The Pigeonwatch regressive

[Zoli 12 guage]

3 minutes ago, JDog said:

My intellect is pretty limited so my posts on PW are usually restricted to countryside matters.

I do though read other posts on other topics and I don't usually form strong enough opinions to respond. In this case I will. I find you unnecessarily argumentative and self opinionated. Starting this thread represents that perfectly.

it's a "left wing" thing.

if you have a different or opposite opinion you're a bigot or have been "radicalised"

a bit like the bigoted and radicalised populus in Eire that are kicking off with the government after having an uncontrolled population explosion forced on them 👍

[Mungler]

1 minute ago, Zoli 12 guage said:

it's a "left wing" thing.

if you have a different or opposite opinion you're a bigot or have been "radicalised"

a bit like the bigoted and radicalised populus in Eire that are kicking off with the government after having an uncontrolled population explosion forced on them 👍

And that is how the intolerant left shut down any discussion or debate. Well that and telling you that they just know better and have the higher status enlightened opinion.

[Raja Clavata]

2 minutes ago, Mungler said:

And that is how the intolerant left shut down any discussion or debate. Well that and telling you that they just know better and have the higher status enlightened opinion.

But that’s exactly the behaviour of some on the extreme right here. Now two wrongs don’t make a right but…

[Mungler]

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

But that’s exactly the behaviour of some on the extreme right here. Now two wrongs don’t make a right but…

Not so.

There’s a thread in easy reach where you’re calling Farage a racist / a bigot but with no explanation or evidence as to why. The knock on of course that follows is that anyone who supports Farage or shares his views must also be racist and which is why you go out of your way to label / malign Farage.

It’s all worn thin now though and terms like racist / bigot are so wantonly thrown around they have lost all meaning and impact. I just find it irritating that the terminology is used to stifle an overdue conversation about immigration levels, integration issues and so on - and for people who live in affected areas, these issues are of paramount importance.

Odd that it is now unreasonable that the appointed government should put the views and priorities of the populous first - surely that has to be a government’s priority and primary obligation? I digress. 

 

[Raja Clavata]

8 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Not so.

There’s a thread in easy reach where you’re calling Farage a racist / a bigot but with no explanation or evidence as to why. The knock on of course that follows is that anyone who supports Farage or shares his views must also be racist and which is why you go out of your way to label / malign Farage.

It’s all worn thin now though and terms like racist / bigot are so wantonly thrown around they have lost all meaning and impact. I just find it irritating that the terminology is used to stifle an overdue conversation about immigration levels, integration issues and so on - and for people who live in affected areas, these issues are of paramount importance.

Odd that it is now unreasonable that the appointed government should put the views and priorities of the populous first - surely that has to be a government’s priority and primary obligation? I digress. 

 

Selective sampling, you seem to have only picked out certain elements.

I’d previously shared a personal perception that Farage is racist. 

I don’t accept that it necessarily follows that I’m saying anyone who likes Farage is racist. 

There was a good discussion with Rewulf and others providing balance around the fact that we all have bias, prejudice and are to varying degrees “racist”.

Farage’s comments on the incidents in Leeds were trope racism. If I’d repeated them then someone would have cited me as racist. Indeed I was accused of racist remarks purely for requesting clarification on an esoteric post that could have been interpreted different ways, the poster subsequently chose not to clarify. 

We were having a discussion on immigration but one side put out numbers as fact and got all bent out of shape when the source of the numbers was queried. That’s not a debate and if that wasn’t trying to shut down the discussion/person then I truly don’t know what is.

I do agree on the overloading of the language around racism, bigotry etc.

To me, race is a man made concept, in some way similar to religion.

On the topic of immigration I do also totally get that it’s a bigger deal for folks in Leeds than those of us in Essex for example.

Bit lost on your last point.

Is there any point us continuing to discuss this, I suggest not. 

[12gauge82]

I'm someone who supports Farage, voted for Reform and Brexit, believe strongly in free speech and would pick Trump over Biden or Harris, I probably also agree with some so called left wing ideas to and don't put myself in a box, if I did it'd be the centre (wouldn't we all), although I'm sure many would say I was right wing. All that said, I totally get Raja's point, while I agree people should be able to post what they think, I believe some people on here are out of order to be honest, Raja's posts are polite, well constructed and intelligent, it's one thing to disagree with his posts, but quite another to be rude and attempt to debase him as a person, simply for thinking differently. I also think it's worth remembering we're on a shooting forum, a small minority of the country with a traditional voter base, people might think the whole country thinks the same as them and Raja is the minority, the truth is probably closer to the reverse, if people set their soap box up in an echo chamber, it's very easy to believe your always right, Pigeonwatch is made up of people from society, but the average PW view probably doesn't reflect wider society, people would do well to remember that. 

Edited July 24 by 12gauge82

[udderlyoffroad]

13 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

My point is that this is the reflection of one of our own, reflecting on the community in general, I dread to think what the views of members of the public browsing these pages might conclude. How about we all try to be a bit "better"..

