BeardyDude Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 (edited) Ok so, I've gotten the bug! Long time browser, first time poster After a few years of regularly joining a friend for clay shooting near me, I've dropped off my medical form and am shopping for a cabinet! I'll also need a gun! Looking for an O/U 12g for general sporting clay and occasional skeet, so I gather 1/4 and 1/2 chokes ideally, and around 28-30" barrels. I've mostly been shooting my friends Browning Citori. He's since moved onto a Beretta 692, and is happy to sell it to me. It's in good condition, though not exceptional, 30" with 1 replaceable choke (1/4 included, 1/2 fixed), and ejector. It's nearly as old as me, 1984 (I was born in 82!), but it's a nice gun, fits me well, and I like the general feeling of quality - I've also never experienced any stoppages with it! But, is it the right gun for me? It's pretty heavy, which I don't love, and part of me feels a fair price for that would be more than I really need to spend, but without the benefits of spending a bit more - e.g. a full set of chokes, lighter build, steel proof and magnum chambers. Also, there seem to be plenty of bargains out there which could be perfectly usable, for a casual shooter like myself! Another of his purchases is a bargain Japan-made Winchester, which seems to fit equally well and shoots great too! It's a shorter barrelled skeet gun though, and I think dibs has been called on that one already! I do seem to prefer the browning / winchester comb height over his beretta, and any of the older SxS I've shot. So... if anyone cares to share their thoughts with me! ... - What is a fair price for the Citori? They seem to vary pretty wildly from ~250-1000! - What manufacturers and models should I be looking at for a cheaper gun with a similar fit? I've been looking at older Winchesters, as well as older Miroku, AYA, Rizzini and others. Am somewhat wary of budget brands - tried a fairly new loaner Lincoln for a day and the action felt pretty rough, compared with the winchester/browning! As it warmed up in use things seemed to get worse And, not sure how I feel about Russian guns - is a Baikal O/U particularly rough or heavy, and what's the fit like comparatively? - And, what's worth considering instead for a similar price or a even more than the Citori? Something like a 682 Gold E seems a sound choice if I want to spend up around £1k, and apparently fits more like the browning, with a higher comb than his 692 or the pigeons - though I've not had the chance to handle one! Edited April 12 by BeardyDude age misconception :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 get yourself a 26" o/u or sxs....choke cylinder and a 1/4......use 28gm #7 shot carts....this will do you for everything at your/our level....it wont hurt you..and it will move well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUNKS Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 8 minutes ago, ditchman said: get yourself a 26" o/u or sxs....choke cylinder and a 1/4......use 28gm #7 shot carts....this will do you for everything at your/our level....it wont hurt you..and it will move well Good advice. You do not want a gun that you feel is too heavy. I am 87 and now shoot a 26 inch O/U browning game gun with 21 gram cartridges and I can break all the clays at my local ground. (on a good day) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 (edited) I have a feeling he was referring to the YEAR of his birth and NOT his actual age. I know we are all living longer, but I think 82 is leaving it a bit late to enter our sport. The time it takes to get a Shotgun Certificate nowadays, he might just not require it ?? 😂 I would go with the gun that fits you the best, rather than worry about the guns age. I have a S x S that is close to getting a telegram from the King ! I am currently using a Classic Doubles (Winchester) made around 1990. It handles superbly and does everything my later model guns will do. Edited April 12 by Westley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 If the Citori fits you and you shoot well and comfortably with it then go for it. A Beretta doesn’t fit the same as Browning/Winchester so may not suit you. Miroku is also worth looking at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 I never got on with Beretta OUs but after trying a Browning 525 I had to have one. Some people seem to get on better with one or the other of the 2 brands. I've had mine since 2008 and it is a keeper. If the gun fits you & you are confident with it, you won't go far wrong. Maybe check out guntrader for used prices? How much does your friend want for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Don't dismiss the Winchester or the follow on Classic Doubles either. You mention the Citori having a 'fixed' 1/2 choke. Is that because it is seized in ? If the answer to that is "YES", that should give you a clue as to its lack of care ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserableolgit Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Go for the gun you are familiar with and in time you can move onto something else - but don't sell the one you know best until you have had the new gun fitted, or at least you have used it enough to become familiar with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 If you can recognise a gun which fits YOU well - then you are off to a good start. After gun fit (crucial!), the more ‘nice to have’ aspects come in to view, such as handling dynamics, multichoke barrels, pleasant non distracting trigger pulls, a decent recoil pad etc… Personally (and everyone will have their preferences) I find the 30” Citori to be a bit of a fence post in terms of ‘feel’. The more contemporary sporters by Browning and Beretta tend to have much nicer balance - closer to neutral in 30”. Only you will know what fits and feels right for you out of the range of choices. All the nonsense about Browning being lower on the comb than Beretta is no longer relevant - as there are so many different models and stock dimensions for both these days. Find one that fits and feels right. Have a look at Miroku also - essentially a Browning and Bomb proof. Welcome to Pigeon Watch by the way - and good look! