Keir Starmer in Berlin to "reset" Brexit

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Chancellor Scholz says "he 'can't go back to daily business" after the fatal Solingen attack in which three people were killed.

Of course he can, and he will.
There have been fatal knife attacks by (often illegal) migrants in Germany for the past 30 years, they just seem to have intensified lately https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_stabbings_in_Germany

And more often than not, blamed on mental illness than political or racial motivations, sound familiar ?
Sexual assault is up, petty crime is up, gang violence with foreign (often African or Middle eastern) perpetrators.
If the penny hasnt dropped by now, its never going to, the public just need to suck up the 'benefits' of uncontrolled 3rd world migration.

[CaptC]

[Newbie to this]

39 minutes ago, CaptC said:

[Vince Green]

42 minutes ago, CaptC said:

If only that were true. It just goes to show the extent of the misinformation that was flying around the Internet concerning Brexit.

The trouble is people believed it

[CaptC]

Johnson Mogg Davies etc all lied about the "Brexit benifits" - Can anyone give an example of just one? Cornwall was promised equal funding which never appeared. Farmers and fishermen were conned. Their markets shrank overnight and many have gone out of business. Brexit was the worst mistake this country has ever made and I cannot understand Brexiteers still thinking it was a good idea.

I was lucky enough to spend a month in Spain and France recently. Supermarket shelves bulging with fruit and veg that doesn't rot as soon as you get home. Wine prices over half what we pay in the UK. 

 

[old man]

1 hour ago, CaptC said:

Johnson Mogg Davies etc all lied about the "Brexit benifits" - Can anyone give an example of just one? Cornwall was promised equal funding which never appeared. Farmers and fishermen were conned. Their markets shrank overnight and many have gone out of business. Brexit was the worst mistake this country has ever made and I cannot understand Brexiteers still thinking it was a good idea.

I was lucky enough to spend a month in Spain and France recently. Supermarket shelves bulging with fruit and veg that doesn't rot as soon as you get home. Wine prices over half what we pay in the UK. 

 

A well-made point. 

I voted to leave hoping for better?🤣🤣🤣🤣 temporarily having forgotten just how selfish and utterly useless our lot of cretins were. The only thing they ever seem to do is give away? Affecting everyone but themselves.

Do I want to return, definitely not. The continentals especially France have always been a pain, trouble is we can't seem to field a proper trustworthy leader? Best not discuss the uncivil service?

But we are where we have been put?

[39TDS]

3 hours ago, CaptC said:

I was lucky enough to spend a month in Spain and France recently. Supermarket shelves bulging with fruit and veg that doesn't rot as soon as you get home. Wine prices over half what we pay in the UK. 

May well be true but it is nothing to do with Brexit

[12gauge82]

3 hours ago, CaptC said:

Johnson Mogg Davies etc all lied about the "Brexit benifits" - Can anyone give an example of just one? 

Easy, we have our sovereignty back. The country is ours to make good or mess up again. In the EU it wasn't. 

[Cosmicblue]

The Brexit question and associated answers are massively complicated.

- On the one hand it would have been good to have been shot of the EU dictating to the UK as to what we can and cannot do - people bought into that idea.

- The twerps like Johnson and Rees-Mogg then massively over simplified the facts that something that had been assembled over 40 years could be undone in 5 - was never going to happen,  They blurred the facts with emotive topics like illegal immigration which had zero to do with a single economic market.  The original idea of the single economic market was brilliant - where it went wrong was Britain's politicians not being robust with the EU bureaucrats and preventing interference with the running of the country.

- Starmer will be trying to build bridges back into one of the largest markets for the UK - Germany.   

Give it long enough and the UK will be back in some kind of European trading trading bloc....    

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Cosmicblue said:

Give it long enough and the UK will be back in some kind of European trading trading bloc.... 

I don't have a problem with a trading block. 

The original "Common Market" was fine ....... but it became much MUCH more than that with common currencies, common rules (unrelated to trading), having our fishing rights and border rights taken away.  There was even talk of a common defence force ...........

[CaptC]

48 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

May well be true but it is nothing to do with Brexit

It did involve Brexit because, thanks to Johnson and Co we can now only spend 90 days in the EU, I have to queue at a seperate passport control to get it stamped and next year we will all need visas!

20 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Easy, we have our sovereignty back. The country is ours to make good or mess up again. In the EU it wasn't. 

Brilliant! We can now dump sewage in the sea and rivers, spray banned chemicals on our fields and not be able to let our children use the Erasmus scheme!

[clangerman]

26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Easy, we have our sovereignty back. The country is ours to make good or mess up again. In the EU it wasn't. 

country is ours excellent news just nip down and shut the borders for us then! 

