TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 No, yes, no, no. The death penalty has no place in a civilised society. Nor does drug smuggling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Nor does drug smuggling! And yet drugs are still everywhere..., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 (edited) Whilst I am basically against the death penalty. Its their country its their Laws, yes they may be as mung says underlying reasons (more than likely) but its their country, the risks of the smugglers being caught where known , the potential outcome was known so nope no argument from me, and as one who has attended the funeral of a young relative late last year thanks to him taking drugs,all I can say is anything to stop the smugglers, who are spreading death and misery , is no bad thing at all. KW Yes those evil drug smugglers knew the risk (more like pathetic individuals in such dire circumstances they took a huge risk for the real drug smugglers who are atill alive and sending drugs with other mules, ie not deterred) How old was your relative who died from drugs? Were their parents any good? If so surely your relative knew there was a risk that taking drugs can kill you? So by your logic your relative made their bed just as much as these mules... Edited April 29, 2015 by southeastpete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 ALL DRUG TRAFFICKERS WILL BE EXECUTED I WOULD LOVE A SIGN LIKE THAT ON ALL OUR AIRPORTS,,,, those scumbags got exactly what they deserved, I understsnd what you mean but im not an absolutist so, quick question - would you apply that to ALL drug traffickers? Do you make a distinction between, say, heroin and cannabis? Or smuggled illegal alcohol and Viagra for that matter? Heroin, meth and to some extent cocaine can ruin lives, but so can alcohol, so a government's arbitrary regulation on which is legal seems an odd basis on which to take a life to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 And always will be. Something radical needs to be done, but 'We' ain't winning the war. And yet drugs are still everywhere..., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Mary Jane Veloso was spared the execution. Did see a letter that Manny Paquiao had sent to the Indonesian President asking him to spare her a day ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I dont get all this "Law of the land" rubbish, so you must also think being stoned to death for adultery is fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southeastpete Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I understsnd what you mean but im not an absolutist so, quick question - would you apply that to ALL drug traffickers? Do you make a distinction between, say, heroin and cannabis? Or smuggled illegal alcohol and Viagra for that matter? Heroin, meth and to some extent cocaine can ruin lives, but so can alcohol, so a government's arbitrary regulation on which is legal seems an odd basis on which to take a life to me. +1 And always will be. Something radical needs to be done, but 'We' ain't winning the war. Why does there need to be a war? There's no war on rape, or war on murder, or war on paedophilic swindling politicians etc. Ask anyone in the military, if your not 'winning a war' after this long, you need to change something. Big time. As has been said before, there are some very interesting documentaries out there, with research able evidence if anyone can be bothered. Netflix has a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 And the bad guys keep getting richer...., With the amount of money being made the serious criminals behind the drugs trade will never stand trial - in these countries they can buy the police, the judiciary and the government. So, 9 drugs mules previously out of action and incarcerated for 8 years have been shot and executed. How does that affect or change anything? Like I said, I'm ambivalent but I don't buy into walloping these 9 dopes changing anything or doing anything to affect the drugs trade one iota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Apparently the Indonesian government were losing support in national polls and so like the Romans they put on some executions to rally up the people and to become more popular. One wonders why drug traffickers caught 8 years ago were up for a bullet now? In a corrupt country what is achieved by executing a small percentage of drug mules, bearing in mind these mules are not the brains or the major profiteers. I'm still scratching my head as to what the war on drugs has achieved and or seeks to achieve? There are some interesting a fairly radical documentaries out there on the subject and whichever way you look at it shooting a few mules won't actually achieve anything. Don't get me wrong I'm fairly ambivalent on the subject of foreign countries whacking people but I make the point these executions are nothing more than a Roman spectacle and serve no other real purpose than that. Although still not the main profiteers they do try to execute the more intelligent and ruthless ones in the pecking order. Out of the real Bali nine,only Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran got the pill today and the drugs mules had pretty hefty prison sentences imposed.By all accounts they were not good fellas and ruled with threats if folk didnt play ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 They new the risks, they then took those risks and paid with their lives. No sympathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not a bad read: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/27/bali-nine-decade-of-turmoil-for-andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumaran-reaches-a-gruesome-end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sian Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Two things niggle at me with regard to this case: The law proceedings were not complete and if we are keen to quote the law is the law then see it through to the end The method in which they were executed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not a bad read: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/27/bali-nine-decade-of-turmoil-for-andrew-chan-and-myuran-sukumaran-reaches-a-gruesome-end I had it on live lead through the early morning but have no idea how to post. If you want to know about the actual boss,he lives in Sydney and won $5 million dollars on the lottery and has since stopped his dodgy dealings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The world is not run on "British" standards. If some of you consider that wrong go and tell the governments of those countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrM Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The world is not run on "British" standards. If some of you consider that wrong go and tell the governments of those countries. Hey maybe we could invite Blair back to go and have a "regime change" as we all backed him on that last time....oh wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuji Shooter Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 In the words of Metallica - "Kill em all" (Drug smugglers and dealers that is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Just read Munglers link,and then this one from the main article,thought it might interest some. