Ukraine, Russia, UK and Europe?

[spanj]

On 20/02/2025 at 10:26, NoBodyImportant said:

Not to sound like I hate the rest of the world but I paid over $45,000 USD in taxes last year.  I think Europe should pitch in a little for the defense of Europe. We are struggling over here. 

Absolutely zero relevance. Every working person in every country pays tax. The UK certainly filled US coffers for WW2. I agree Europe should defend itself and pay for it too

[spanj]

On 21/02/2025 at 10:31, London Best said:

Hopefully, he will want the U.K. to be the 51st. State. 
It is likely our best chance for a future.

If you think we are in a bad way you need to travel through some of the US Southern states …….. shocking. Dont know about the other states

[spanj]

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

Yes they have, USA, UK, France, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Turkey, to name a few.

The Syria debacle being the latest.

 

Also as per Ukrainian constitution, any of the oblasts could hold a referendum to secede and become independant, they (Donbass etc) and others tried to (Odessa) and Ukraine immediately invaded them with Neo Nazis army battalions.

 

 

Putin is democratically elected by the people of Russia and operates under the Duma's instructions. He is not, nor ever has been a dictator.

Just because you don't like the fact he has 80%+ support of the Russian people doesn't make him a dictator.

What you don't really seem to understand is that Putin is a 'moderate' in Russian terms.....Medelev and a few others for example would have likely started by nuking Kiev and/or Lviv on day 1.

Really, the Russians have a free vote …… enjoys 80% support etc. just because he is the least bad option (sound familiar?) doesn't make him or his actions OK

[London Best]

33 minutes ago, spanj said:

If you think we are in a bad way you need to travel through some of the US Southern states …….. shocking. Dont know about the other states

I have, several times. Most recently six months ago.

[NoBodyImportant]

9 hours ago, Stonepark said:

Yes they have, USA, UK, France, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Turkey, to name a few.

The Syria debacle being the latest.

 

Also as per Ukrainian constitution, any of the oblasts could hold a referendum to secede and become independant, they (Donbass etc) and others tried to (Odessa) and Ukraine immediately invaded them with Neo Nazis army battalions.

 

 

Putin is democratically elected by the people of Russia and operates under the Duma's instructions. He is not, nor ever has been a dictator.

Just because you don't like the fact he has 80%+ support of the Russian people doesn't make him a dictator.

What you don't really seem to understand is that Putin is a 'moderate' in Russian terms.....Medelev and a few others for example would have likely started by nuking Kiev and/or Lviv on day 1.

This,  you hit the nail on the head.  

[NoBodyImportant]

8 hours ago, spanj said:

Absolutely zero relevance. Every working person in every country pays tax. The UK certainly filled US coffers for WW2. I agree Europe should defend itself and pay for it too

Wrong, you don’t understand lend lease.  Most people do not. America footed the bill.  UK and allies only paid for the stuff they kept after the war.  Any equipment that was destroyed or consumed America did not charge for. Every tank, plane, ship that was destroyed and every bullet that was fired was not charged for. After the war the UK had the option of returning equipment or buying it at 10% of the cost.  Meaning if it cost American a 100 dollars to build the UK could kept it for 10 cent.  Quite frankly the allies could never have afforded repayment of the financial burden if America would have charged them in full.  America was more worried about rebuilding Europe than getting repaid. 

[spanj]

15 hours ago, London Best said:

I have, several times. Most recently six months ago.

Impressed ?

7 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Wrong, you don’t understand lend lease.  Most people do not. America footed the bill.  UK and allies only paid for the stuff they kept after the war.  Any equipment that was destroyed or consumed America did not charge for. Every tank, plane, ship that was destroyed and every bullet that was fired was not charged for. After the war the UK had the option of returning equipment or buying it at 10% of the cost.  Meaning if it cost American a 100 dollars to build the UK could kept it for 10 cent.  Quite frankly the allies could never have afforded repayment of the financial burden if America would have charged them in full.  America was more worried about rebuilding Europe than getting repaid. 

I stand corrected. Apologies

[London Best]

1 hour ago, spanj said:

Impressed ?

Everything was certainly more expensive than the last time we visited under Trump,  food, fuel etc., but you can thank the Lefty Democrat government for that. We were not impressed with New Orleans at all, it’s a drug riddled dump. Drove across Louisiana, right across Texas, through New Mexico and Arizona as far as Pheonix. That was first time in Louisiana and Texas. Enjoyed what we saw of Texas but need to see more of it. Very impressive. 
Generally, the standard of living everywhere appears higher than U.K.

ps have visited about two dozen states overall.

Edited February 23 by London Best

[Shadowchaser]

Regarding the state of our own armed forces I'm reminded of a quote I once read, "The English never see the writing on the wall until they have their backs to it."

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Shadowchaser said:

Regarding the state of our own armed forces I'm reminded of a quote I once read, "The English never see the writing on the wall until they have their backs to it."

Attributed to the American vice-president Adlai Stevenson.

And quite true.

[B686]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Everything was certainly more expensive than the last time we visited under Trump,  food, fuel etc., but you can thank the Lefty Democrat government for that. We were not impressed with New Orleans at all, it’s a drug riddled dump. Drove across Louisiana, right across Texas, through New Mexico and Arizona as far as Pheonix. That was first time in Louisiana and Texas. Enjoyed what we saw of Texas but need to see more of it. Very impressive. 
Generally, the standard of living everywhere appears higher than U.K.

ps have visited about two dozen states overall.