Might they perhaps conclude that people who shoot have opinions roughly in line with the rest of the population? Some of the left, some more right, and a vocal minority on the edge of either side. 

So, bearing that in mind, perhaps you might define what being a bit “better” is?

[Raja Clavata]

25 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Might they perhaps conclude that people who shoot have opinions roughly in line with the rest of the population? Some of the left, some more right, and a vocal minority on the edge of either side. 

See above post from 12gauge82.

26 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:
So, bearing that in mind, perhaps you might define what being a bit “better” is?

It was intended as a collective we, best pondered introspectively.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm someone who supports Farage, voted for Reform and Brexit, believe strongly in free speech and would pick Trump over Biden or Harris, I probably also agree with some so called left wing ideas to and don't put myself in a box, if I did it'd be the centre (wouldn't we all), although I'm sure many would say I was right wing. All that said, I totally get Raja's point, while I agree people should be able to post what they think, I believe some people on here are out of order to be honest, Raja's posts are polite, well constructed and intelligent, it's one thing to disagree with his posts, but quite another to be rude and attempt to debase him as a person, simply for thinking differently. I also think it's worth remembering we're on a shooting forum, a small minority of the country with a traditional voter base, people might think the whole country thinks the same as them and Raja is the minority, the truth is probably closer to the reverse, if people set their soap box up in an echo chamber, it's very easy to believe your always right, Pigeonwatch is made up of people from society, but the average PW view probably doesn't reflect wider society, people would do well to remember that. 

Echo this. 👍

[ditchman]

10 hours ago, Jaymo said:

You never invite me 😡

you are forever in my thoughts......if only you were closer...

 

8 hours ago, Mungler said:

I missed the earlier fun and games but I see ‘self aggrandising’ has been given new meaning this evening 😆

Ah, if only everyone could be more enlightened there would be no need for discussion because there would be no dissenting views or opinions. Indeed, we can let the self appointed clever and enlightened people do all the thinking for everyone and then dictate what everyone else’s thoughts, opinions and experiences are allowed and acceptable. Obviously there would be no Brexit, no Farage, no Trump and no low status opinions.

This all reminds me of a hundred or so PMs I have received from a variety of really clever people holding all the correct opinions over the years;

 

Dearest Mung,

You’re brilliant. No seriously, you are, and I bet you do very well with the ladies. You’re right so often it hurts. I wish the thick people on here could always see your brilliance and correctly think like you and which of course is the only correct way, but hey, they’re thick, so they can’t right? Well, I’m sure you get what I’m saying.

Furthermore, your tolerance of people who don’t share your opinions (ie the thick people who aren’t as clever or enlightened as you), is truly amazing and the stuff of legend. People may think you typed this out yourself but they would be wrong (and thick etc). Please feel free to whip this PM out later on in some attempt at evidencing how your views and opinions are correct and higher status. 

Love,

Mungler, I mean Anonymous 

 

i never get PM's like that...they  are always abusive....

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Selective sampling, you seem to have only picked out certain elements.

I’d previously shared a personal perception that Farage is racist. 

I don’t accept that it necessarily follows that I’m saying anyone who likes Farage is racist. 

There was a good discussion with Rewulf and others providing balance around the fact that we all have bias, prejudice and are to varying degrees “racist”.

Farage’s comments on the incidents in Leeds were trope racism. If I’d repeated them then someone would have cited me as racist. Indeed I was accused of racist remarks purely for requesting clarification on an esoteric post that could have been interpreted different ways, the poster subsequently chose not to clarify. 

We were having a discussion on immigration but one side put out numbers as fact and got all bent out of shape when the source of the numbers was queried. That’s not a debate and if that wasn’t trying to shut down the discussion/person then I truly don’t know what is.

I do agree on the overloading of the language around racism, bigotry etc.

To me, race is a man made concept, in some way similar to religion.

On the topic of immigration I do also totally get that it’s a bigger deal for folks in Leeds than those of us in Essex for example.

Bit lost on your last point.

Is there any point us continuing to discuss this, I suggest not. 

Pahhhhh !............yeah its like a load of folk  trying to out wee on each other as to who owns the bloody franchise...

[.357shooter]

It is simple cause and effect . people who join a sight just to cause trouble then complain about not being liked .just leave and join a site with people with similar interests.

[Rewulf]

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Or irony like you telling me about a clearly satirical post, that wasn’t

Thats your opinion though.

 

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

PW used to be a rich ecosystem of diverse thought and opinions.

It still is , yet some people dont like it so much when their opinions are challenged, or proved inconsistent with facts....

 

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

The PM I shared is genuine, makes no difference to me whether it’s believed or not. The author of that message basically gave up and left, as have various others over the years.

