Scully Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I emailed animal aid yesterday asking if their campaign included any plans to monitor Halal meat slaughtering methods also, but so far haven't heard anything. Perhaps their media centre staff is on his lunch break. I see they are also concerned about the methods by which chickens are gathered in rearing sheds prior to slaughter; citing them being picked up four in each hand by their 'frail' legs. Some of the lads where I used to work could carry more than four in each hand. While I can't agree with wanton cruelty or mistreatment of any creature, I can also see how working in such places on a day to day basis may eventually numb a persons sensitivities to a degree. They aren't pleasant places to work; six months or so was enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I try to be realistic about slaughter, I'm a countryman and I've been around animals long enough to know what happens and I've seen it enough times, including slaughtering my own poultry.However, the one thing that has really upset me in the past was with a cow that was struggling with a large calf. The vet attended and decided that a caesarean wasn't practical so the cow went for slaughter. The cow died with a live calf still inside her and so that calf had to die as well. I wish now that someone had had the foresight to shoot the cow on the farm and at least try to get the calf out alive. Rules are rules I suppose but that situation seemed so wrong to me. Was this a while ago. Reason I ask is that is the complete oppressive to what happened to me with injured stock. I had 2 pigs booked into slaughter before Christmas when I was loading them 1 pig decided to jump over the fence this fence has held I guess 50 pigs over the years and never has one tried this escape route. Long story short the pig had Broken a back leg. I phone the abattoir to let them know of what had happened and they did not want the pig at there place, the reason was with a ministry vet onsite inspecting the animals they and I would be opening our selfs up for animal cruelty charges by transporting a injured animal to slaughter. I had 3 options get the vet to deal with it or get a fallen stock man in to shoot it or shoot it myself. Luckily I know a man who deals with fallen stock who is also on PW. He can swiftly round and gave it a .357 to the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 4 Hours in a Chicken factory was enough for me. Some of the people on the live hanging section where I was working were, simply put, simple. I think that CCTV would be good but not perticularly cruelty wise where poultry is concerned-but it might make people wake up and realise the wretched state of these mass produced birds, birds that can barely stand because they are too weak and their bodies are too big, birds with broken legs (easily done if the bird simply struggles as you try to hang it) being thrown into skips and dumped to be eaten by Rats. If people could see this practice they might ,just might, demand better living standars for our Poultry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Have received email this aft' from Kate Fowler, who said they are campaigning for CCTV 'in all slaughter houses- for both stunned and non-stunned slaughter'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Whilst you're all falling over yourselves to support Animal Aid it might be worth noting their stance on shooting and fieldsports. Regardless of how you feel about slaughter houses giving support to that kind of organisation is akin to turkeys voting for xmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmytree Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Was this a while ago. Reason I ask is that is the complete oppressive to what happened to me with injured stock. I had 2 pigs booked into slaughter before Christmas when I was loading them 1 pig decided to jump over the fence this fence has held I guess 50 pigs over the years and never has one tried this escape route. Long story short the pig had Broken a back leg. I phone the abattoir to let them know of what had happened and they did not want the pig at there place, the reason was with a ministry vet onsite inspecting the animals they and I would be opening our selfs up for animal cruelty charges by transporting a injured animal to slaughter. I had 3 options get the vet to deal with it or get a fallen stock man in to shoot it or shoot it myself. Luckily I know a man who deals with fallen stock who is also on PW. He can swiftly round and gave it a .357 to the head. Yes it was some years ago, never forgotten it though. My 2 oldest kids were present hoping to see a live birth but having to explain to them was very difficult. It hasn't happened on that farm since but they don't use the same vet either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jega Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Definitely a good thing, why anybody would want to put a animal through unnecessary suffering is beyond me. I've always been taught to respect my quarry. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Was this a while ago. Reason I ask is that is the complete oppressive to what happened to me with injured stock. I had 2 pigs booked into slaughter before Christmas when I was loading them 1 pig decided to jump over the fence this fence has held I guess 50 pigs over the years and never has one tried this escape route. Long story short the pig had Broken a back leg. I phone the abattoir to let them know of what had happened and they did not want the pig at there place, the reason was with a ministry vet onsite inspecting the animals they and I would be opening our selfs up for animal cruelty charges by transporting a injured animal to slaughter. I had 3 options get the vet to deal with it or get a fallen stock man in to shoot it or shoot it myself. Luckily I know a man who deals with fallen stock who is also on PW. He can swiftly round and gave it a .357 to the head. That sounds right, but also wrong, ALL animals are inspected by an OV (cursory albeit) before slaughter and inspected by a meat hygiene inspector (sometimes the same person) after dressed, the only person to get in trouble would be you for transporting an injured animal. Glad you got your pig sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 That sounds right, but also wrong, ALL animals are inspected by an OV (cursory albeit) before slaughter and inspected by a meat hygiene inspector (sometimes the same person) after dressed, the only person to get in trouble would be you for transporting an injured animal. Glad you got your pig sorted. we are allowed to slaughter our sheep at home for our own consumption, is this not the case in England ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 In the vast vast majority of slaughter houses the simple facrt is there is