[12gauge82]

13 minutes ago, CaptC said:

It did involve Brexit because, thanks to Johnson and Co we can now only spend 90 days in the EU, I have to queue at a seperate passport control to get it stamped and next year we will all need visas!

Brilliant! We can now dump sewage in the sea and rivers, spray banned chemicals on our fields and not be able to let our children use the Erasmus scheme!

That's ignoring all the positive things we could decide to do and you know it. 

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

country is ours excellent news just nip down and shut the borders for us then! 

Here's the thing, the uk voted for Labour and before that the Cons. If we want change we need to vote for it. The point is it's now in our hands, not other foreign countries. 

[oowee]

Just now, 12gauge82 said:

That's ignoring all the positive things we could decide to do and you know it. 

There are none. There is simply nothing positive. We cannot do as we want because we want to trade, we live in a global market place. The world belongs to the strong. The weak just get kicked around the playground. 

We have our sovereignty 🤣 What is that???? 

For crying out loud its costing us thousands in inflation, loss of trade, loss of opportunity, restriction of freedoms. Now we are outside of the club following the rules of others that we have no control over. The trade deals are carp, we are turned over like a right kipper. All as we can do is moan about immigrants when the biggest issue is those that were born here shafting us for some fantasy. 

[clangerman]

the gullible have just saddled us with yet another bunch of self serving scumbags and your still telling me voting works? will just step outside have a real urge to laugh my head of lol 

[discobob]

On 28/08/2024 at 15:48, Rewulf said:

There have been fatal knife attacks by (often illegal) migrants in Germany for the past 30 years, they just seem to have intensified

Even longer. My troop sergeant done some time in the glasshouse after his best mate was stabbed and killed by a Turk, and he went down the town and beat some up. So, that would have been in the seventies 

[welsh1]

30 minutes ago, oowee said:

There are none. There is simply nothing positive. We cannot do as we want because we want to trade, we live in a global market place. The world belongs to the strong. The weak just get kicked around the playground. 

We have our sovereignty 🤣 What is that???? 

For crying out loud its costing us thousands in inflation, loss of trade, loss of opportunity, restriction of freedoms. Now we are outside of the club following the rules of others that we have no control over. The trade deals are carp, we are turned over like a right kipper. All as we can do is moan about immigrants when the biggest issue is those that were born here shafting us for some fantasy. 

Other countries in the EU are having bigger problems with inflation, and their growth forcasts are behind the uk's.
When we were in the eu we couldn't just create a trade partnership with another country, it had to be sanctioned by the eu, who often said no unless they got a cut, now we are free to join other trade blocks around the world the pan asian one being recent and the potential to be huge. the problem with this country is people who moan because they didn't get their way and don't want to be part of a democratic desision.

So you spend 10 mins longer in customs when going to europe, I went on the trike to france a month ago it was no slower than when i went in the car 16 years ago, and £7 for a visa, most of you spend that on coffee each day, most countries charge it, heck most people in london are robbed of £12 every day with a congestion charge.

We are out of the EU, we still trade with them because that's what countries do, and both sides of that trade have rules.

The only thing that is bad about leaving the eu is the stupid politicians who didn't sort it out, thy are to blame for the stupid situation we find ourselves in over parts of the leaving agreament, and peope who whinge on and on about how bad everything is and how their 3rd born will be denied the change to know what "freedom" to roam in europe was like (as if they care).

[12gauge82]

52 minutes ago, oowee said:

There are none. There is simply nothing positive. We cannot do as we want because we want to trade, we live in a global market place. The world belongs to the strong. The weak just get kicked around the playground. 

We have our sovereignty 🤣 What is that???? 

For crying out loud its costing us thousands in inflation, loss of trade, loss of opportunity, restriction of freedoms. Now we are outside of the club following the rules of others that we have no control over. The trade deals are carp, we are turned over like a right kipper. All as we can do is moan about immigrants when the biggest issue is those that were born here shafting us for some fantasy. 

There are many. You are simply not having an honest conversation due to your dislike of leaving. With a change as big as Brexit, it's obviously going to have both pros and cons, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. I can admit that as a staunch Brexiteer, I don't know why you can't to. 

[oowee]

It's easy to get higher growth from a low base.

We can of course create trade deals with whoever. Iceland, and Australia wont give us much but crack on. The same with other trade blocks. Our big partner (the big money) is next door but we choose to make trade so much harder. Listen to any business that is trading with the EU what are they saying?

Customs and passport control 🤣🤣🤣 Who cares its small beer? Erasmus, freedom of movement and education and research, recognition of qualifications is big beer. 

Pan Asian trade 🤣🤣🤣 Please. Next we will be saying we want to cut down on immigration. 

