start by rewilding the city/urban parks, should save  few bob in rates.

[oowee]

I am in SK every year the bears add interest. My brother in law often films and tracks them. This from Mikulas where the inlaws live https://www.facebook.com/reel/393023566675965/ Seems to me they need some management and an application has been made to the EU for this purpose but lacks the relevant study work to support it. 

Following Brexit, the lamb deals with Aus and NZ and the changing farm subsidies there should be large areas of this country currently put to sheep farming that will require new uses. Rewilding could present a huge opportunity for economic diversity. 

Just now, Old farrier said:

Nothing against rewilding 

IF they do it on there own land!! 
seems most of the rewilding brigade don’t have any land or livestock to be impacted by the reintroduction of the chosen project animals 

Mr Waldegrave is making a difference here with large deer releases and iron age pigs but they never stay in the areas released. 🤣

 

 

[Yellow Bear]

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

Mr Waldegrave is making a difference here with large deer releases and iron age pigs but they never stay in the areas released. 

So it is not his land that gets wrecked - shrewd  move. , virtue signal and no loss

[islandgun]

15 minutes ago, oowee said:

I am in SK every year the bears add interest. My brother in law often films and tracks them. This from Mikulas where the inlaws live https://www.facebook.com/reel/393023566675965/ Seems to me they need some management and an application has been made to the EU for this purpose but lacks the relevant study work to support it. 

Following Brexit, the lamb deals with Aus and NZ and the changing farm subsidies there should be large areas of this country currently put to sheep farming that will require new uses. Rewilding could present a huge opportunity for economic diversity. 

Mr Waldegrave is making a difference here with large deer releases and iron age pigs but they never stay in the areas released. 🤣

 

 

Ah I can see it now, roll up and watch the wolves, bears and tigers as they stroll around the carefully re -planted ex moorland, better still rent one of our luxury apartments in the style of a country dwelling or take one of the daily excursions to a village to watch and listen to some of the old original farmers talk about the weather, in their funny accents.........indeed a huge opportunity to make some money

[oowee]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

Ah I can see it now, roll up and watch the wolves, bears and tigers as they stroll around the carefully re -planted ex moorland, better still rent one of our luxury apartments in the style of a country dwelling or take one of the daily excursions to a village to watch and listen to some of the old original farmers talk about the weather, in their funny accents.........indeed a huge opportunity to make some money

You got it.  Like a real world jurassic park. You could have some locals in traditional dress wandering about and eco specialists explaining the ins and outs. It's got to be more rewarding than just throwing money at sheep herders. Not sure about the Tigers 😁

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

So it is not his land that gets wrecked - shrewd  move. , virtue signal and no loss

He has bought up tracts of land bordering the 1000 acre forest around Longleat. Removed the fences and kept land to join areas together. Quite clever. Not so good when 8 red deer (with tags) turn up unannounced in a barn on the adjacent dairy farm. 

[islandgun]

8 hours ago, oowee said:

You got it.  Like a real world jurassic park. You could have some locals in traditional dress wandering about and eco specialists explaining the ins and outs. It's got to be more rewarding than just throwing money at sheep herders. Not sure about the Tigers 😁

He has bought up tracts of land bordering the 1000 acre forest around Longleat. Removed the fences and kept land to join areas together. Quite clever. Not so good when 8 red deer (with tags) turn up unannounced in a barn on the adjacent dairy farm. 

Marvellous, yet still Im not overjoyed with the idea..😕  

[Penelope]

11 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Lets start by rewilding the city/urban parks, should save  few bob in rates.

Have you been to London recently; it's already a jungle with packs of wild animals running about the place.

[Yellow Bear]

6 minutes ago, Penelope said:

Have you been to London recently; it's already a jungle with packs of wild animals running about the place.

I was more considering wild woodland planting and quadrupedal inhabitants.   Might reduce the number of bipedal "animals" at that, as an added bonus

Would definitely "wake up" the wokerati to the problems they want to create.

Edited March 25 by Yellow Bear

[old man]

15 hours ago, wymberley said:

Rewilding will be permanent so for us in the UK where we don’t have a lot of spare room and what we do have is shrinking we need to think very carefully precisely what it is we wish for.

And that is the real problem, those involved rarely take any notice of any others affected by involvement?

[islandgun]

11 minutes ago, old man said:

And that is the real problem, those involved rarely take any notice of any others affected by involvement?

Indeed..... and the actual effect on the birds and animals that have evolved to live in the habitat the rewilders wish to change

[Penelope]

27 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

I was more considering wild woodland planting and quadrupedal inhabitants.   Might reduce the number of bipedal "animals" at that, as an added bonus

Would definitely "wake up" the wokerati to the problems they want to create.

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek.

[johnphilip]

30 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Indeed..... and the actual effect on the birds and animals that have evolved to live in the habitat the rewilders wish to change

Agree 100 %