The future.

[Nublue 22]

After many years on the planet and seen many changes I am just wondering what folks think the future holds for guns.                            I am thinking of selling up, as in a few years time they might end up being worth nothing,                                                                                airguns, there's that many coming in from Turkey and good ones there value will almost certainly go down.                                              Shotguns and fac, there's just us old ones shooting when I go any, so give us your opinion please? Have a nice day.     

[Genghis]

This has been spoken about a few times, so here's a quick summary of what I think.

 

1) Labour will almost certainly win the next election and all of the more vocal politicians who advocate stronger gun control are Labour MPs.

2) Luke Pollard is the most prominent of the above, and a possible future leader of the Labour party.

3) Guns being banned from being kept at home has repeatedly been suggested by Pollard and others. If this happens then the value of guns will plummet as very few people will want to spend big money on a gun that they can't even keep at home.

4) If an incident similar to Plymouth happens while Labour are in power then I think that some of the more extreme measures being suggested will unfortunately come to pass.

5) Only silver lining I can think of is that Starmer himself doesn't seem to have increased gun control as one of his priorities.

6) One thing that a lot of people forget is that the only reason that we didn't have more of a knee-jerk reaction after Plymouth like after other incidents is because the day after Plymouth was when Biden pulled out of Afghanistan - it pushed it off the front page. The public are very fickle.

7) I would strongly advise that you read the Labour manifesto when it's released to see if there's any mention of gun control. I would advise you consider this well when making your decision.

[Minky]

Shooting has certainly seen the going down of the sun.  Every Holts sale is overloaded with guns. Some still command reasonable to good prices  but there are  hundreds in the bargain bucket.  Last year I was in a shop and there were a couple of blokes in there.  One asked if the shop would buy in his uncles guns because he was having to give up.  The shop reply was a definite NO. they didn't even ask what he had got. The shop guy pointed to fair rack of guns that appeared like brand new.  the shop bloke said that customers would buy new guns but wouldn't even consider a S/H one. When I was a kid people started off with a ratty 410 working up to better or new guns. These were used as a working tool.  Later guns have been more of a status symbol. An accessory.   Two of my son in laws have bought S/H rifles that have been AS NEW condition.  One being a 223 BRNO that had Genuinely only ever shot 4 rounds at a paper target. With it was the original  box and the protective paper sleeve.  It  couldn't have been more new as if it had just come across the counter. The police and feo's don't even answer the phone,  answer phone or email.  They don't exist.  There are people who would love to take up shooting but its difficult.  As Mr Frazier of Dad's Army fame would say... We're doomed.   As for resistance the orgs like basic do little or nothing to stop this.

Edit.. a glance at the guns for sale section is a good example.   A lot of views but minimal sold.  Sellers asking miles to high prices in comparison to auction and even shop prices. Recently a friend bought two quite reasonable clean sbs and a Franchi hunter 3 shot auto for £25  OK nothing special but were usable especially for walk up the hedgerows with the dog. 

Edited March 24 by Minky

[Sweet11-87]

i think they've nailed the gun control issue by squeezing it at the source. how many people who were potentially going to get into shooting  only to then kick it into touch when they realized the time between  application and grant is on average about 18 months......... unless you've got someone who is willing to company you and lend you a gun youd just get a different hobby.

been nearly 3 years since lockdown lifted. im not buying the backlog excuse anymore.

not like they need gun control, like you say and ive just said on another thread  its mostly old boys that shoot, bit doom and gloom but time comes for us all. 20-30 years and gun ownership will have fallen off a cliff in the uk then they'll just ban it all together and the voice against it will be just so irrelevantly small it wont even put up a fight

Edited March 24 by Sweet11-87

[islandgun]

Theres some fantastic sxs bargains out there, buy one or two and enjoy them while you can, if they are worthless when you kick the bucket.... so what

[Minky]

All of this could be a bit academic if there is no ammunition or components available.   Have to go back to flint lock muzzle loaders firing lead sheet cut into squares or broken glass or eads and  homemade black powder or bow and arrow.... or blow pipe.  No need for a silencer. Although recently there was a  note that silencers were no longer on ticket.

Edited March 24 by Minky

[wymberley]

Things will revert to as they were in the 50s and 60s but with the current firearms licensing legislation in force. Because there will also be one other teensy weensy bit of legislation introduced this revision will also include numbers of shooters.

[team tractor]

I can see a total ban possibly but not in my life time . 50+ years maybe . 
if people keep giving in to it it’s not going to help . 
my guns are worth £5k possibly. That’s only a good holiday anyway . Minus the scopes etc that is .

[PeterHenry]

Re what has been said about the age of people who shoot - one of the reasons I enjoy shooting is because there's a broad range of ages involved. I shoot with people who are younger and older than I am. That's everything from teenagers to those who are well past retirement. I not saying we can't do with more coming up through the ranks, but if you take a look at Instagram there are plenty of young faces involved.

Edited March 24 by PeterHenry

[enfieldspares]

I will one day get told to stop re-posting this but here it is. In 2021 I sold my single Boss for what, now, I could buy a pair of them with. That is how far the value of English "best" guns has plummeted thanks to BASCs call for a ban on the use of lead shot.

