Here we go(license increase)

[HantsRob]

11 minutes ago, PJ M said:

The Police already make a profit from processing licences and if like me you pay council tax then you are paying for their services twice over.  And lets face it they do very little else for their money these days.

I don't see why, once issued a Shotgun licence shouldn't be for life. There is no reason whatsoever why it should have to be renewed every five years. You don't have to renew your driving licence every five years and we have seen quite recently how much carnage a car can cause when used in anger!   

 

I feel a lot of anger in that post, and frustration. I believe you are incorrect on several issues. 

With regards to covering cost of all elements of the licence processing, including overheads, they are not running a profit. Also the deficit is then covered by the council tax. What the full recovery process is suggesting is that everyone else doesn't have to pay for your licence application and renewal. In the world of business and finance, they are not profiting as it stands today. I would however agree for simple renewals that this would absorb some of the overhead costs for complex cases, and to pay towards issues that result in revocation, storage etc. Whilst you may argue storage is free or covered elsewhere, overhead allocation will say otherwise.

Whilst you may not see a shorter than life term is appropriate, there are very few things that are ever issued for life. There are many documented reasons why every 5 years is a potentially good idea, and if you look at the revocations every year that are missed by BAU activities, it's a very good idea. I think the better argument here is that BAU should report better, which would then negate a 5 year period.

Your comment about your driving licence is partly valid, you don't renew it every 5. But you are forced to do it every 10. Or, when you turn 70. By your own comment, maybe driving licences should either renew more frequently, or we need more driving tests to prevent such carnage a car can cause when used in anger?

 

In short, your comment is talking about treating the symptom, but not the cause.
For example: If we could have Doctors and Police working on tangible reports/evidence on ill health, safety concerns, and Police involved occurrences, we could negate the need for shorter and costly licence re-checks, rather than them only appearing on the 5 year check.

Finally, the mandated doctors checks should have negated many of the concerns around reporting ill health and unsuitability, however this is not working efficiently if at all. If that system worked as intended, it could have meant we could leverage our shooting organisations such as "the voice of shooters" (other organisations are available) to fight for longer certification. 

 

Sometimes the wrong argument is presented, and whilst we fight around symptoms and not causes, we will get no-where.

HantsRob's 5 penneth. FWIW.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, PJ M said:

The Police already make a profit from processing licences and if like me you pay council tax then you are paying for their services twice over.  And lets face it they do very little else for their money these days.

I don't see why, once issued a Shotgun licence shouldn't be for life. There is no reason whatsoever why it should have to be renewed every five years. You don't have to renew your driving licence every five years and we have seen quite recently how much carnage a car can cause when used in anger!   

 

As far as I’m aware the Police don’t make profit at all, from anything. They are funded in the most part by Central Government via allocated grants, unless I’m mistaken. 
The idea of a 10 year license was mentioned some time ago, and I first recall it while in discussion with a BASC rep’ at the time ( Mike, whose surname escapes me. He was a retired copper. If anyone can recall his name I’d be very grateful ) when the inclusion of a GP’s report into the licensing procedure was first mooted, that BASC would push for a 10 year ticket as a compromise. As we all know it didn’t happen, but with the advent of ‘flags’ in a persons medical record, I can’t see what the problem is.  

[enfieldspares]

On 31/12/2024 at 19:35, Graham M said:

Another way to cut down on all of the "Arsenals" in the country 

It is only when these "arsenals" are owned by "sad loners" that they become a concern. You never see newspaper headlines "arsenal of weapons owned by happy family man".

Edited January 3 by enfieldspares

[Scully]

Mike Eveleigh! Nice bloke; as frustrated as much as I with all the nonsensical and agenda driven carp we’re dished out and helpless to  do anything about but accept. 
His name has just been sent to me by a very helpful PW member. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC has condemned the government’s decision to increase firearms licensing fees in England, Scotland and Wales without fixing the inefficiencies undermining the current system.

 

https://basc.org.uk/basc-condemns-proposed-firearms-fees-hike-as-a-threat-to-public-safety/

Written statement by Policing Minister:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2025-01-15/hcws366

New fees that are due to come into force on 5 February 2025:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/circular-0012025-firearms-variation-of-fees-order-2025/circular-0012025-firearms-variation-of-fees-order-2025

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good work BASC, let's hope someone in power sees some sense.

 

I wrote to Dame Diana and she didn't even send a confirmation of receipt of my email.