I’m on holiday in Dubai at the moment and we were out yesterday on a trip dune bashing in a 4x4 and we were sharing it with a couple from Texas and was chatting to them and they were saying how glad they were that trump was in power and how sad that they thought our government was turning the uk into an Islamic state. Said they had visited here 15 years ago but wouldn’t fancy it now.

[NoBodyImportant]

3 hours ago, London Best said:

Everything was certainly more expensive than the last time we visited under Trump,  food, fuel etc., but you can thank the Lefty Democrat government for that. We were not impressed with New Orleans at all, it’s a drug riddled dump. Drove across Louisiana, right across Texas, through New Mexico and Arizona as far as Pheonix. That was first time in Louisiana and Texas. Enjoyed what we saw of Texas but need to see more of it. Very impressive. 
Generally, the standard of living everywhere appears higher than U.K.

ps have visited about two dozen states overall.

New Orleans is a different world.  I was there for 3 days last year and saw 5000 sets of boobies, two people OD on drugs, and a Jamaican girl bite the head off of a chicken. 

[Raja Clavata]

Looks like there’s a European led counter proposal on the table regarding the minerals deal.
 

Still don’t quite know what to make of the US voting with Russia in the UNGA but I guess choices have consequences.

[holloway]

On 23/02/2025 at 02:47, NoBodyImportant said:

Wrong, you don’t understand lend lease.  Most people do not. America footed the bill.  UK and allies only paid for the stuff they kept after the war.  Any equipment that was destroyed or consumed America did not charge for. Every tank, plane, ship that was destroyed and every bullet that was fired was not charged for. After the war the UK had the option of returning equipment or buying it at 10% of the cost.  Meaning if it cost American a 100 dollars to build the UK could kept it for 10 cent.  Quite frankly the allies could never have afforded repayment of the financial burden if America would have charged them in full.  America was more worried about rebuilding Europe than getting repaid. 

These paragraphs have long been forgotten when discussing the reasons for the land lease bill . 

[islandgun]

In recent history wars were fought for oil, now I wonder as the push for EV,s is gaining strength are new wars about lithium and graphite

[NoBodyImportant]

According to what Trump said today they are trying to find the exact cost of the Ukrainian war to the American Taxpayer but it over 350billion.  

[NoBodyImportant]

16 hours ago, holloway said:

These paragraphs have long been forgotten when discussing the reasons for the land lease bill . 

Yes it took several months to start the American war time production.  But once America manufacturing might got started it was impossible for the axis powers to win. America went into the war with 7 aircraft carriers and by the end of the war America had built and launched 151 carriers not counting the 17 aircraft incomplete carriers the America scrapped after the Japanese surrender. Japan built 19 total.  Manufacturing won the war.  But we needed time to switch our production lines to weapons and to time train soldiers. 

[holloway]

13 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

Yes it took several months to start the American war time production.  But once America manufacturing might got started it was impossible for the axis powers to win. America went into the war with 7 aircraft carriers and by the end of the war America had built and launched 151 carriers not counting the 17 aircraft incomplete carriers the America scrapped after the Japanese surrender. Japan built 19 total.  Manufacturing won the war.  But we needed time to switch our production lines to weapons and to time train soldiers. 

It shows what is needed 👍manufacturing efficiency and if you don't prepare your in trouble , a lesson that i think Mr Trump is getting us to better understand .

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, Now if Trump gets his way with the deal getting the  Minerals from Ukraine , How will Putin react to that ??

[Stonepark]

4 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Now if Trump gets his way with the deal getting the  Minerals from Ukraine , How will Putin react to that ??

Trump is already engaging with Russia to buy their minerals as well......

Should be noted the minerals for sale by Ukraine do not include those within the 4 former Ukranian regions or Crimea.

[enfieldspares]

On 17/02/2025 at 08:36, welsh1 said:

There should be a law pased first that all MP's children of fighting age should be the first to be drafted to the front line, maybe then they would think twice about their idiotic ideas and the waste of life wars give.

Years ago when politicians were mostly "toffs" they did. The Queen Mother's two brothers were killed in WWI and also the son of Theodore Roosevelt was killed. Asquith's too plus the father of Lord Longford. But you'll never see the Blair kids, Jack Straw's kids, Boris Johnson's kids or etc. in uniform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_parliamentarians_who_died_in_the_First_World_War

[semi-auto]

According to relevant news items on the subject, the US has contributed just £115m to Ukraine, not the lie Trump keeps telling (and corrected by Macron and then ignored with a wave of the hand) £350m. In fact according to the figures, in total, Europe has contributed more than the US! I expect that Trump believes that if he keeps telling the same lie enough times, people will begin to believe him, especially the Americans!

[semi-auto]

26 minutes ago, semi-auto said:

According to relevant news items on the subject, the US has contributed just £115m to Ukraine, not the lie Trump keeps telling (and corrected by Macron and then ignored with a wave of the hand) £350m. In fact according to the figures, in total, Europe has contributed more than the US! I expect that Trump believes that if he keeps telling the same lie enough times, people will begin to believe him, especially the Americans!

Oops! They already do!

[BRYAN3]

Perhaps Trumpy has started the count from 2014.

[johnphilip]

3 hours ago, semi-auto said:

According to relevant news items on the subject, the US has contributed just £115m to Ukraine, not the lie Trump keeps telling (and corrected by Macron and then ignored with a wave of the hand) £350m. In fact according to the figures, in total, Europe has contributed more than the US! I expect that Trump believes that if he keeps telling the same lie enough times, people will begin to believe him, especially the Americans!

That figure does not buy a lot the figure you  speak of £115m in. Items of war. 

 

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine#:~:text=To date%2C we have provided,invasion of Ukraine in 2014.