NO creulty, beiing cruel to animals would generally stress them more and possibly damage the meat neither would make ur day job any easier or spoil the end product so why do it?? Those of u that think it is a good idea, do u know any folk that work in the meat/slaughter trade? or ever been inside a slaughter house? Or do u just believe everything a goupo like AA tell u, not always the most open minded place to get ur info from Yes there will be odd exceptions but in general the slaughtering in this country will have some of the highest stanards of both welfare and hygene in the world, I will guarrantee u cannot say that about most of the imported meat. There is boats loads of frozen beef coming in from africa and S america. Do u really think any of that is treated the same way or slaughtered to the same standard. I used to shoot with a fella who owned farms in Brazil and he himself said we should not be importing meat from there, where F&M is common as well as other diseases On the face if it like many things if have nothing to hide u have nothing to fear. Wot will their next petion be CCTV on all farms, or all farmers to wear 'go pro' cameras at all times to make sure their not being cruel. off camera. Impartial camera men on ALL driven shoots making sure a high enough % of birds are cleanly killed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 we are allowed to slaughter our sheep at home for our own consumption, is this not the case in England ? As long as you don't you don't sell it and use it for 'own' consumption'. How you get rid of the bits isn't my business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 A lot of supermarket lamb and chicken is hala these days ive seen videos of gassing pigs in a Australian slaughter house and that didn't seem humane to me what happen to the old captive bolt gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Whilst you're all falling over yourselves to support Animal Aid it might be worth noting their stance on shooting and fieldsports. Regardless of how you feel about slaughter houses giving support to that kind of organisation is akin to turkeys voting for xmas.I don't buy that. It's like saying no shooter should ever object to any animal cruelty or support any animal welfare initiative on the off chance Animal Aid share the same view. I get that they are extreme vegans who would stop all live quarry shooting and probably all meat eating if they could, but I can differentiate between their loony animal rights extremism and genuine issues worthy of support. I'm never going to join them or put money in any tin they are rattling but ultimately on this particular issue I think they are right. I'm not supporting Animal Aid, I'm supporting the idea that CCTV in slaughterhouses will encourage good welfare practice and compliance with the law. I'd have signed the petition if it had been posted by the flat earth society or the LGBT wing of the Hell's Angels. Edited January 27, 2015 by Blunderbuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) In the vast vast majority of slaughter houses the simple facrt is there is NO creulty, beiing cruel to animals would generally stress them more and possibly damage the meat neither would make ur day job any easier or spoil the end product so why do it?? Those of u that think it is a good idea, do u know any folk that work in the meat/slaughter trade? or ever been inside a slaughter house? Or do u just believe everything a goupo like AA tell u, not always the most open minded place to get ur info from Yes there will be odd exceptions but in general the slaughtering in this country will have some of the highest stanards of both welfare and hygene in the world, I will guarrantee u cannot say that about most of the imported meat. There is boats loads of frozen beef coming in from africa and S america. Do u really think any of that is treated the same way or slaughtered to the same standard. I used to shoot with a fella who owned farms in Brazil and he himself said we should not be importing meat from there, where F&M is common as well as other diseases On the face if it like many things if have nothing to hide u have nothing to fear. Wot will their next petion be CCTV on all farms, or all farmers to wear 'go pro' cameras at all times to make sure their not being cruel. off camera. Impartial camera men on ALL driven shoots making sure a high enough % of birds are cleanly killed I'm not sure what your motive is here, imported meat we have no control over the welfare standards, which is why I buy british meat, we, as you've stated, have the highest welfare standards in Europe, our laws prescribe how animals are kept and slaughtered so the argument from the welfare groups is legitimate, to monitor careful, ethical handling and killing is part of the Animal Welfare Act.A lot of supermarket lamb and chicken is hala these days ive seen videos of gassing pigs in a Australian slaughter house and that didn't seem humane to me what happen to the old captive bolt gunCarbon dioxide stunning is used extensively in this country, the old captive bolt gun is ok for a local butcher, it's not for 10,000 pigs a day going through the process in one plant. No one in the right mind shoots pigs, sheep if you have to. Edited January 27, 2015 by kyska Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 If it was mandatory to play the footage in the shops next to the plastic packed meat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I have no motive other than not blindly believing everything some raving loony tells me, the vast majority of slaughter houses are not cruel or mistreat their animals, its not in their interest to mistreat the product. Quite a few of my mates all work in the trade and they are very proffessional. If a slaughter house was mistreating there animals word would soon get around and some farmers would refuse to sell there stock to them. And before anyone says that wouldnae happen, i know several farmers that won't take there stock to market on certain days as thats when certain religoins generally buyers turn up, so costing them money. If they insist on CCTV in slaughter houses, some where an animal will literaly spend minutes/hours (max) of its life, why not insist on CCTV in all livestock trailers most stock will spend far more of it's life in a trailer than a slaughter house. Will there next petition be CCTV in all farm sheds/races or sheep pens, after all that is where animals will spend most of there life? It's just the sort of nonsense campign u expect from looonies like them, not actually practical, and the problem there attempting to solve doesnae actually really exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm not sure what your motive is here, imported meat we have no control over the welfare standards, which is why I buy british meat, we, as you've stated, have the highest welfare