Edited 6 hours ago by TIGHTCHOKE

[TIGHTCHOKE]

From Dame Diana's explanation;

"It is essential for both public safety and police efficiency that full cost recovery fees are introduced so that service improvements can be made. The need to increase fees to help address shortcomings in firearms licensing was highlighted as essential for public safety by the Senior Coroner in his Preventing Future Deaths reports into the fatal shootings in Plymouth in August 2021.

Addressing the NEED for those in Firearms Licensing to do their jobs PROPERLY would be a damned good starting point.

[eightlittlebits]

Not as bad as feared.

Circular 001/2025: Firearms (Variation of Fees) Order 2025 - GOV.UK

Licence type	Fee for full-cost recovery
Grant of firearms certificate	£198
Renewal of firearm certificate	£131
Grant of shotgun certificate	£194
Renewal of shotgun certificate	£126

 

And in the written statement announcing it:

Written statements - Written questions, answers and statements - UK Parliament

The Government’s manifesto commitment refers to the money raised by full cost recovery fees being used to support youth interventions to prevent serious violence. However, we have decided instead that firearms fees income must be retained by police forces to support improvements in police firearms licensing. Delivering the youth interventions element of the manifesto commitment remains a priority and will be funded by the Home Office.

Edited 6 hours ago by eightlittlebits

[Poor Shot]

Seems reasonable.. 

The question is, is that level of cost required to sustain the current service levels (absolute **** and an embarrassment in most parts) or will an improved level of service and a return to 12 week grants and renewals be possible? 

I'm going with the former personally. 

[Gordon R]

How do you cure dreadful judgement in Licensing Departments? After thinking for hours, I came up with a solution - more money. It's akin to "global warming" . Whatever the problem - more tax, more cost. Solves nothing, but it brings in revenue.

[old'un]

Looking at the costs it would make sense for any new shooters to go for the Coterminous grant of firearm and shotgun certificates.

Must admit, I thought the new fees were going to be higher, but having said that I wonder how many will be pushed out of shooting with this higher cost.

[mossy835]

im sure a lot will drop out if the fees go up.and that is what they want.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

As long as the price increase leads to a much more efficient service, at the moment it is generally bloody awful across the country.

[jall25]

Anyone dropping out for this increase surely was / os not much of a shooter though are they ?

[old'un]

6 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

im sure a lot will drop out if the fees go up.and that is what they want.

Looks like RFD have been hit hard, gone from £200 3yrs to £466 3yrs, will we see more shutting up shop?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, jall25 said:

Anyone dropping out for this increase surely was / os not much of a shooter though are they ?

A very valid point, but it will ONLY reduce the number of decent law abiding people who hold firearms.

[old'un]

12 minutes ago, jall25 said:

Anyone dropping out for this increase surely was / os not much of a shooter though are they ?

Not everyone who enjoys shooting as deep pockets.

[welsh1]

Glad i got my new certificates last week, gives me 5 yrs to save for the next one .

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, welsh1 said:

Glad i got my new certificates last week, gives me 5 yrs to save for the next one .

Self, self, self, rub it in why don't you?

[mossy835]

6 minutes ago, old'un said:

Not everyone who enjoys shooting as deep pockets.

 

 

this

[TIGHTCHOKE]

10 minutes ago, old'un said:

Not everyone who enjoys shooting as deep pockets.

That will NOT worry the police or the government.

[wymberley]

For the six main categories - FAC, SGC and Coterm' grants and renewals -  this equates to an average 222% increase in round figures. I feel a letter to my MP coming on.

[jall25]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

Not everyone who enjoys shooting as deep pockets.

I understand that Old Un - but is it not circa £25 more over a full year ?

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

A very valid point, but it will ONLY reduce the number of decent law abiding people who hold firearms.

 

Hi Tightchoke - maybe it will - maybe it wont

Currently many (some) are put of with the hassle and timescale of applying - Think in some counties its years ! Maybe a more efficient - well run - professional service will not put people off

Im very lucky as Derbyshire is already simply superb 

[Yellow Bear]

About the same as a rod licence then

[Red carp]

I’ll settle for £126 for renewal but I can’t see a better service developing, if it had gone up to £400 then that would have resulted in a huge number giving up. I had a round of clays today & the place was empty except for two other shooters before Covid the ground was very busy midweek it’s a bloody shame 😩

Edited 3 hours ago by Red carp