We still trade with the EU. Larger companies follow the rules and the smaller ones pay the price. We have lost thousands upon thousands of jobs. Look at how the tax pips are squeaking and yet our country is falling apart. 

The only thing bad about leaving the EU was leaving the EU. 

 

[armsid]

We have control of our own destiny not being told what to do by a bunch of unelected beuarocrats in Brussels Look what happened to our sheep that went to France the lorries got burnt on the docks because the French farmers did not want our competition or animals. Scotland lost its deep sea fishing fleets in favour of Spanish and French vessels How many jobs did that cost and why did it happen why did no one in gov challenge it Germany has ring fenced steel production to keep it cheaper than imports from the UK and other sources which is against the rules but nothing is done Level playing field the EU no way. Look how they sorted out covid vaccines Hungary went to Russia we ordered from holland  the EU gestapo the commision stopped it but never blocked Hungary Want a job in France no chance unless your great uncle fought in Napoleonic War We have no industry to talk about it has all gone either to Europe or elsewhere as we have become too lazy to keep our industry and have no training facillities like we had when Britain could not produce fast enough to fulfill the orders from exports

[12gauge82]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

 We have lost thousands upon thousands of jobs. Look at how the tax pips are squeaking and yet our country is falling apart. 

 

Oh dear. Perhaps we shouldn't have let millions of migrants in after all? 

[oowee]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

There are many. You are simply not having an honest conversation due to your dislike of leaving. With a change as big as Brexit, it's obviously going to have both pros and cons, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. I can admit that as a staunch Brexiteer, I don't know why you can't to. 

There are none, none. I cannot walk out my house and say 'now I have sovereign status i am so much better off' without sounding like a complete ....

Almost every week I come across another pita that comes from Brexit. 

I sail my boat to France. I cant come back to the UK as I have a dog. I have to drive to France to bring him back on a ferry.  I leave my boat in Spain I have to sail out into the Atlantic to avoid VAT. I can only stay in Portugal for 3 months if I did not have a euro wife. I better not get sick as I won't get health care. 

7 minutes ago, armsid said:

We have control of our own destiny

🤣 We don't. We live in a global market place. The biggest buyers make the rules. 

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Oh dear. Perhaps we shouldn't have let millions of migrants in after all? 

They would not be a problem if we were not cycling debt. We will soon (its already started) exchange Euro labour for Asian with vastly larger family dependencies. 

[armsid]

Why do we need to import jobs Get the ones here to work instead of sitting in Wetherspoons drinking and getting money for nothing. It is utter stupidity to have people on the dole who are fit and able to work and pay their way but the Gov wont make them then bring in labour to do the jobs that could be done by those drawing tax free benifits  and housing costs

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

There are none, none. I cannot walk out my house and say 'now I have sovereign status i am so much better off' without sounding like a complete ....

Almost every week I come across another pita that comes from Brexit. 

I sail my boat to France. I cant come back to the UK as I have a dog. I have to drive to France to bring him back on a ferry.  I leave my boat in Spain I have to sail out into the Atlantic to avoid VAT. I can only stay in Portugal for 3 months if I did not have a euro wife. I better not get sick as I won't get health care. 

🤣 We don't. We live in a global market place. The biggest buyers make the rules. 

They would not be a problem if we were not cycling debt. We will soon (its already started) exchange Euro labour for Asian with vastly larger family dependencies. 

Here's the thing, your prioritys are clearly not those of the vast majority of UK citizens. I'm in no way gloating at that, but it is clearly a fact. In a democratic system, that's the way the cookie crumbles. 

Regarding the dog, I too regularly go to France and have no problems, some of my dogs are on pet passports, others I simply vaccinate and worm as required, few vet forms and job done. 

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Here's the thing, your prioritys are clearly not those of the vast majority of UK citizens. I'm in no way gloating at that, but it is clearly a fact. In a democratic system, that's the way the cookie crumbles. 

Regarding the dog, I too regularly go to France and have no problems, some of my dogs are on pet passports, others I simply vaccinate and worm as required, few vet forms and job done. 

 

I fully accept that my priorities (from an EU access and use perspective) are different from most. That said we are all impoverished as a result of the process. Our freedoms have been curtailed. We are all paying a huge price. Trade has had a severe kick in the goolies. We have wage inflation and a severe shortage of workers. We have inflation exacerbated by transport and trade control costs. 

It's a democratic choice but it does not make it good for the people choosing to leave. We are where we are and we are paying the price.

Just remember that with the next boat load of immigrants we cannot stop, the next time the NHS fails to deliver, the rise in taxes, the train drivers pay demands, sewage in the rivers ............................................. It's endless. None of it directly as result of Brexit but all magnified and exacerbated as a result.  

Anyways, enough for now. I have to find a route to the North coast of Spain for next year 😁

Next will come the drive for lower standards.