[jall25]

11 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

Re what has been said about the age of people who shoot - one of the reasons I enjoy shooting is because there's a broad range of ages involved. I shoot with people who are younger and older than I am. That's everything from teenagers to those who are well past retirement. I not saying we can't do with more coming up through the ranks, but if you take a look at Instagram there are plenty of young faces involved.

 

Im with you Peter

We have plenty of young people and lots of ladies on our shoot - we do lots of events in the close season - like clay shoots / bowling to keep people together and interested 

[islandgun]

Serious question, a few years ago copper was touted as a worthwhile substitute for lead and an alternative to steel, surely in a fibre shot cup it would be ok for clays or the pigeon hide, even in an older sxs

Edited March 25 by islandgun

[PeterHenry]

3 hours ago, jall25 said:

 

Im with you Peter

We have plenty of young people and lots of ladies on our shoot - we do lots of events in the close season - like clay shoots / bowling to keep people together and interested 

👍

[London Best]

I don’t know where some folks get all this doom and gloom stuff from. 
Shooting is so popular that if you are offered a place on a day you have to make the decision and snap it up right now. If you wait a week or a day or sometimes even an hour whilst you think about it, the place has gone.

[udderlyoffroad]

 

Indeed, I confess I don't understand the pessimism on here.  Plenty of young folk taking up shooting according to my social media, not to mention my on my straw baler and DIY syndicate.  If the only media you consume is broadcast TV news, and are at your local clay ground mid-week, then unsurprisingly you're not going to see young shooters.

 

18 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

I will one day get told to stop re-posting this but here it is. In 2021 I sold my single Boss for what, now, I could buy a pair of them with. That is how far the value of English "best" guns has plummeted thanks to BASCs call for a ban on the use of lead shot.

And yet still, for all the times you've reposted it, you still don't understand BASC didn't call for a ban.  Albeit, their PR was atrocious, as you and many others still think a call for a voluntary transition over 5 years amounts to calling for a ban.

I'm not entirely sure how one of the value of a high end marque UK gun is any sort of indicator of the future of shooting as a sport either.  Those top end guns were only ever coveted by a small minority of shooters, most of which are firmly in the 'boomer' generation (or older) and thus the market is inevitably shrinking.

So yes, stop re-posting this.

23 hours ago, Nublue 22 said:

I am thinking of selling up, as in a few years time they might end up being worth nothing

If you have your guns as some sort of capital investment, then now would be a bad time to sell.  If you have them to use and enjoy, stick with them.

 

22 hours ago, wymberley said:

Things will revert to as they were in the 50s and 60s but with the current firearms licensing legislation in force. Because there will also be one other teensy weensy bit of legislation introduced this revision will also include numbers of shooters.

Have you got a source you could provide a link to, to back up that assertion?

 

[Penelope]

15 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

Indeed, I confess I don't understand the pessimism on here.  Plenty of young folk taking up shooting according to my social media, not to mention my on my straw baler and DIY syndicate.  If the only media you consume is broadcast TV news, and are at your local clay ground mid-week, then unsurprisingly you're not going to see young shooters.

 

And yet still, for all the times you've reposted it, you still don't understand BASC didn't call for a ban.  Albeit, their PR was atrocious, as you and many others still think a call for a voluntary transition over 5 years amounts to calling for a ban.

I'm not entirely sure how one of the value of a high end marque UK gun is any sort of indicator of the future of shooting as a sport either.  Those top end guns were only ever coveted by a small minority of shooters, most of which are firmly in the 'boomer' generation (or older) and thus the market is inevitably shrinking.

So yes, stop re-posting this.

If you have your guns as some sort of capital investment, then now would be a bad time to sell.  If you have them to use and enjoy, stick with them.

 

Have you got a source you could provide a link to, to back up that assertion?

 

It's not the pressure from within, but the pressure from without that will curtails shooting. It's happening already.

[enfieldspares]

11 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I'm not entirely sure how one of the value of a high end marque UK gun is any sort of indicator of the future of shooting as a sport either.  Those top end guns were only ever coveted by a small minority of shooters, most of which are firmly in the 'boomer' generation (or older) and thus the market is inevitably shrinking.

It is a valid indicator as when the top end stuff fetches a poor price the second and third level stuff also suffers. The gun selling forum are full of Webley 700 guns at under £800 or around £600 to £700 or less. The odd madly optimistic private punter thinking it is worth four figures be that on P/W or Guntrader. The "going rate" for these things used to be £1000 to £1400 all day and every day. And the same seems true for good but basic Italian over and under ejector guns. The Medalist or, as some would call it the Browning Medalist, and many Lander guns. Same in most markets be it guns - Parker-Hale stalking rifles - or whatever. If the value of the top rung stuff falls the value of similar products that are less coveted also falls. 

