spiceychilli57 Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Wondered if anybody had any experience with these difficult circumstances. Thankfully im not in this situation myself but it came up in conversation round the dinner table last night. We lamb sheep and run a flock so are used to knowing how to take care of the animals etc. The situation is that our neighbor has some of his sheep on some grass owned by a third party. The agreement we believe is for his animals to keep the grass tidy etc. As both parties have something to gain no money trades hands. The owner of the land was walking next to the field with sheep in, her Labrador dog is chasing the sheep round and round the field, pinning them in the corner, splitting them apart etc. This is not good for the welfare for the sheep at all as you would imagine. The owner does not care in the slightest. If they were pregnant the stress could case a loss of the lambs carried and many other health problems. The law allows farmers to shoot a dog if it is worrying livestock. The law also says firearms have to be used on land where permission has been given. In this circumstance can the farmer still shoot the dog even though its not his land? What about if the sheep were grazing on common land? Farmers Weekly wrote a interesting article on it which explains a lot of points very clearly but doesnt cover ground not owned by the farmer. http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/your-legal-rights-on-shooting-dogs-on-your-land.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Surely in such a circumstance the owner of the sheep would pull them from the land , because if he shoots the landowners dog he is most likely going to have to find them some where else anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Pretty stupid owner if they allow their dog to do this anywhere. The farmer should have a word with her about how serious it is and if the dog gets off the property doing it somewhere else then there is a high possibility that it wont be coming home from patrol. And that the ewes are been put into a high possibility of aborting the young and that they can / will die. Surely this will ring a bell with any woman. I personally wouldn't shoot a dog of anyone's but I would either catch it or follow it back home and read the riot act to the owner informing them in no mistaken term of the seriousness of this and once more will be Rovers last AND that they will be getting a hefty bill for the losses and cost. I still wouldn't shoot it but they wouldn't know that but he might go on holiday somewhere. The owner is at fault. Edited December 9, 2015 by fortune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie&bezza Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 If her attitude stinks and doesn't care less then if the law is in your favour then personally I'd shoot the dog. Plus it makes it easy for her husband to know what to get her for xmas, a new dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 In this case it's probably best not to shoot the dog. If it was a member of the public and the dog was worrying the sheep then fair enough I'd shoot but if you don't want to lose the grazing then you can't just shoot her dog. Our neighbour was in this exact position a couple of years ago. They were grazing a field 100yds from their farm that beloved to the other neighbour. His cattle dogs had been seen a couple of times looking menacingly at the sheep. I finally caught them one afternoon running the ewes about. The neighbour went straight round and told the other farmer in no uncertain terms to get the dogs under control. The one that had been the worst offender was gone the next day. By law they could have got me to shoot it whilst it was in the process of attacking these sheep but it would have caused ww3 in the village. We've got another neighbour who has been warned about his lurcher (they're poodle fanciers but took pity on a lurcher pup in a dog rescue place) they haven't kicked it's **** for looking at sheep and haven't cottoned on to it being a sight hound. Being a saluki/bull/grey mix it's a big ****** and he'd make a mess of a sheep so I fully expect a phone call in the next 12 months to look out for a dog worrying sheep. The farmer needs to have a word with her and ince the tips are finished doing their job find a few of his nastiest ones and turn them out there and see how the Labrador fares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiceychilli57 Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 The law is in the farmers favour of shooting a dog worrying sheep on ground the farmer owns or has permission, i dont know how it stands using a firearm if you dont own the ground or its common land ie public. If it was our sheep you would of found my old man chasing the dog round the field himself with steam coming out of his ears then the rams in there the next day if the dog managed to escape the red faced farmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Nuts Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Regardless of whether its legal or not, I don't think it wise for him to shoot the dog what with everything negative surrounding firearms in the media at present. To the untrained member of the public reading a "man shoots dog" headline its just another reason for the anti's to get on at us. Surely there is an alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 First thing to do . Speak to the woman. If he shoots on land he has not permission ,it is armed trespass . Best off to shoot the woman . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 really??..a dumb post sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiceychilli57 Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Think theres some wrong end of the stick being grabbed here. I dont imagine our neighbor is going to shoot the woman's dog, we all know that would be the last thing anybody wants. I asked regarding the law of discharging a firearm on property you dont own even when being used in line with the law of guarding livestock. If anybody knew of any cases of it happening. First thing to do .Speak to the woman.If he shoots on land he has not permission ,it is armed trespass .Best off to shoot the woman . Ok thank you. I didnt think armed trespass was a thing in the uk as we dont have trespass laws as such? really??..a dumb post sir. and i could respond to that the same. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 my post was i relation to the previous post saying shoot the lady.......... we certainly do have armed trespass,and you categorically cannot discharge a firearm where you do not have the land owners permission for whatever purpose. surely the answer is go talk to the land owner and ask her why she is letting her dog worry the sheep having granted the right to graze seems bizarre....