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeardyDude Posted April 12 Author Report Share Posted April 12 Thanks for all the input so far - I will try and get a chance to handle more Miroku, later Brownings and find some more Winchesters! Yes, I am in my 40s, '82 was the year not the total! I should say I've not got any real trouble with the weight of the gun - just this original citori is over 8lb, about 1lb heavier than seems typical - and my arms have thanked me when I've shot something lighter for the day! Would a shorter 26" barrel not cause extra trouble for long shots? One ground I go to has some pretty long, 50yd shots - of course, I can hardly hit them anyway, but would be nice to know I'm not moving the goalposts further away needlessly! Prices on guntrader, gunstar (and here!) are where I'm getting the "wildly varying" from - having a hard time figuring out what a fair "mates rate" is - typical seems about 600, but not sure what makes some half that, and others nearly double. And, remember I don't actually own the citori already - I am familiar with it, but I never actually chose it myself! Is it worth spending say 550 on this, or would I be better off letting him sell it to someone who really wants it, and finding my own, cheaper gun for <300 - a winchester for example? As to choke, I think it shipped like that, not seized - there's only one (flush) tube fitted from memory, but I don't have the gun of course so can't check easily! Will ask I know the earlier Citori were all fixed choke - maybe someone had just the one barrel bored out and threaded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 It’s worth looking at Winchester 101. Now dated but in good condition they are a joy, not too heavy and you can pick them up at a sensible price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 19 minutes ago, Dave at kelton said: It’s worth looking at Winchester 101. Now dated but in good condition they are a joy, not too heavy and you can pick them up at a sensible price. yes you can pick them up for peanuts at the moment ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Hello, The Citori is over 7.5 llb so if it is a tad to heavy with 30 inch barrels find a 26 inch multi choke O/U around 7 llb with the required LOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 The Winchester or Classic Doubles clay guns tend to weigh around 8lbs. with the 'field' models coming in at just over 7lbs., depending on their 'spec'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 A 26 inch barrel does not reduce the effective range of the gun nor does it make it any more difficult to hit longer targets. I love ‘em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted April 12 Report Share Posted April 12 Short barrels went out of fashion for many reasons. One of which was that they make you go deaf quicker in the left ear. The noise and most importantly the muzzle blast is nearer. I would not know advise an newcomer to the sport to buy one. Walk around any clay ground and see what the high scoring shooters use. Not one, not one, a gun with barrels under 28". That ought to tell the OP something I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 I owned a Grade 6 Citori a few years back. I found it more barrel heavy than the 525 and lower in the stock. I didn’t enjoy shooting it as a consequence and had bought it blind so a warning not to buy before handling. The appearance was great and I talked myself into keeping it but was never really happy with its balance and shooting so was happy when I eventually traded it in. Bargain price but the wrong gun. I think the Citori line were made for the American market and had heavier barrels compared to the European 425s of the time. I shoot an MK60 and MK38 Miroku now for game and clays respectively and far prefer them. Good luck in your quest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 9 hours ago, enfieldspares said: Short barrels went out of fashion for many reasons. One of which was that they make you go deaf quicker in the left ear. The noise and most importantly the muzzle blast is nearer. I would not know advise an newcomer to the sport to buy one. Walk around any clay ground and see what the high scoring shooters use. Not one, not one, a gun with barrels under 28". That ought to tell the OP something I hope. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 Without knowing your height , build ,overall physical condition ,the sort of shooting and how much you intend to do it is very difficult if not near impossible to make anything but the vaguest of recommendations . There is a huge choice of guns and people will tend to suggest guns they favour . To say one gun fits better than another is misleading as they do not know you . Having done a lot of gun fitting I have seen too many novice shooters sold the wrong gun or have bought the wrong gun believing it is correct .Its difficult . Personally I would in general suggest a basic game/field model 28" ,if multi choked fit the 1/4 & 1/2 then lock the rest away till you can shoot the gun well , stick to one brand and load of cartridge until you feel confident . Take a few lessons with a competent shooting coach , then and only then can you make a sensible decision as to whether you need a different gun and take your time in looking around and deciding . Do not be swayed by magazine articles and people trying to sell you something , telling you that you need this length barrels , these coloured chokes etc.etc.etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, Gunman said: Without knowing your height , build ,overall physical condition ,the sort of shooting and how much you intend to do it is very difficult if not near impossible to make anything but the vaguest of recommendations . There is a huge choice of guns and people will tend to suggest guns they favour . To say one gun fits better than another is misleading as they do not know you . Having done a lot of gun fitting I have seen too many novice shooters sold the wrong gun or have bought the wrong gun believing it is correct .Its difficult . Personally I would in general suggest a basic game/field model 28" ,if multi choked fit the 1/4 & 1/2 then lock the rest away till you can shoot the gun well , stick to one brand and load of cartridge until you feel confident . Take a few lessons with a competent shooting coach , then and only then can you make a sensible decision as to whether you need a different gun and take your time in looking around and deciding . Do not be swayed by magazine articles and people trying to sell you something , telling you that you need this length barrels , these coloured chokes etc.etc.etc. All very sound advice. (Although…. how can you knock coloured chokes? They do help you hit more….. don’t they….? 😀) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 17 minutes ago, Fellside said: All very sound advice. (Although…. how can you knock coloured chokes? They do help you hit more….. don’t they….? 😀) The only choke which helps you hit more is less choke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellside Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, London Best said: The only choke which helps you hit more is less choke! Yes for most shooting this is so true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 You mentioned that you 'feel' the heavier gun more, after some shooting. I suggest that is caused by using muscles that you do NOT normally use, but would ease after you did a bit more shooting, especially if you practice your gun mounting at home between shoots. I would look for an average weight of close to 8lbs. especially if you plan on doing 100 bird shoots. I am nearly 80 and use an 8lbs gun with 30" barrels. I try to shoot at least once a week using a mix of 24 and 28 gram cartridges, I am not aware of any recoil issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decoyman Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 Miroku 800 skeet gun 26 iinch barrel does EVERYTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunman Posted April 13 Report Share Posted April 13 4 hours ago, decoyman said: Miroku 800 skeet gun 26 iinch barrel does EVERYTHING. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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