standards in Europe, our laws prescribe how animals are kept and slaughtered so the argument from the welfare groups is legitimate, to monitor careful, ethical handling and killing is part of the Animal Welfare Act. Carbon dioxide stunning is used extensively in this country, the old captive bolt gun is ok for a local butcher, it's not for 10,000 pigs a day going through the process in one plant. No one in the right mind shoots pigs, sheep if you have to. we kill sheep in the field, no transport, no queues, no panic, no knowledge, .22 humane killer point blank and they drop to the ground, dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 and the problem there attempting to solve doesnae actually really exist http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terrified-horses-beaten-killed-sick-1544633 http://www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/010512/uk___essex_slaughtermen_jailed_.aspx http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-shocking-pig-abuse-caught-on-film-42954/album/incredible_pictures_show_london_bridges_then_and_now/2229 http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Environment/article329362.ece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyska Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm not sure what your motive is here, imported meat we have no control over the welfare standards, which is why I buy british meat, we, as you've stated, have the highest welfare standards in Europe, our laws prescribe how animals are kept and slaughtered so the argument from the welfare groups is legitimate, to monitor careful, ethical handling and killing is part of the Animal Welfare Act. Carbon dioxide stunning is used extensively in this country, the old captive bolt gun is ok for a local butcher, it's not for 10,000 pigs a day going through the process in one plant. No one in the right mind shoots pigs, sheep if you have to. we kill sheep in the field, no transport, no queues, no panic, no knowledge, .22 humane killer point blank and they drop to the ground, dead That's what I've just said, a captive bolt is a different thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Blunderbuss u've found 4 stories,how many animals do u think are slaughtered everyday? There will be a tiny % of rogues and i'm sure the meat inspectors have a good idea who they are so give them more powers. Putting cctv's inside a slaughter house is not really practical to cover 100% of areas from all angles, and if u done this and it showed they're waslittle/no charges to answer AA would only claim it's still going on in the blind spots. They have there own agenda and this is just a headline grabbing petiton. We're very lucky that almost all stock in UK is treated very well throughout its life. Perhaps they should be starting petions where we only allow imported meat where it has already been raised and slaughtered to the same high standards. That would really improve millions of animals lifes Rogue traders/cowboy builders run a tv series featuring loads of different trades cutting corners should all trades men be cctv'd at all times or all food factories have their employees monitored at all times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Scotslad please don't think I am having a pop at slaughtermen or abbatoirs. I don't doubt that the vast majority are ethical and compliant. I also know our welfare standards are probably the highest in the world. As a result, where possible I buy British. But there are occasional shocking abuses uncovered. I only posted the first four links I found, but there are plenty of others if you do a quick google. Some of the descriptions of what these low life do is shocking. There is simply no excuse for it and if CCTV makes the minority of sadists who do this stuff think twice, then its good enough for me. If the footage can only be accessed by officials, I don't see what the genuine businesses have to fear? I'm not sure the builder analogy works. Apart from the practicalities of covering every loft conversion, patio or conservatory build in the land, the implications of a wonky wall aren't the same in my mind as someone hitting a horse with an iron bar or burning a pig's face with cigarettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Having worked in a slaughter house for a bit, I can see the thinking behind it all to an extent. Do I see as a remedy ? No! If there are issue's with regards to animal welfare then its needs to be sorted at source. Why monitor premises that are not creating problems, its wasted time and money and put those resources wherever they are needed. Ive seen meat ruined brought on by stress, and it is ruined, some of it not fit for mince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Dougy has said far better wot i was trying to say. I'm sure the authorities meat inspectors know where potential problems could be. If u decide to go down the route of cctving slaughter houses then why not markets, livestock transporters or farmers as all have the same potential for cruelty (potentially more) if someone really wants to do stuff like that My builder/tradesman analogy was meant to highlight there is rogues in every trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie10 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Some people really want to give credit to these animal rights groups. There is enough rules and regulations in place than giving these pressure groups more airtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39TDS Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have no motive other than not blindly believing everything some raving loony tells me, the vast majority of slaughter houses are not cruel or mistreat their animals, its not in their interest to mistreat the product. Quite a few of my mates all work in the trade and they are very proffessional. If a slaughter house was mistreating there animals word would soon get around and some farmers would refuse to sell there stock to them. And before anyone says that wouldnae happen, i know several farmers that won't take there stock to market on certain days as thats when certain religoins generally buyers turn up, so costing them money. If they insist on CCTV in slaughter houses, some where an animal will literaly spend minutes/hours (max) of its life, why not insist on CCTV in all livestock trailers most stock will spend far more of it's life in a trailer than a slaughter house. Will there next petition be CCTV in all farm sheds/races or sheep pens, after all that is where animals will spend most of there life? It's just the sort of nonsense campign u expect from looonies like them, not actually practical, and the problem there attempting to solve doesnae actually really exist Far too sensible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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