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 We do have trespass laws in the UK. Equally, shooting a dog is an offense and the dogs owner may sue you for damages in court. However, having said that, if the dog is shot whilst in the act and you are able to prove that it was indeed worrying the sheep, you defense would be that you were protecting your livestock. In this case the best option is to remove the sheep and send them a bill for any damage done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 rent some other field and let her buy a lawnmower.or grow a pair and let her know the facts if any livestock lost bill her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Never found it difficult at all. Three I sorted. The fourth of never got a shot off, I could not get close enough for the Bess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 A friend shot a dog that was worrying his sheep on his land.The dog had injured three that had to be destroyed and a further seven lost their lambs due to this attack.The dog owner caused a lot of trouble over this and it took months of arguments between solicitors and police for him to keep his sgc.So be careful if you take such action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I used to know a farmer, that when he shot a dog that was worrying or chasing livestock on his land, would just bury it and say nothing. He commented that to try and take the owner to court, that's if the owner could be traced, would cost him more that than the value of the stock he lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I used to know a farmer, that when he shot a dog that was worrying or chasing livestock on his land, would just bury it and say nothing. He commented that to try and take the owner to court, that's if the owner could be traced, would cost him more that than the value of the stock he lost. Very law abiding of him !, he deserves to be prosecuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I suspect most just get put in a big hole and nothing more is said and that's maybe for the best Law says it must be reported within 24 hours to the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Very law abiding of him !, he deserves to be prosecuted. I think he is a realist. People who have done differently have had issues far greater than a criminal record and still lost thier lambing season or breeding stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Surely in such a circumstance the owner of the sheep would pull them from the land , because if he shoots the landowners dog he is most likely going to have to find them some where else anyway. This is the commonsense solution, why put yourself in the position of having to shoot the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Really u need to sort out his daft Mrs. In some areas wintering grass can be hard to find. So ideally do it without upseting them, but u would be doing them a favour wot good is a stock worrying dog in the country? But if ur the farmer/owner of the sheep u can enter that field and shoot the land owners dog. Wether or not u have permission or shooting rights, U have the right to protect ur stock. As long as u have followed the law/guidlines u should be fine althou it may be a funny situation for a while When i was a boy i was under orders to shoot the lanowners and his sister dogs on sight if i ever got the chance (even then knew it was illegal) So far thsat landowner has 6 dogs i know of been shot by various neighbouring farmers/keepers over last 30 years. Some folk never learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 You cannot enter someone else's land with any type of firearm or shotgun much less discharge it without the land owners permission, I think that would be a quick route to have a stint at her majesty's pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Geordie Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Surely a civil discussion over a coffee at either parties house, would be beneficial to both! Simply ASK that she take control, and responsibility of her animal, and the consequence of any action taken by the Dog! Tell her straight! If a ewe is to terminate, or if the ewe tips over! She will either get the vets bill, or the bill for the ewe, lamb, and disposal fees. You could look at getting a really aggressive ram! I think once the dog in on the receiving end of that! It may think twice in future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Surely a civil discussion over a coffee at either parties house, would be beneficial to both! Simply ASK that she take control, and responsibility of her animal, and the consequence of any action taken by the Dog! Tell her straight! If a ewe is to terminate, or if the ewe tips over! She will either get the vets bill, or the bill for the ewe, lamb, and disposal fees. You could look at getting a really aggressive ram! I think once the dog in on the receiving end of that! It may think twice in future! Its not a great idea to leave a tup in with your ewes and also think of the value of that animal, let alone the chance of it being damaged or killed by a dog you have the very real threat of theft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 You cannot enter someone else's land with any type of firearm or shotgun much less discharge it without the land owners permission, I think that would be a quick route to have a stint at her majesty's pleasure. No u can't just walk on to any land BUT ur not. If u have stock on u can, u have a legal right to protect ur stock wherever it is grazing. Ur not just some random walking on to random land. When u have the shooting rights u can let anyone on u want as u are now the 'occupier' It will be similar if u are grazing the land too, generally tennent farmers have the right to allow on 'authourised people' to control rabbits/pigeons and sometimes foxes even when shooting is sub let, althou most shooting leases are different. If a dog is genuinely worrying ur stock which is legally grazing the the field and u have tried every other method and the attack is continuining/imminant u are entitled to shoot it. But it should be a lst resort as often there will be fallout , esp in this case. As with anything legal etc, read and understand the law urself and phone BASC so ur not relying on internet lawyers advice Really in this case it would be far better to sort it out peacefully, but don't threaten to shoot a dog as that is illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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