[Sweet11-87]

17 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

It is a valid indicator as when the top end stuff fetches a poor price the second and third level stuff also suffers. The gun selling forum are full of Webley 700 guns at under £800 or around £600 to £700 or less. The odd madly optimistic private punter thinking it is worth four figures be that on P/W or Guntrader. The "going rate" for these things used to be £1000 to £1400 all day and every day. And the same seems true for good but basic Italian over and under ejector guns. The Medalist or, as some would call it the Browning Medalist, and many Lander guns. Same in most markets be it guns - Parker-Hale stalking rifles - or whatever. If the value of the top rung stuff falls the value of similar products that are less coveted also falls. 

i get what youre saying but i agree with udderly, the "english best" was  at one point the best for sure but lets be honest like everything times have changed, for a fraction of what people claim theyre worth you can get a gun thats made of modern metals, ergonomically superior, using the latest barrel technology, mulit choked and future proofed for non toxic shot, with a warranty AND still hand finished and engraved for a unique and personal touch.  the nostalgia of grandads gun is now generations further along

 

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

I don’t know where some folks get all this doom and gloom stuff from. 
Shooting is so popular that if you are offered a place on a day you have to make the decision and snap it up right now. If you wait a week or a day or sometimes even an hour whilst you think about it, the place has gone.

This. 
Shooting is doing fine. 
If some want to call it a day then that’s their choice, but I won’t be one of them. 

[islandgun]

37 minutes ago, Sweet11-87 said:

i get what youre saying but i agree with udderly, the "english best" was  at one point the best for sure but lets be honest like everything times have changed, for a fraction of what people claim theyre worth you can get a gun thats made of modern metals, ergonomically superior, using the latest barrel technology, mulit choked and future proofed for non toxic shot, with a warranty AND still hand finished and engraved for a unique and personal touch.  the nostalgia of grandads gun is now generations further along

 

 

Cant argue with the logic of that and thats coming from a boomer with a love of old guns.

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Have you got a source you could provide a link to, to back up that assertion?

 

No. Because like 99.9% of the posts on PW, it is just an opinion

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

It's not the pressure from within, but the pressure from without that will curtails shooting. It's happening already.

However, again in my opinion, Penelope is spot on.

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Sweet11-87 said:

i get what youre saying but i agree with udderly, the "english best" was  at one point the best for sure but lets be honest like everything times have changed, for a fraction of what people claim theyre worth you can get a gun thats made of modern metals, ergonomically superior, using the latest barrel technology, mulit choked and future proofed for non toxic shot, with a warranty AND still hand finished and engraved for a unique and personal touch.  the nostalgia of grandads gun is now generations further along

 

 

Yes. I agree. That's very true. Same as cars. Once Rolls-Royce was the acme of best fitting and finishing with an engine. Nowadays, as I also often say, if God made cars they'd be Japanese cars. Modern machines to work metal are just that good. The only part where human input maybe has a make or break decision is where exactly on a stock blank to choose the precise point on the blank to head it up. A quarter inch higher up. a quarter inch lower down. A bit to the left or a bit to the right. So as to get the best alignment of the grain with the axis of the gun.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, enfieldspares said:

It is a valid indicator as when the top end stuff fetches a poor price the second and third level stuff also suffers. The gun selling forum are full of Webley 700 guns at under £800 or around £600 to £700 or less. The odd madly optimistic private punter thinking it is worth four figures be that on P/W or Guntrader. The "going rate" for these things used to be £1000 to £1400 all day and every day. And the same seems true for good but basic Italian over and under ejector guns. The Medalist or, as some would call it the Browning Medalist, and many Lander guns. Same in most markets be it guns - Parker-Hale stalking rifles - or whatever. If the value of the top rung stuff falls the value of similar products that are less coveted also falls. 

‘Top end’ guns are still attracting top end prices, but much depends on trends and or fashions and what one considers to be ‘top end’. 
Classic thin walled 2.5” chambered sxs’s although revered by many aren’t in trend for the current trend for high driven birds, and certainly not compatible with pending legislation. Nor are they HP steel shot proofed, nor potentially likely to be capable of being proofed for such and therefore aren’t capable of big loads. 
Mass produced classic quality still sells, although possibly not at premium prices. Many older OU’s are at least 2.75” chambered and although not HP steel shot proofed, are nevertheless more than capable of using it and readily capable of being proofed for such if the owner so wishes. 

[team tractor]

I do think the vermin side is slowing down possibly due to small farmers selling up to corporations so the little guys lost . I’ve lost 5-6 farms due to hs2 around here. 
The shop I use is full of guns where people are sick of the hassle of having an fac or sgc and he just puts them in the surrender bin . He also has a lot where people have died and the family’s haven’t carried on shooting . 
He can’t give away the single 410s etc . 
 

On the bright side tho , I’ve got my partners boys always asking to go out on the bunny or squirrel. 😁. Ones 10 and I can’t go without him lately . 

[Vince Green]

On 25/03/2024 at 07:08, islandgun said:

Serious question, a few years ago copper was touted as a worthwhile substitute for lead and an alternative to steel, surely in a fibre shot cup it would be ok for clays or the pigeon hide, even in an older sxs

I have wondered about that. It was going to be the obvious replacement but then suddenly it all went quiet and all you heard about was steel