Because he consistently was shown to be either, wrong, or the way he argued his point was by calling people ignorant if they didnt agree with him, amongst many other names that showed the hypocrisy of his thinking process.
You do articulate a good polite counter argument, and I salute you for that and hope you continue to do so, you very rarely get personal, even in the face of provocation, something Henry D the anonymous poster could never quite achieve, and probably left muttering something about nazi scum or some such insult.

 

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Perhaps at some point the rest of us non-mainstream posters will give up too. I’m sure some would relish an environment where there was no diversity of thought or opinion, everything “topical” unanimously agreed upon.

I would very much NOT like that to happen, there is much to learn from differing opinions, discussed in a polite fashion, maybe we all should try better in that respect.
What we need to ALL understand is that some opinions will never be changed, we all have differing experiences of life, past and present, that influence our perspective, but learning about others perspectives is ALWAYS beneficial.

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him.

Galileo Galilei

[discobob]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

something Henry D the anonymous poster

Sorry, I think it was me that broke him!!

6 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

But that’s exactly the behaviour of some on the extreme right here. Now two wrongs don’t make a right but…

but two wrongs can make a right inadvertently- the daughter of the local chippy married a guy called David Right

Thinking on it - it was  2 Wong’s but hey ho - close enough 😂

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, discobob said:

Sorry, I think it was me that broke him!!

but two wrongs can make a right inadvertently- the daughter of the local chippy married a guy called David Right

Thinking on it - it was  2 Wong’s but hey ho - close enough 😂

[Raja Clavata]

Not going to discuss the identity of the poster further but I can honestly say it wasn’t HenryD (or me).

@Rewulfthat’s what I meant by the collective we being better. I can be better by ignoring people who I view as lost causes and dedicate more time to reply in more detail to people like you (who rarely throw insults, even if we drive eachother nuts at times 😂).

More later.

[henry d]

Nothing to do with me, if you want to discuss something, PM me...

2 hours ago, discobob said:

Sorry, I think it was me that broke him!!

Don't flatter yourself 

[islandgun]

16 minutes ago, henry d said:

Nothing to do with me, if you want to discuss something, PM me...

Don't flatter yourself 

Hello Henry hope you are well

[henry d]

30 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Hello Henry hope you are well

Very well thanks 😊 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good evening Henry D aka M.

[Gordon R]

Mungler - you are my hero. I aspire to get PMs like yours, but mine seem to be mainly invitations to a private phone call, to discuss something which can't be discussed in open forum, even though the matters were raised on open forum. 🙂

 

[bruno22rf]

9 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm someone who supports Farage, voted for Reform and Brexit, believe strongly in free speech and would pick Trump over Biden or Harris, I probably also agree with some so called left wing ideas to and don't put myself in a box, if I did it'd be the centre (wouldn't we all), although I'm sure many would say I was right wing. All that said, I totally get Raja's point, while I agree people should be able to post what they think, I believe some people on here are out of order to be honest, Raja's posts are polite, well constructed and intelligent, it's one thing to disagree with his posts, but quite another to be rude and attempt to debase him as a person, simply for thinking differently. I also think it's worth remembering we're on a shooting forum, a small minority of the country with a traditional voter base, people might think the whole country thinks the same as them and Raja is the minority, the truth is probably closer to the reverse, if people set their soap box up in an echo chamber, it's very easy to believe your always right, Pigeonwatch is made up of people from society, but the average PW view probably doesn't reflect wider society, people would do well to remember that. 

Nail, Head, post sums it up for me 👋.

[henry d]

36 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Good evening Henry D aka M.

And to you too.

[Raja Clavata]

10 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm someone who supports Farage, voted for Reform and Brexit, believe strongly in free speech and would pick Trump over Biden or Harris, I probably also agree with some so called left wing ideas to and don't put myself in a box, if I did it'd be the centre (wouldn't we all), although I'm sure many would say I was right wing. All that said, I totally get Raja's point, while I agree people should be able to post what they think, I believe some people on here are out of order to be honest, Raja's posts are polite, well constructed and intelligent, it's one thing to disagree with his posts, but quite another to be rude and attempt to debase him as a person, simply for thinking differently. I also think it's worth remembering we're on a shooting forum, a small minority of the country with a traditional voter base, people might think the whole country thinks the same as them and Raja is the minority, the truth is probably closer to the reverse, if people set their soap box up in an echo chamber, it's very easy to believe your always right, Pigeonwatch is made up of people from society, but the average PW view probably doesn't reflect wider society, people would do well to remember that. 

Respect.

[harrycatcat1]

I have read through this topic and I am still no wiser why the OP posted it 🤔 I must be one of the regressive's 🤔

I'm off to read the car's section or the air rifle one, this is too deep for me.

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, harrycatcat1 said:

I have read through this topic and I am still no wiser why the OP posted it 🤔 I must be one of the regressive's 🤔

I'm off to read the car's section or the air rifle one, this is too deep for me.

If you can be bothered to go through the forum, there are some other threads with very rude and personal insults aimed at him by a very small minority of people. I actually believe people should be free to do so, but others, should have the right to call it out how they see it also.