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/06/death-penalty-in-indonesia-an-executioners-story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Some interesting points made, which have made me revisit my own views. That said, far too many concentrate on the fate of criminals, rather than their victims. Just a little odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fagus Sylvatica Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Indonesia's President Joko Widodo who came to power six months ago has proven to be a huge disappointment to a wide swathe of the electorate. Elected on promises of eradicating corruption, improving health care and infrastructure, the local currency has nose dived, foreign investors are reconsidering and corruption has remained endemic and unchecked, whilst development projects remain on the drawing board. The execution of foreign drug smugglers suits Indonesia's growing nationalist sentiments and goes down well with a largely, poorly educated population who are fed the line that 'neo colonialist governments think their citizens are above our sovereign laws'. Only recently, the Indonesian government protested in the strongest terms when one of its nationals was sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia. In the case of the two Australians who were put to death - one of whom; Myuran Sukumaran, incidentally was born in England, it appears they had become role model prisoners and had embraced the rehabilitation process. After all they had languished in jail for over ten years and had had plenty of time to reflect on their crimes. Corruption is entrenched in the Indonesian judiciary and a much harder line seems to be taken with foreign drug criminals than local nationals. The reality is that the military and police control the drug trade in Indonesia and are above the law. Any foreigner trying to run drugs through Indonesia must be out of their mind. As witnessed, you can expect no mercy and you shouldn't expect a fair trial either, unless you have the money to influence the outcome. Apart from the Brazilian convict who was diagnosed schizophrenic, even before he committed the crime he would die for, the other prisoners knew the consequences, but I would have thought a mature nation would have shown mercy and not use human life to shift attention from a weak, inconsistent, failing government. They didn't and they won't in the future. There are foreign nationals from eighteen different countries on death row in Indonesia, including the UK and all are slated for execution this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Some interesting points made, which have made me revisit my own views. That said, far too many concentrate on the fate of criminals, rather than their victims. Just a little odd. I think some see those that were executed as victims. I don't personally, they were complicit in an activity that is punishable by death in that part of the world. We know that justice is seriously flawed in many parts of the world, we know that corruption is rife in many parts of the world and often that is what tempts people into those dark places because they believe that they can exploit corruption and lawlessness to make a few quid. If you choose to follow a path of lawlessness, and i don't mean minor transgressions, but make a conscious effort to pursue a lifestyle that is in blatant disregard for the law of the country you choose to operate in then if you get caught you have to sup your medicine. It doesn't matter if that law is flawed or inconsistent or if the penalty seems unreasonably harsh, it is all about choice. Those that were executed made a conscious choice knowing what the consequence of being caught was, in this instance they chose badly. There are undoubtably some innocent people that get caught up in something not of their own choice, but as a percentage they are in the tiny minority compared to those who choose to do it because they think it can make them a quick buck. Everything happens for a reason, but sometimes that reason is that people just made a stupid decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 i havnt a problem with this.................they have got the English granny to do next......if she gets off it will be followed by some lucritive aid package ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 all of our thoughts on this execution is irrelivant in indonesia it is well known that drug smuggling carries the death penalty its there country and there laws ( corrupt or not) simple dont smuggle drugs in a country that will shoot you if you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 He has a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The only reason I do not support the death penalty is that just occasionally, there is a miscarriage of justice and an innocent person is put to death. However, in a world where man was not subject to such fallibility, I would wholeheartedly welcome and support the death penalty for murderers, rapists, drug smugglers and the like. Like Harnser and others, I truly believe not only in punishment, but also in retribution. Those who foist misery on society have no place in it and society would be a better place without them. As far as I'm concerned, drug smugglers and dealers deserve all the retribution society can heap on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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